RESPONSE to RolyGate: Exploding mods - the REAL current situation
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well , no one is %100 sure right now , i keep hearing October... or November... or Jan 2011
I'll be on the West Coast by then. Any excuse to end up in Vegas is good enough for me. Hanging out with a bunch of vapers in Vegas sounds like the best excuse to raise a ruckus and party like a rock star I've heard in a long time!
I'll be on the West Coast by then. Any excuse to end up in Vegas is good enough for me. Hanging out with a bunch of vapers in Vegas sounds like the best excuse to raise a ruckus and party like a rock star I've heard in a long time!
If you really wanna do it right. Party like a washed up rock star, or former child actor. Now they know how to party!!!
The bottom line is... ECF should be very careful about any attempts at regulating or silencing information about mods. I'm sure they are well aware that they aren't the only e-cig forum on the internet. They might be one of the first, and possibly one of the better ones, but if they are prepared to risk that status by trying to be anything more than a discussion board, they might just see their membership dwindle away until they have no choice but to shut down.
I, for one, will not be a member of any forum whose staff take themselves and the role of their forum a bit too seriously. ECF, you are here to provide a forum for discussion of all things e-cig... NOT to shape or manipulate that discussion. Nor are you here to decide for us what devices to use. You're nothing more than a blank sheet of paper for us to scribble on. You risk shrinking your user base beyond repair when you start shrinking that sheet of paper too much.
I'm not "criticizing" the forum... I'm just speculating what would happen under certain circumstances, and letting it be known what the likely result would be under those circumstances. All I'm saying is, ECF, be careful not to throw a banana peel into your own path.
I, for one, will not be a member of any forum whose staff take themselves and the role of their forum a bit too seriously. ECF, you are here to provide a forum for discussion of all things e-cig... NOT to shape or manipulate that discussion. Nor are you here to decide for us what devices to use. You're nothing more than a blank sheet of paper for us to scribble on. You risk shrinking your user base beyond repair when you start shrinking that sheet of paper too much.
I'm not "criticizing" the forum... I'm just speculating what would happen under certain circumstances, and letting it be known what the likely result would be under those circumstances. All I'm saying is, ECF, be careful not to throw a banana peel into your own path.
Agree 100% with ya Steve. But there are some really crafty lawyers out there who can and will take ECF along with the supplier to court for liability damages.
And also agree with Apostle, even a spoon is dangerous in the hands of a trained professional and its the ...... who make this device unsafe.
Buy a cheap multimeter and watch your batteries closely right out of the charger, and right out of the device. If you use pairs keep them labeled and with their mate.
And also agree with Apostle, even a spoon is dangerous in the hands of a trained professional and its the ...... who make this device unsafe.
Buy a cheap multimeter and watch your batteries closely right out of the charger, and right out of the device. If you use pairs keep them labeled and with their mate.
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I think there needs to be more concern for safety.
When I bought my 1st Mod batteries, I didn't know much about them.... other than they charge.
There should be some kind of paper in there stating proper care and stating they can explode.
I didn't have any warning what so ever.
that, in my opinion, didn't seem fair.
-I think we all need to be educated on battery safety.
Sure..... there is risk when you walk across the street. You could get hurt or die.
But there are things you can do to help lower the chance of getting hit.
You are taught, look both ways before you cross the road.
so use a multimeter, check your batteries, and charger as stated above.
I think there need to be a sticky thread at the top of efc about battery safety.
Not to mension if it got worse and someone dies from a battery explosion and its on the national news.....they may blame it on the PV "E-cig" - That may not look good for the vaping community.
--My opinions, but hey, only time will tell whats in store for vaping.
-----------Edit: I say this as a vaper, but with an open mind......we really don't know for sure if vaping is better for you than smoking. But I can say that Personally, I feel better, Breathe better, ect, from vaping and quiting smoking. But we don't know the long term effects for 100% sure.
So people claiming that vaping is better than smoking, you may be correct, but who really knows for sure?
