As a small business owner (I manufacture home baked, organic pet treats) I completely understand your worries. Cell's suggestions ( disclaimer and taking approved out ) should go a long way in relieving ECF of liability. Some of the retailers might not like it, but advertising on ECF will still make them stand out above the rest.
Exploding mods: the feedback thread
- Thread starter rolygate
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Come to think of it, I don't think it's been very often that an attorney has told a client, "You know what? It would be stupid to sue."
I think if you read the battery mod section it`s pretty clear on what and what not to do.
Vent holes covered = Check
Protected batteries = Check
Then it`s a great place to ask what if. Plenty of knowledge in here to receive in what`s safe and not safe.
What brings this on anyhow? Where are these accident reports?
Just dropping a safe device could make it unsafe with only one 3 foot drop possible less..
A motorcycle Helmet is unsafe once dropped actually.
User error can`t be stopped by this forum. People do stupid things daily. There are safety guidelines that need followed.
Since the mod suppliers are not making their own batteries you can`t say where they get them. To say they are going to sell good batteries is a little far out there.
They are going to get them from the same place most do.
I had a battery go bad. And it was who`s fault but my own. It got a small cut in the cover when I was fitting the U. V. O. mod I made to receive the battery.
Advancement in things come at a cost some times so what should we do say oh no we can`t advance no more someone might get hurt?
I understand the dangers of mods but I think the safety issue is pretty covered here already. Be smart in what you do think ahead and read up on things and don`t be afraid to ask questions.
And if the lawsuit idea is a issue with ECF then has these E-Cigs been proven safe. Are they not concerned if they are found bad they could be held responsible? Just seems like the same logic behind this thinking.
Vent holes covered = Check
Protected batteries = Check
Then it`s a great place to ask what if. Plenty of knowledge in here to receive in what`s safe and not safe.
What brings this on anyhow? Where are these accident reports?
Just dropping a safe device could make it unsafe with only one 3 foot drop possible less..
A motorcycle Helmet is unsafe once dropped actually.
User error can`t be stopped by this forum. People do stupid things daily. There are safety guidelines that need followed.
Since the mod suppliers are not making their own batteries you can`t say where they get them. To say they are going to sell good batteries is a little far out there.
They are going to get them from the same place most do.
I had a battery go bad. And it was who`s fault but my own. It got a small cut in the cover when I was fitting the U. V. O. mod I made to receive the battery.
Advancement in things come at a cost some times so what should we do say oh no we can`t advance no more someone might get hurt?
I understand the dangers of mods but I think the safety issue is pretty covered here already. Be smart in what you do think ahead and read up on things and don`t be afraid to ask questions.
And if the lawsuit idea is a issue with ECF then has these E-Cigs been proven safe. Are they not concerned if they are found bad they could be held responsible? Just seems like the same logic behind this thinking.
Thanks for the comments and criticism, it's what is needed.
The first thing that arises from this is that there seems to be some sort of view that ECF wants to control things. We don't and we don't even want to get into that kind of thing. This is an online community, why would we want to start making laws?
Secondly, because there are no hard facts, and a multitude of conflicting opinions, it's all up for debate. We certainly don't know why mods catch fire since we aren't a research lab and have no facilities to determine those issues. But there is some basic logic involved though: the use of an under-rated on/off switch and unprotected batteries seems a bad idea. What we need is some consensus of opinion on what we should be advising members to do or not do. If you think we should keep quiet on this whole subject, then that is a valid opinion, but one we probably can't support.
Then there is the legal area. I think it's just hilarious that everyone and his dog is now giving me advice on State, Federal and International law. It's all welcome and it's all grist to the mill, but I don't think we ought to take any of it seriously. It's no more relevant than if I get web advice on neurosurgery; probably best to consult a professional. Problem is, that would mean a professional in at least two countries. And since lawyers don't agree, I would still have to take the safe route. If you are licensed to practice law in Illinois, or England, or Canada even - then I will listen carefully to your advice. Otherwise - please!
