evaporation of ethyl alcohol in flavors

[MarkyD]

We know that many of the flavors we use contain ethyl alcohol, and when we use these in our brews the first thing to do is let it evaporate off. Wouldnt it make sense to let as much of this evaporate from the flavors themselves first, before it ever makes it into the resulting recipe? I tried it with a couple strong ethyl-smelling flavors that I never really liked, with the normal bottle-burping/shaking that I normally do with juice, and indeed over 48 hours, they have mellowed and smell a lot more like the flavor theyre supposed to represent than the pungeant smell of alcohol. I marked the level of liquid in the flavors beforehand and not a lot, if any, quantity has been lost so far. Wouldnt this shorten steeping times of recipes, or is there a pressing reason for the alcohol to remain in the flavors until mixing time?

 

[Levitas]

Well, with my limited experience with these things, I'd maybe say that the ethyl alcohol is the base, or carrier of the flavoring, right? So, to allow it to evaporate (keeping the lid off), wouldn't that also allow the flavoring itself to evaporate as well?

Granted, the alcohol will likely evaporate at a faster pace than the ingredient itself. But it's to my understanding that the carrier is there so that the flavoring can be transported. After the flavoring has melded with the other ingredients in the blend, i.e. glycerin, propylene glycol, then perhaps there stands a chance that the flavoring will not evaporate as quickly if the bottle was left un-capped? I'm not certain. But that's just my guess.

One thing to consider: If the flavoring is utilizing the alcohol as a mode of transport, what happens to the flavoring if the alcohol is all gone (evaporated pre-mix)?

 

[MarkyD]

I see your point. I thought the PG was the carrier, its a double-alcohol solvent itself. It was my (perhaps misinformed) understanding that the ethyl was there as a byproduct of the flavor extraction process.

 

[Levitas]

Hmm, interesting counter-point. I wasn't aware that it also had PG in the ingredients as well. I was, of course, assuming that the ethyl alcohol was the only base present (as I know some flavorings utilize this practice for those who are PG-sensitive).

Either way, you can always give it a shot! The best way to find these things out is to try them out first hand. You said that you didn't really care for some of the flavorings anyways (due to that nasty alcohol taste), so perhaps there isn't much to lose to try and keep a bottle out over night with the lid omitted?

I'm sure others would benefit from such an experiment

 

[MarkyD]

I know I dont like vaping ethyl, although I have heard others say it adds something to throat hit. Ill leave them open a few more days.

 

[retired1]

I thought the alcohol was a primary ingredient in the extraction of the flavor rather than being a carrier.

 

[Levitas]

I thought the alcohol was a primary ingredient in the extraction of the flavor rather than being a carrier.

If it's the primary ingredient in the extraction process, wouldn't that make it the carrier?

 

[MarkyD]

That was my understanding as well, like soaking cigars in vodka. Once the flavor is extracted from whatever organic material it comes from it gets diluted and carried by whatever base its solved in (pg/vg in this case). So the ethyl has no business being there after its extraction work is done. Maybe im missing something, but it seems "pre-steeping" flavors by ethyl evaporation could lead to brews that were more likely to be insta-vapes.

 

[retired1]

If it's the primary ingredient in the extraction process, wouldn't that make it the carrier?

That is true as well. Bear in mind, I'm an old fart and it's been decades since I've even cracked a chemistry book.

 

[Levitas]

That was my understanding as well, like soaking cigars in vodka. Once the flavor is extracted from whatever organic material it comes from it gets diluted and carried by whatever base its solved in (pg/vg in this case). So the ethyl has no business being there after its extraction work is done. Maybe im missing something, but it seems "pre-steeping" flavors by ethyl evaporation could lead to brews that were more likely to be insta-vapes.

But that's what I was saying in my original post - if you're extracting the flavoring via alcohol, what is the flavoring being carried by? The alcohol, right? Until you've mixed the extraction in a pg/vg base, the alcohol is the carrier. Thus why I asked what would happen if you completely evaporated the alcohol prior to mixing it in a different base?

That is true as well. Bear in mind, I'm an old fart and it's been decades since I've even cracked a chemistry book.

Believe me, I'm by no means an expert on the topic. I'm just giving guesses based on what seems logical.

 

[MarkyD]

I know that with tobacco extraction (with eg vodka) most of the alcohol evaporates off during days of slow-cooking. It must be that last little bit that is so difficult to get rid of, but these concentrated flavors sure seem to have a lot of it remaining for whatever reason. I extracted tobacco in the past and after it was done, it smelled like tobacco. Dulce de Leche smells like anything but... but now that its sat open for 2 days it smells, well, kinda vanillay and creamy, though some alcohol smell does remain, its not nearly as bad as when I got it.

 

[retired1]

I have a few samples that I acquired yesterday that are rather overpowering with a nasty undertone which I suspect is the alcohol used in the flavor extraction process. They're setting with the caps off and I'm going to try one tonight to see if there's an improvement.

I don't think allowing the alcohol to evaporate would affect the primary flavor at all. We'll find out later today.

 

[michaelsil1]

I've tried Extracting in just PG and the problem is the PG or VG takes on the Plant Matter (this burns coils quickly) if you add Alcohol to this method the Alcohol will extract and keep the PG from absorbing the Plant Matter. Unfortunately I haven't tested the latest batch, but it almost worked in the last one I tried. Sorry if this is somewhat off topic.

 

[Harlen]

Hello all
For me when I mix my juice I let them steep a day and then put them in the ultrasonic with warm water and buzz it for 10 minuets .
With the tops off ,this gets a lot of the alcohol out .Brings the flavor way up .
Good juice .

This works for me

 

[MarkyD]

My thinking is that some of the same techniques we use to steep our brews can be used to help flavors before theyre ever mixed. Caps off for another day or two here too. The concern was something Levitas brought up, in that other highly-evaporative flavor molecules (desirable ones) could be lost in the process. This might be more true for certain flavors more or less than others.

 

[Dave_in_OK]

I have a cigar extract that I did in PG and Vodka to test if the Vodka would extract more flavor. I then took 12ml of the vodka extract and added 12ml of PG to it and have left the cap off to allow the vodka to evaporate in the slow cooker with six other tests. This should be ready to test tonight and I'll post my results here.

 

[retired1]

Welp, after 24 hours of airing, I am glad to say the Root Beer Float is awesomely tasty in the RSST. Last night I almost gagged because of the alcohol taste to it.

 

[MarkyD]

Welp, after 24 hours of airing, I am glad to say the Root Beer Float is awesomely tasty in the RSST. Last night I almost gagged because of the alcohol taste to it.

Mine are as well, the ethyl is nearly completely gone from them, and the resulting brew tastes better than juice made with unevaporated flavors thats over 2 weeks old. Both flavors also went through the most amazing color change, exactly the same as matured juice does, turning a deep, rich version of their original colors. While oxidation might not be a good thing for something such as nicotine base, it seems that evaporation+oxides=yum when it comes to flavors.

 

[Dave_in_OK]

Finished by cigar test - I was able to evaporate the vodka and replace it with PG. Then compared the two cigar mixtures the vodka extracted flavor is stronger and has no vodka aroma or taste.

 

[Levitas]

Finished by cigar test - I was able to evaporate the vodka and replace it with PG. Then compared the two cigar mixtures the vodka extracted flavor is stronger and has no vodka aroma or taste.

So you extracted one in vodka, then added pg to it after evaporating for some time, right? What did you extract with the other, just straight pg? Am I reading that right?