I'm excited to see where vaping is going and whats going to happen. (oh yeah and the politcs of it too) ha
Time will tell.
When I bought my 1st Mod batteries, I didn't know much about them.... other than they charge.
There should be some kind of paper in there stating proper care and stating they can explode.
I didn't have any warning what so ever.
that, in my opinion, didn't seem fair.
-I think we all need to be educated on battery safety.
Sure..... there is risk when you walk across the street. You could get hurt or die.
But there are things you can do to help lower the chance of getting hit.
You are taught, look both ways before you cross the road.
so use a multimeter, check your batteries, and charger as stated above.
I think there need to be a sticky thread at the top of efc about battery safety.
Not to mension if it got worse and someone dies from a battery explosion and its on the national news.....they may blame it on the PV "E-cig" - That may not look good for the vaping community.
--My opinions, but hey, only time will tell whats in store for vaping.
-----------Edit: I say this as a vaper, but with an open mind......we really don't know for sure if vaping is better for you than smoking. But I can say that Personally, I feel better, Breathe better, ect, from vaping and quiting smoking. But we don't know the long term effects for 100% sure.
So people claiming that vaping is better than smoking, you may be correct, but who really knows for sure?
I'm excited to see where vaping is going and whats going to happen. (oh yeah and the politcs of it too) ha
Time will tell.
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If you really wanna do it right. Party like a washed up rock star, or former child actor. Now they know how to party!!!
You mean with $20 toothless pro, fiending for rock, and eventually caught on camera while on the sidewalk, my brown-bagged bottle of Thunderbird in hand, crying over the fact no one cares who I used to be when I thought I mattered? I usually think of partying like a rock star as ending the night with a girl on my arm, both of us smelling like stripper perfume, not knowing where I am or how I got there, and making sure I pass out on my stomach so I don't go out like Hendrix. But it's been long enough that I might take either option at this point...
People can and do take whoever they want to court, it's whether they have a legal leg to stand on or not that's in question. I can't see how they would, but I'm not a lawyer, so I can't be sure. But real good advice, too.
You're right, educating yourself is the only way to make sure you're as safe as possible. The information is all over the place here and elsewhere, and still, some people don't listen or pay attention. They are the real danger at this point, and the rest of us could end up paying for it. Just like when lighters blow up or a cigarette burns a house down (this still happens all the time) when you're not behaving responsibly, you can't hold the exception up as the rule. And you can't hold an individual's mistake and inattentiveness against everyone who shares the same interests.
This happens, and it gets brought up every time there's an issue or question dealing with batteries. But it's always much easier to fall victim to the hysteria or join the witch hunt than it is to keep the facts in mind. The simple fact is it's easier to hold someone else in a position of authority to tell you what's right and wrong, what's acceptable and safe and what's not, than to do the research and make your own decisions about it all. I've never seen an example of a battery in a mod venting that wasn't in some way attributable to user error*, but still, we run around in a panic to 'keep each other safe'. People could take the atomizer off every bit as easily as they could use a kill switch before they put it away, but they often don't. And unless you have a gun to their head, you can't force them to do either option.
This is just another attempt to quell the panic that always ensues, and a chance for ECF to learn how to cover itself in case someone attempts to hold them liable. Frankly, they should have done that long before now. If they did, they would have been all set when this happened, and everything aside from telling BigD they were happy he made it out fine would be a non-issue.
*Even if it does happen completely spontaneously some day, with no user error at all and every precaution taken religiously, I've had batteries in universal remotes and portable CD players pop while sitting undisturbed on the desk. I don't blame the remote or CD player manufacturer. I had more than one Bic pop when I was a smoker, but it was usually my fault for not being careful. Same thing with all the burn marks my clothes and sheets have accrued over all these years. Learn to be responsible, or stay away from them.
Steve.....Well spoken!! I didn't see until now that this had carried over from the general area. Props!!
The Wiz!