As regards banning mods or even suppliers from ECF, that would be the last option and only taken under definite legal advice. It's too far to go without concrete proof that it is needed (ie case law examples). But the possibility is there, especially when no two modders will agree on what needs to be done.
@Nuck
@Toby
No, we don't have a battery safety page, and we should have one.
However I think it's also a good idea to make devices to a basic foolproof standard because this is the right way.
People don't and won't read good advice, or they forget it.
@Keyzygirl
I've been told by a lawyer that we cannot disclaim liability though. In other words, if you are liable, you cannot dismiss that by having a "We're not liable" notice. But having warning notices in unmissable places is a different matter.
@Sudokugal
Some very pertinent points, thank you. But again I have to repeat that ECF doesn't want to regulate anything anywhere and I really don't know where this is coming from. We can regulate what appears on ECF but I prefer advice, personally. Not sure why people think I'm after Stalin's job, I'm not up to it, sorry.
Every single thing that we do anywhere anytime always generates criticism. It is absolutely impossible to do anything on ECF that doesn't annoy one of the usergroups. Somehow we have to balance it all, but any given action generates 50 complaints and 2 thank-you's. Here the potential is to multiply that by ten, is all. That doesn't mean we ignore the need to do it.
@ScottEE
@TDstrike
Not too sure what we'll do if the legals tell us to do that, though. Cry, to be sure.
@CellWho
Yes, the legal worries are a big part of it because the forum could get wiped out. But our resources and staff are spread across two continents, so there is no question of a one-country solution. We have to consult in two countries.
But you need to take the advice to members issue seriously too. That's what we do.
@Kimmy
Yes, you are right, the media could have a field day if things turn out badly. Also, the regulators are hovering in the background like vultures. It's worrying to see people saying that we can do whatever we like just now and there won't be any fallout. Very mistaken.
@Deena
That case law is interesting. But what was the outcome?
"...a mod by definition seems to be modified..." I think 'mod' is just a generic name, applied to any and all custom-builds or western-built specials. If supplied direct from the manufacturer as an original product then it would not seem to be modified.
We are referring to units sourced from manufacturers offering large battery-holding devices, that may operate in non-standard modes. What you call that product group does not seem relevant to the other issues. They might be called 'biggies' or 'juice boxes' or 'XL ecigs' or whatever.
There is an issue here regarding user decisions and user operation, but I think it wise to look at the product standards first.
@Martin2277
Yes, the batteries are a big issue. But there are other factors like kill switches and correctly-rated on/off switches. Several switches in kit I have either built or repaired (not ecigs) have failed, sometimes open, sometimes closed. It's a factor because even with protected batteries, an ecig locked on in a purse / handbag for 30 minutes, next to an aerosol can, is not a good thing.
Yes, we don't want to be in the position of approving mods. It's just wrong for any number of reasons.
@Dacoopah
For sure, on most of your points. But there are all sorts of issues here, not just the legal thing. For one, I'm tired of the modders running away from this as if it didn't exist.
@PlanetScribbles
I support your point of view because it is my personal one.
But when money and law come into it, those opinions go out the window. Ten thousand people can write that they have the right to do what they want, and it doesn't mean a darn thing. What matters is what gets forced onto us by the big guys. Yes, in London we don't need to worry so much because it's still the case here that if a person puts a gun to their head and pulls the trigger, they don't get to sue the gun manufacturer. But it might be different in the US where our site is hosted. And it might be different still in the State where our server is.
Of course it is the sane and reasonable point of view that your actions determine your fate. But in some places, it is allowable to sue others for your own mistakes. And to be honest, this is a modern trend that is growing every day. Nobody is responsible for their own actions now, it's always someone else's fault, didn't you know?
The first thing that arises from this is that there seems to be some sort of view that ECF wants to control things. We don't and we don't even want to get into that kind of thing. This is an online community, why would we want to start making laws?
Secondly, because there are no hard facts, and a multitude of conflicting opinions, it's all up for debate. We certainly don't know why mods catch fire since we aren't a research lab and have no facilities to determine those issues. But there is some basic logic involved though: the use of an under-rated on/off switch and unprotected batteries seems a bad idea. What we need is some consensus of opinion on what we should be advising members to do or not do. If you think we should keep quiet on this whole subject, then that is a valid opinion, but one we probably can't support.
