Evolv-ing Thread

[awsum140]

Vendors either based in or with a large presence in the US will have to adapt to whatever regulations come along. Having a removable battery is not much of a guarantee considering how many of the "E-cig horror stories" are related to a battery being in a metal container or a pocket full of keys and change. The battery would need to be permanently affixed and an electrical disconnect would also need to be present to make it as safe as possible. Protection inside the battery would also be a good idea, but how practical that would be while keeping things small is a whole other story.

Willie, keep in min that istick has to be at least as tall as an18650 plus a few mm for the top and bottom caps as well as being at least 19mm internal diameter plus the thickness of the body, doubled of course. For an "outside" mod I love my Invader Mini. Relatively small, water resistant, dust resistant and shock resistant. Heck, I vape in the shower with it!

 

[BillW50]

For an "outside" mod I love my Invader Mini. Relatively small, water resistant, dust resistant and shock resistant. Heck, I vape in the shower with it!

I loved my first Invader Mini so much, I wanted all of the four colors they came in. But damn them, I had a complete collection and they came out with four more colors. So I fixed them, I bought four more and I still have a complete collection.

 

[mikepetro]

What safety do these batteries have that are inbuilt then? The only thing i see is that they are correctly labelled and matched to the loads they are supposed to deal with.

Notice all the extra circuitry in a typical Craftsman battery pack. They didnt just solder a bunch of 18650s together be done with it. That circuitry monitors the battery against over/under voltage, over current, over heat, dead short, over charge, etc. Pretty much any major tool or laptop battery pack will have something equivalent to this. Even cellphone batteries have these circuits built into them.

Nobody using an IPhone expects to get 70W from it!

Very true, but even IPhone batteries have battery protection circuits built into them. Dont get stuck on cellphones though, there are multitudes of other Consumer Electronic devices out there that do pull 70+ watts. And they, for the most part, have built in battery protection. Power tools, laptops, Lawnmowers, Electric bikes, Wheelchairs, Drones, Robotics, etc.

I'll leave the protected v unprotected thing alone, since we were told that it was 'safer chemistry yanno' and therefore safer than before.

IMRs are safer that older tech, but "best practice" on ANY power supply would be to protect it against major smoke creating events.

 

[fishwater]

Let me know what you think, I'm thinking it might be handy for when I'm out mowing the lawn and need a small pocket mod. Looking at that pic again, I think they either doctored that photo to make it look smaller then it is or they found someone with very large hands.

I have one & it's small, the cap sits on the 18650 so the mod itself can be smaller. It's a great little pocket mod & I'm not listing over the Xvostick anymore since recieving it.

 

[supertrunker]

i agree with everything you say Mike, and you have certainly a lot more experience than i do with batteries like LIPOs etc than me and every other average individual.

But none of your protected devices, wheelchairs, drones and so on hit the price point that vapers will pay for a vaping device. They also require special battery chargers and a level of expertise and attention that is not going to happen.

It's not as if there's not the information out there, some people have been banging on about battery safety for years.

T

 

[mikepetro]

i agree with everything you say Mike, and you have certainly a lot more experience than i do with batteries like LIPOs etc than me and every other average individual.

But none of your protected devices, wheelchairs, drones and so on hit the price point that vapers will pay for a vaping device. They also require special battery chargers and a level of expertise and attention that is not going to happen.

It's not as if there's not the information out there, some people have been banging on about battery safety for years.

T

Someone recently told me:
"You can take a horse to water, but cant make him think"

That very much applies here. The people blowing up their mods/faces/hands and making headlines clearly did NOT choose to educate themselves, even though the information is out there. Their Bad.....

The problem is that these are the people who are making the headlines that is threatening my right to vape the way I want to. Heck they are trying to pass an amendment now prohibiting ANY ecig on an airplane, whether checked or carry on. Going on an airplane, you have to leave all your ecigs at home!

As for cost, think about it, they build these circuits into virtually every cellphone battery out there. With mass production the cost comes down. Sure, circuitry capable of handling higher current is more expensive, but it can be done cost effectively. Personally, I would like to see minum standards "requiring" battery protection on all vaping devices. Most respectable regulated devices, especially DNAs, have it now anyway. Even the bottom of the line $30 DNA board has it!

Sorry, but I dont see where the ever so common cordless Craftsman drill requires special battery training, the safety is built in to make it more/less idiot proof.

 

[supertrunker]

Vapers are nothing like as ubiquitous as cellphone owners, so i'm not quite sure where your benefits of mass production is going to work, unless as Steamer says, you limit the market to one safe battery mod fits all.

Which would be fine, except here. Your example of drill batteries is just what i said above - matching a battery to a load.

What you really want is to outlaw anything but regulated mods and that's hardly surprising, since those are what you choose to use.

I'd really like to see some numbers for people killed (zero) or verified injured caused by battery failure, rather than their own stupidity in overstressing them.
At some point there's a reasonable expectation of people assuming some personal responsibility.

T

 

[VapingBad]

Battery safety has been a marketing positive for ProVape and Evolv, I think many vapers will pay a small premium for improved safety. Sadly I don't think that would even reach 25% ATM, too many just buy then newest cheap mod and end up silly numbers of them or are just not aware if the issues.

 

[mikepetro]

Non-regulated devices can have battery protection as well, (think fuses) the average one simply doesnt. Yes, I think they are among the most dangerous mods out there, but safety comes with education, and those who educate themselves should be fine. Problem is that NOTHING requires anyone to educate themselves first, and many people simply wont be bothered. I see our biggest challenge in trying to protect the new user, the one who doesnt know an ohm from an Amp, but he wants to quit smoking, and he wants the most powerful device he can find. How do we protect that individual? 50% of people wont even read the instructions, let alone about battery safety.