The Wiz!No witch hunt, proper education on both sides, I posted an example of a single cell lithium blowing up in a flash light, that wasn't abused. There have been cell phones and dell laptops that have went up, with no user abuse. The common link was cheap batteries from china.
My advice was not to skimp out on buying good batteries, I don't see where you are getting witch hunt from.
To me it seems as if everyone is polarized on this, they either believe e-cigs are deadly because of the li-ion batteries, and seem to not understand the same type of batteries are in things they use every day without ever having a problem, or they believe that every time someone gets hurt, its because of the idiot user. I guess it makes you feel better or safer to think that way.
I don't need a kill switch, but I don't buy my batteries from china. I do more than remove the atty, thats not the only point a mod could short out at. I pull the battery, when the mod will be unattended. I never leave a battery charging without supervision, and i don't mix batteries, bounce them off the wall, etc. I feel pretty safe, but if I had skimped on the batteries and one vented while in my protege, how would that be user error, other than buying a cheap battery from china.
From other posts since this last issue, not anything you said. The phrasing may be strong, but I think it makes a point. I believe the witch hunt happens on both sides, like you mentioned; it seems most either fall under the panic and start thinking the sky is falling while pulling battery mods from the mouths of others, or the other side where some would use a big PV to beat the person whose battery lit up. I think the blame lays with people not being careful; whether that means not paying enough attention to what they're doing, or not preparing themselves with the lack of quality control in most Chinese batteries.
No, it doesn't make me feel better about any of this. I know all of that about my batteries, which is why none of the panic that's been traveling across most e-cig forums effects me personally. I know the potential mess I'm getting into, I do my own research to make sure I'm as safe as I can be, and I plan my PV experiences around this knowledge. And I don't understand why others can't do the same. If you can make it to this website, then you're already on the largest source of information in the world. Education would quell the need for pointing fingers in any direction.
I believe there is responsibility on every side of this, but I also see user error more than anything else. I said I've had universal remote batteries left alone vent on their own. The difference is I wouldn't hold the manufacturer of the remote responsible; that position belongs to the battery manufacturer. And at this point, not being able to visually see if a battery is protected or not (like I've seen mentioned more than a few times in various threads the past few days) seems a little lackadaisical. And talk of using even a cheap multi-meter for routine battery testing should be every bit as standard in PV usage conversations as the hundreds of 'What do you carry your PV in?' are.
I never said that was the only way a mod could short out, I pointed it out as one of the most common and easily preventable example of user error I see all over. And since you seemed to miss both of my own examples of batteries venting (which in the case of the portable CD player, were Energizer Li-ion primaries, so not cheap or standard Chinese fare), the gist of my argument is education and personal accountability at all points. Know the potential hazards, know how to perform basic checks and upkeep of both batteries and hardware, learn how to buy wisely, and still be prepared just in case.
Seems we agree more than we disagree.
Yes, we agree. Proper use and not skimping when its time to buy batteries makes your pv as safe as your cell phone.
Thanks for a great post Steve.
ECF should make sure that information about safety is widely and freely available on this forum. For moral reasons, not legal ones.
ECF is not legally responsible for what they don't sell. The manufacturer is.
The instant ECF gets into the business of declaring what it safe, and what is not, then they are legally responsible.
And personally, I will go elsewhere for e-cig discussion.
ECF should make sure that information about safety is widely and freely available on this forum. For moral reasons, not legal ones.
ECF is not legally responsible for what they don't sell. The manufacturer is.
The instant ECF gets into the business of declaring what it safe, and what is not, then they are legally responsible.
And personally, I will go elsewhere for e-cig discussion.
If I bought a flashlight through E-Bay and the batteries exploded, I would in no way blame E-Bay. I don't see how ECF should be concerned about being any more liable.
Besides as Steve said, he doesn't sell anything here. He just sponsers a discussion forum, and adertises here.
Besides as Steve said, he doesn't sell anything here. He just sponsers a discussion forum, and adertises here.
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