Then there is the legal area. I think it's just hilarious that everyone and his dog is now giving me advice on State, Federal and International law. It's all welcome and it's all grist to the mill, but I don't think we ought to take any of it seriously. It's no more relevant than if I get web advice on neurosurgery; probably best to consult a professional. Problem is, that would mean a professional in at least two countries. And since lawyers don't agree, I would still have to take the safe route. If you are licensed to practice law in Illinois, or England, or Canada even - then I will listen carefully to your advice. Otherwise - please!
As regards banning mods or even suppliers from ECF, that would be the last option and only taken under definite legal advice. It's too far to go without concrete proof that it is needed (ie case law examples). But the possibility is there, especially when no two modders will agree on what needs to be done.
@Nuck
Yes, we need that sticky, maybe in more than one place. But we have a kind of rule, 'People don't read the stickies', so probably something more would need to be done.
This covers most situations I guess, but what about a high-quality 3.7 volt mod, with protected batteries but no kill switch, kept in a purse, that gets locked on due to pressure on the switch? I think there is a fire risk here. I simply don't believe that everyone pulls the atty or the batts for transport. Yes it's user error, but if you just fit a kill switch, it becomes very much easier to make the device safe and very much harder to sue the supplier.
@Toby
No, we don't have a battery safety page, and we should have one.
However I think it's also a good idea to make devices to a basic foolproof standard because this is the right way.
People don't and won't read good advice, or they forget it.
@Keyzygirl
Yes, I like the idea of some kind of warning and find that preferable to any kind of ban or whatever.
I've been told by a lawyer that we cannot disclaim liability though. In other words, if you are liable, you cannot dismiss that by having a "We're not liable" notice. But having warning notices in unmissable places is a different matter.
@Sudokugal
Some very pertinent points, thank you. But again I have to repeat that ECF doesn't want to regulate anything anywhere and I really don't know where this is coming from. We can regulate what appears on ECF but I prefer advice, personally. Not sure why people think I'm after Stalin's job, I'm not up to it, sorry.
Well, that's one point of view - but I can tell you that progress is already being made as a direct result of this debate. I don't believe in sweeping things under the carpet, I much prefer to get it out in the open and talked about. There are technical issues, ethical issues, legal issues. As far as legal goes, we would need to consult for Illinois, Federal and English law, due to various factors. Web law is not cut and dried yet. On the other hand there are licensed attorneys here already and they might have a view.
Once again - why would we want to regulate anything? There is no mileage in that for us, only a lot of work and a lot of complaints and criticism. Certainly no money, probably less of it... All we need to do is protect ourselves and give correct advice to members. That's all.
Every single thing that we do anywhere anytime always generates criticism. It is absolutely impossible to do anything on ECF that doesn't annoy one of the usergroups. Somehow we have to balance it all, but any given action generates 50 complaints and 2 thank-you's. Here the potential is to multiply that by ten, is all. That doesn't mean we ignore the need to do it.
@ScottEE
Hah! Never thought of that... And this is the reason why a debate is a valid exercise - useful input is generated. Thanks.
@TDstrike
Well, that would be way too far
Not too sure what we'll do if the legals tell us to do that, though. Cry, to be sure.@CellWho
Yes, the legal worries are a big part of it because the forum could get wiped out. But our resources and staff are spread across two continents, so there is no question of a one-country solution. We have to consult in two countries.
But you need to take the advice to members issue seriously too. That's what we do.
Not so. The site and some staff are in the US.
This is essentially correct, the UK does not have the same litigation-happy culture as the US. With a notable exception though: UK libel law is a toilet, unfortunately.
@Kimmy
Yes, you are right, the media could have a field day if things turn out badly. Also, the regulators are hovering in the background like vultures. It's worrying to see people saying that we can do whatever we like just now and there won't be any fallout. Very mistaken.
@Deena
That case law is interesting. But what was the outcome?