There are a multitude of different capacity C3 batteries out there, and all of them fit the same tools. Besides, whats wrong with matching a battery to a load. Some people like 18500s, other like lipos. I just think they BOTH should be protected.

See Appendix I in this for 3 pages of headlines that generate public hysteria against vaping:
https://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/electronic_cigarettes.pdf
Its actually a decent appraisal of ecigs considering it was issued by the government.

It doesnt matter whether it was "stupidity" or hardware failure. The press gets a hold of it and sensationalizes it. Then politicians jump on the bandwagon trying to restrict it. Safety need to be inherent in order to minimize the Headlines..........

 

[Steamer861]

Battery safety has been a marketing positive for ProVape and Evolv, I think many vapers will pay a small premium for improved safety. Sadly I don't think that would even reach 25% ATM, too many just buy then newest cheap mod and end up silly numbers of them or are just not aware if the issues.

Sadly This is the issue! If given a choice most people will buy the inferior cheeper product
These are the people we see on YT. To make it safe 100%, you can't give them a choice!
A standardized Safe mod/battery is the way to go
No one wants to take away anyones freedom to choose but unfortunately, some new blanket regulation has to come to light to stop the battery venting. Education only works on the educated

 

[sabre66]

Sadly This is the issue! If given a choice most people will buy the inferior cheeper product
These are the people we see on YT. To make it safe 100%, you can't give them a choice!
A standardized Safe mod/battery is the way to go
No one wants to take away anyones freedom to choose but unfortunately, some new blanket regulation has to come to light to stop the battery venting. Education only works on the educated

HEAR HEAR

 

[tiburonfirst]

I'll put it through the paces and report back


Sent from my SM-G900T3 using Tapatalk

and see if the dna75 chip might fit in there!

 

[BillW50]

Sadly This is the issue! If given a choice most people will buy the inferior cheeper product
These are the people we see on YT. To make it safe 100%, you can't give them a choice!
A standardized Safe mod/battery is the way to go
No one wants to take away anyones freedom to choose but unfortunately, some new blanket regulation has to come to light to stop the battery venting. Education only works on the educated

Oh come on! Complainning to the vaping manufactures and having them to fold and give into customers is one thing and I support it. Get the government involved and it is guaranteed to get worse for everyone. And the first thing they will do is to tax the hell out of it before they do anything else.

 

[mikepetro]

I agree that the government just messes things up most of the time. The problem is, that the ship has already sailed. Its the wild woolly west out there, with some vendors bringing absolute junk to the market.


I would love to see something akin to a vape equivalent of a "UL" (maybe VL) rating. 100% voluntary. Then, when the headlines break, the question could be asked "was it VL rated"? This in turn puts pressure on the consumer to shop smart.... "well, you SHOULD have looked for the rating"!

 

[supertrunker]

A standardized Safe mod/battery is the way to go

No it's not because nobody would spend money on it. Because it smells of under-powered compromise already, when what we really need is better education for people trying to use high powered vapes that really ought not to be.

Look at anything in the vaping world, from tanks to batteries to devices to ...
One size does not fit all and freedom of choice involves freedom to make mistakes.


T

 

[Steamer861]

I agree that the government just messes things up most of the time. The problem is, that the ship has already sailed. Its the wild woolly west out there, with some vendors bringing absolute junk to the market.


I would love to see something akin to a vape equivalent of a "UL" (maybe VL) rating. 100% voluntary. Then, when the headlines break, the question could be asked "was it VL rated"? This in turn puts pressure on the consumer to shop smart.... "well, you SHOULD have looked for the rating"!

Well said Mike We need help right now! It don't take a genius to see, these venting videos and some heavy handed Influence from BT and were Dead! Vaping becomes a safety issue and gets Banned nation wide Again maybe a little pessimistic But stranger things have happened.

 

[Steamer861]

No it's not because nobody would spend money on it. Because it smells of under-powered compromise already, when what we really need is better education for people trying to use high powered vapes that really ought not to be.

Look at anything in the vaping world, from tanks to batteries to devices to ...
One size does not fit all and freedom of choice involves freedom to make mistakes.


T

It don't have to be an under powered compromise. Just a safer battery and no choice in the matter.
An E-cig approved cell,( UL & CSA approved) one that may fail but wont hurt any one of it does
We don't have the luxury to make mistakes that can comprise the safety of the uneducated.
We, the vaping community have been walking on egg shells since the beginning. BT is breathing down the governments neck to get rid of Us. These venting videos are the fuel they need to start the fire that burns Us out!

 

[mikepetro]

Alas, you cant force education upon people. How many high school droupouts do we have every year, how many who got a diploma that can barely read?

If a bunch of stupid people keep falling into Niagara Falls because they got too close to the edge, sooner or later someone is going to put up a guardrail.

I deal with OSHA junk all the time at work. A healthy portion of it is simply protecting stupid people from themselves.....

 

[supertrunker]

Just a safer battery and no choice in the matter.

So only one battery on sale then?

Let's stop one second here and think about the damage that smoking does and the damage that venting batteries do.

T

 

[mikepetro]

So only one battery on sale then?

Let's stop one second here and think about the damage that smoking does and the damage that venting batteries do.

T

Very valid point, but.......
The FDA etc doesnt think that logically....