"...a mod by definition seems to be modified..." I think 'mod' is just a generic name, applied to any and all custom-builds or western-built specials. If supplied direct from the manufacturer as an original product then it would not seem to be modified.
We are referring to units sourced from manufacturers offering large battery-holding devices, that may operate in non-standard modes. What you call that product group does not seem relevant to the other issues. They might be called 'biggies' or 'juice boxes' or 'XL ecigs' or whatever.
There is an issue here regarding user decisions and user operation, but I think it wise to look at the product standards first.
@Martin2277
Yes, the batteries are a big issue. But there are other factors like kill switches and correctly-rated on/off switches. Several switches in kit I have either built or repaired (not ecigs) have failed, sometimes open, sometimes closed. It's a factor because even with protected batteries, an ecig locked on in a purse / handbag for 30 minutes, next to an aerosol can, is not a good thing.
Yes, we don't want to be in the position of approving mods. It's just wrong for any number of reasons.
@Dacoopah
For sure, on most of your points. But there are all sorts of issues here, not just the legal thing. For one, I'm tired of the modders running away from this as if it didn't exist.
@PlanetScribbles
I support your point of view because it is my personal one.
But when money and law come into it, those opinions go out the window. Ten thousand people can write that they have the right to do what they want, and it doesn't mean a darn thing. What matters is what gets forced onto us by the big guys. Yes, in London we don't need to worry so much because it's still the case here that if a person puts a gun to their head and pulls the trigger, they don't get to sue the gun manufacturer. But it might be different in the US where our site is hosted. And it might be different still in the State where our server is.
Of course it is the sane and reasonable point of view that your actions determine your fate. But in some places, it is allowable to sue others for your own mistakes. And to be honest, this is a modern trend that is growing every day. Nobody is responsible for their own actions now, it's always someone else's fault, didn't you know?
every mod in available in europe is being sold Illegally anyway. I bet not one carries the CE mark that is required by law.
CE mark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
CE mark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
the CE mark also means that the manufacturer take sole responsibility of the product. From the forums legal point , it means these products are not the sole legal responsibilty of the manufacturer.
Being as they are advertised here in one form or another , who knows who shares liabilty for any incidents.
Not giving ammo to anyone , just pointing it out.
On the other hand, It also probably means that the consumer hasnt a legal leg to stand on if something goes wrong with the product as it has not been approved for sale.
that's an EU position anyway.
same could be said for e-liquid. The weights and measures act is enforceable in the UK at least. How many times have you bought what you think is 30ml of liquid when really there is only 27ml in there, I know i have.
The whole e-cig scene is a pretty shady place to say the least to be honest.
Being as they are advertised here in one form or another , who knows who shares liabilty for any incidents.
Not giving ammo to anyone , just pointing it out.
On the other hand, It also probably means that the consumer hasnt a legal leg to stand on if something goes wrong with the product as it has not been approved for sale.
that's an EU position anyway.
same could be said for e-liquid. The weights and measures act is enforceable in the UK at least. How many times have you bought what you think is 30ml of liquid when really there is only 27ml in there, I know i have.
The whole e-cig scene is a pretty shady place to say the least to be honest.
Last edited:
Are they not also required to be RoHS compliant to be sold in Europe?
Jan
Edited to add: If they are required to be RoHS compliant, I believe that affected mods would be currently illegally sold in at least California as well.
Last edited:
I didn't realize anything was actually sold on ECF? I understand there are suppliers that support ECF, but nothing that I am aware is sold on ECF. How the heck can ECF be held liable for anything posted here? It's a forum where people post opinions not facts and share information regarding things. The people who actually sell things have their own websites etc don't they. ECF as far as I know, takes donations and sells advert space... am I missing something? I mean can I buy an e-cig, nic juice, batteries, atomizers, or MODs from ECF directly? ummm not that I am aware. Even the classified/trade section is done with another individual, not ECF directly...
Analogy: I belong to several motorcycle forums. MY MOTORCYCLE COULD KILL ME! Yet, they don't ban the mod sections there, now do they. That's because the forum sells not a thing personally that has to do with M/C except advert space.
Please get over this whole mod requirements, deletion of the section, deletion of sellers etc. It is nice to have the "be careful of batteries" or these are the hazards... It ends there.
Oh. Also, BTW... if you alienate your modders and those that follow the modding community, well say goodbye to ECF also. A lot of people will move on.
Your forum, your call.
Analogy: I belong to several motorcycle forums. MY MOTORCYCLE COULD KILL ME! Yet, they don't ban the mod sections there, now do they. That's because the forum sells not a thing personally that has to do with M/C except advert space.
Please get over this whole mod requirements, deletion of the section, deletion of sellers etc. It is nice to have the "be careful of batteries" or these are the hazards... It ends there.
Oh. Also, BTW... if you alienate your modders and those that follow the modding community, well say goodbye to ECF also. A lot of people will move on.
Your forum, your call.
All of the incedents if I recall correctly involved stacked batteries. I would also like to point out they were aslo using battery adapters. I am not going to spew technical jargon about batteries and why they fail. Just putting my .02 cents in there.
Chad
Chad
RoHS bans the placing on the EU market of new electrical and electronic equipment containing more than agreed levels of lead, cadmium, mercury, hexavalent chromium, polybrominated biphenyl (PBB) and polybrominated diphenyl ether (PBDE) flame ......ants.
there is another EU requirement but i dont think it is RoHS..cant think what it was atm.
there is another EU requirement but i dont think it is RoHS..cant think what it was atm.
First off I want to say I absolutely love this forum and what you and the mods have done with it. My arguments are not negative and hopefully you don't see them that way.
My single greatest piece of advice would be to consult a lawyer. He will undoubtedly put you at ease and, if deemed appropriate, draft up any necessary disclaimers.
It is my belief that anything can be dangerous. When you compare the number of exploded batteries and the seriousness of the injuries, to the number of batteries sold, or even the number of mods sold, I would imagine these devices would be deemed at least "relatively safe".
Should these incidents be reported? I hope so, and I hope everyone will continue to report them with as much detail as possible.
Warnings and safe practices should be promoted, but you're never going to be able to force people to use a kill switch or on/off switch either.
Posting speed limits won't keep people from speeding. And when they do, they are liable and they are the ones ticketed.
This board has done a great job educating me on the safety aspects of mods and is hardly guilty of negligence when it comes to reporting other hazards associated with e-cigarettes, liquids, and the modding equipment. Unless the kill switches or on/off switches perform automatically and flawlessly 100% of the time, it's just another lump on an e-cig or another point that can fail. All of these switches will need to be exhaustivesly tested to be deemed safe. And if you make the statement that these mods are now "safe", aren't you now willfully putting yourself in the exact position you don't want to be in?
True, but it will effect design and cost.
Modder's could create a mod that meets your requirements so they can hawk their wares, but then they'll sell whatever they want from their stores. And buyers will still purchase the cooler looking, and cheaper mods from those stores.
Most consumers buy what looks cool and for the lowest cost. If they can't find it here, they will look elsewhere. If this board actually sold hardware and juice, I would agree that you could certainly be found liable for the faulty products that you stand behind. As it is, I haven't found any mod (or even an e-cig) that ECF has endorsed.
Also, there would no longer be a classified section for users to trade or sell their older or unused items, since most would not fit the newly drafted safety criteria.
Recommending protected batteries is far better than demanding that they be used in all devices. Both my wife and I use unprotected 14500's in our mods, not even a fizzle. I would like the option to continue using these batteries in my mods and get them from my mod supplier.
What you describe are measures implemented by governments. They were not made mandatory by the car makers or consumers or discussion boards. This is why a lot of us will take issue with forcing designs and useless features on the majority of consumers who are informed. Most of us have had zero incidents and will likely continue to enjoy relatively safe e-cigs and mods.
This also reminds me of the very familiar "slippery slope" argument. When do you decide how many layers there should be and when do you say enough's enough? What happens if someone cuts themself badly by cleaning their mod's kill-switch? Something that wouldn't be there unless you made it mandatory for sellers. Just something else to think about.
I completely understand that. Sometimes it's best to actually discuss your liability with a lawyer and check his credentials before hiring him.
This is a revenue generating board (or should be from the traffic). I would strongly suggest using at least some of those funds to have a least one lawyer draft up a few disclaimers for you and clearly define the intent of this discussion board as a public forum. It would probably be some of the best money you've spent.
My single greatest piece of advice would be to consult a lawyer. He will undoubtedly put you at ease and, if deemed appropriate, draft up any necessary disclaimers.
It is my belief that anything can be dangerous. When you compare the number of exploded batteries and the seriousness of the injuries, to the number of batteries sold, or even the number of mods sold, I would imagine these devices would be deemed at least "relatively safe".
Should these incidents be reported? I hope so, and I hope everyone will continue to report them with as much detail as possible.
Warnings and safe practices should be promoted, but you're never going to be able to force people to use a kill switch or on/off switch either.
Posting speed limits won't keep people from speeding. And when they do, they are liable and they are the ones ticketed.
This board has done a great job educating me on the safety aspects of mods and is hardly guilty of negligence when it comes to reporting other hazards associated with e-cigarettes, liquids, and the modding equipment. Unless the kill switches or on/off switches perform automatically and flawlessly 100% of the time, it's just another lump on an e-cig or another point that can fail. All of these switches will need to be exhaustivesly tested to be deemed safe. And if you make the statement that these mods are now "safe", aren't you now willfully putting yourself in the exact position you don't want to be in?
True, but it will effect design and cost.
Modder's could create a mod that meets your requirements so they can hawk their wares, but then they'll sell whatever they want from their stores. And buyers will still purchase the cooler looking, and cheaper mods from those stores.
Most consumers buy what looks cool and for the lowest cost. If they can't find it here, they will look elsewhere. If this board actually sold hardware and juice, I would agree that you could certainly be found liable for the faulty products that you stand behind. As it is, I haven't found any mod (or even an e-cig) that ECF has endorsed.
Also, there would no longer be a classified section for users to trade or sell their older or unused items, since most would not fit the newly drafted safety criteria.
Recommending protected batteries is far better than demanding that they be used in all devices. Both my wife and I use unprotected 14500's in our mods, not even a fizzle. I would like the option to continue using these batteries in my mods and get them from my mod supplier.
What you describe are measures implemented by governments. They were not made mandatory by the car makers or consumers or discussion boards. This is why a lot of us will take issue with forcing designs and useless features on the majority of consumers who are informed. Most of us have had zero incidents and will likely continue to enjoy relatively safe e-cigs and mods.
This also reminds me of the very familiar "slippery slope" argument. When do you decide how many layers there should be and when do you say enough's enough? What happens if someone cuts themself badly by cleaning their mod's kill-switch? Something that wouldn't be there unless you made it mandatory for sellers. Just something else to think about.
I completely understand that. Sometimes it's best to actually discuss your liability with a lawyer and check his credentials before hiring him.
This is a revenue generating board (or should be from the traffic). I would strongly suggest using at least some of those funds to have a least one lawyer draft up a few disclaimers for you and clearly define the intent of this discussion board as a public forum. It would probably be some of the best money you've spent.
Roly you say ECF does not want to be a governing body? IMO you are placing yourself in this position by making a standard. I know this that if you start approving mods you place yourself in the position to be sued. IMO if this is happens here you are no longer a discussion forum you have become a governing body. IMO this forum will suffer and so will the members of this community, we need safety but it is not the ECF's place to implement it if it chooses to remain a discussion board. JMO
And we come back to Figure "A" .... NOTHING IS SOLD ON ECF THROUGH THE VENDOR STREAM.
I'm still not entirely sure if you guys are worried about Liability Protection or the actual protection of its users.
RolyGate - You're more concerned with getting sued. SJ - You're more concerned on the safety side (or atleast what I could tell from your posts on the other thread)
You are essentially trying to turn ECF in to a *governing body* Plain and Simple. Unless you want to put up the funding to have Non Partisan MSDS sheets pulled on everything, "appointing" a governing body of nobodies won't get you anywhere fast.
Have a lawyer re-write your T&C's, taking any and all liability away from ECF. Put warning threads up in the necessary area's and leave it at that.
You should be MORE concerned about the liquid being used, than the hardware. 5 or 10 cases of Venting/Exploding mods over the 15,000+ sold ... You are talking .1+% and atleast 90% of those could be attributed to user neglect and/or error.
If you are govern mods, you might as well govern every single part of the industry as nicotine liquid poses a MUCH more dangerous threat than mods...
Yeah, I gathered that
Doesn't make it any more palatable for me though. I use the 'thin end of the wedge' argument a lot, but it is getting more and more relevant in today's world. If the individual keeps accepting the status quo, screaming about it afterwards, after the realization sets in, is pointless. Rules rarely get repealed once written, but they can get sidelined at the consultation stage.
I'd rather be pro-active than reactive.
Since I work for a company that produces electronics equipment that is sold around the globe, I know exactly what RoHS is ... which is why I posed the question. Our equipment falls under an exemption, but, afaik, pv mods would not. The equipment in question would have to be submitted to a lab and destructively tested to determine the levels of the RoHS controlled substances. Only with that report in hand could they be legally sold in at least the EU and California.
Jan
Damn there are tons of People reading and responding to this thread. WHICH indicates that this really hits everyone really close....Everyone has very valid points one way or another... I just want to interject my thoughts....
If what Rol has said that if you ask all the modders questions on the matter you will have just as many different answers,then that would lead me to believe that it would be an impossible task to regulate.... Wouldn't just be either a back and forth on what is approved... or just a continual rejection of every new mod for one reason or another?
Wouldn't you loose a big chunk of your membership if we went this route? I mean I wouldn't want to browse the forum only to see "where can I get an ecig with a blue led" type threads.
I really think the warning is already out.. and no liability should be held.... If it wasn't for the forum... no one would have heard about the incident and got educated on the matter
Batteries are Batteries.... and no matter what device they are used in won't you always have risks? As far as mods being sold... aren't they usually posted and "bragged" about first? and prior the first thought of actually selling them members comment on the flaws or praise the work?
Like many people have said.. we are all adults... and I understand the concern for a possible threat from a whining "victim" But really wouldn't posting warning everywhere be enough to wash your hands off of the matter?
As far as mass manufactured mods... I recent made a purchase and when I received the package in the mail there were like 3 pages warning of the risk of batteries....Sooo if a labeled risk disclaimer is enough to nip this then wouldn't this topic be closed?
If what Rol has said that if you ask all the modders questions on the matter you will have just as many different answers,then that would lead me to believe that it would be an impossible task to regulate.... Wouldn't just be either a back and forth on what is approved... or just a continual rejection of every new mod for one reason or another?
Wouldn't you loose a big chunk of your membership if we went this route? I mean I wouldn't want to browse the forum only to see "where can I get an ecig with a blue led" type threads.
I really think the warning is already out.. and no liability should be held.... If it wasn't for the forum... no one would have heard about the incident and got educated on the matter
Batteries are Batteries.... and no matter what device they are used in won't you always have risks? As far as mods being sold... aren't they usually posted and "bragged" about first? and prior the first thought of actually selling them members comment on the flaws or praise the work?
Like many people have said.. we are all adults... and I understand the concern for a possible threat from a whining "victim" But really wouldn't posting warning everywhere be enough to wash your hands off of the matter?
As far as mass manufactured mods... I recent made a purchase and when I received the package in the mail there were like 3 pages warning of the risk of batteries....Sooo if a labeled risk disclaimer is enough to nip this then wouldn't this topic be closed?
Jan , you obviously know more about RoHS than me , which s pretty much naff all. I just looked at what they test for and apart from the batteries supplied , didn't think a tube with a switch would require RoHS compliance.
I dont know how they test for levels , whether a product is tested as is , or if it's tested whilst being under flame or destruction or what.
- Status
Similar threads
