Exploding Vape?

[Baditude]

Millions of people use mech mods and people get alarmed by two incidents? I'm not trying to be crass, and it is tragic, but statistically I would say that is a very, very small percentage. If those percentages are enough to alarm folks, they should never leave the couch.

Admittedly it is a small percentage. But two young lives were needlessly lost, allegedly because they were using a tube mech. I have an uneasy feeling that more lives will be lost from using a tube mech. Education and safer tube mech designs are needed to help prevent such losses. This has to happen within the industry, because I fear if it is left up to regulatiors then new tube mech sales will probably become banned in this country. My

I'm curious if you have ever used a tube mech?

I know this question wasn't directed to me, but I'll answer anyway.

Yes, my first two mods were tube mechs in 2012. Like many new vapors then and now, I didn't know much about batteries and had a battery explode in one. Since that experience scared the crap out of me, I took it upon myself to educate myself about batteries. I don't fully understand Ohm's Law and hate math formulas, but I know how to use and interpret an Ohm's Law Calculator.

I haven't used a mech in a couple of years. I find using a regulated variable wattage mod works best for me because I frequently change my wattage settings throughout the day and you can't do that on a mech, and I just feel much more safer using a regulated mod for safety reasons.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

I agree, but those that will criticize our hobby will do so regardless, certainly by sensationalizing every tragedy that occurs. Never pass an opportunity to exploit a victim to further your agenda. Anti-gunners are experts at exploiting tragedy.

But statistically, I just don't think it is as bad as folks perceive it to be. If you (not you personally) are afraid of mech mods, by all means do not use one, but let's not exploit a very small group to demonize something that in reality is not that dangerous.

Valid points – but on the flip side we should also not demonize those who use a circuit-based devices.

You employ a high level of responsibility and respect for the devises you use. And I applaud you for that. But you are not the problem. The problem is those who do not share that same level of respect and responsibility as you and I (and others within this forum). And that can be either a mech or a circuit-based device user. We can call them ignorant until we are blue in the face but that does not help rectify the problem.

So the challenge becomes how do we inform both new and seasoned (but unaware) users of the risks. We cannot make assumptions that one side of the camp, mech or regulated, is more responsible than the other and all must be treated equally.

 

[gpjoe]

My final thoughts:

I am guessing that everybody that posted in this thread is pro-vaping.

What troubles me is that an advocate would speak out against any form of vaping, based on a very insignificant statistical percentage. I am an advocate for a few things, and usually end up on the "wrong" side of public opinion. Vaping and guns are two of those "hobbies".

I find vapers unique when they advocate against any type of vaping. As a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment, I would never say "look at those knuckleheads with their AR-15s or 50 BMGs". I advocate for responsible use of all types of firearms, even if they aren't my cup o' tea. Same with vaping. I'm all in.

And when folks that want to limit my choices exploit a tragedy, I never say "well, we need to limit this or that". Gunners mobilize and fight back with fact based truth against the exploitation. Same here. If we are divided, we fall.

Unfortunately with vaping as young as it is, we don't have a lot of facts to support our stance. I hope that changes soon, so we have arguments based on statistics and not opinion or conjecture.

That's it. Thanks to everyone that replied to my rants, and best regards.

I'm out.

Gary

 

[bombastinator]

Admittedly it is a small percentage. But two young lives were needlessly lost, allegedly because they were using a tube mech. I have an uneasy feeling that more lives will be lost from using a tube mech. Education and safer tube mech designs are needed to help prevent such losses. This has to happen within the industry, because I fear if it is left up to regulatiors then new tube mech sales will probably become banned in this country. My

I think it already has happened, mostly. New designs are safer and a lot of old designs have been updated. It’s mostly just the remaining old stuff left. There are a few still available on fasttech, but that’s no surprise.
Even the old stuff was safer than it is now when it was new. It was battery technology that changed.
It’s a bit like putting unleaded gas in a leaded gas car and expecting it to work fine.

I know this question wasn't directed to me, but I'll answer anyway.

Yes, my first two mods were tube mechs in 2012. Like many new vapors then and now, I didn't know much about batteries and had a battery explode in one. Since that experience scared the crap out of me, I took it upon myself to educate myself about batteries. I don't fully understand Ohm's Law and hate math formulas, but I know how to use and interpret an Ohm's Law Calculator.

I haven't used a mech in a couple of years. I find using a regulated variable wattage mod works best for me because I frequently change my wattage settings throughout the day and you can't do that on a mech, and I just feel much more safer using a regulated mod for safety reasons.

I also learned through unfortunate experience, though I learned slower than you did. It took two battery fails for me. It happened to me back in the days of less active chemistry batteries though so all I did was burn holes in my pants pockets.
We were both kinda lucky I think. We survived our mistakes to learn from them.

 

[dripster]

So the challenge becomes how do we inform both new and seasoned (but unaware) users of the risks.

We certainly can't inform them of the risks involved with using a mech by merely scaring all of them away from mechs.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

My final thoughts:

I am guessing that everybody that posted in this thread is pro-vaping.

What troubles me is that an advocate would speak out against any form of vaping, based on a very insignificant statistical percentage. I am an advocate for a few things, and usually end up on the "wrong" side of public opinion. Vaping and guns are two of those "hobbies".

I find vapers unique when they advocate against any type of vaping. As a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment, I would never say "look at those knuckleheads with their AR-15s or 50 BMGs". I advocate for responsible use of all types of firearms, even if they aren't my cup o' tea. Same with vaping. I'm all in.

And when folks that want to limit my choices exploit a tragedy, I never say "well, we need to limit this or that". Gunners mobilize and fight back with fact based truth against the exploitation. Same here. If we are divided, we fall.

Unfortunately with vaping as young as it is, we don't have a lot of facts to support our stance. I hope that changes soon, so we have arguments based on statistics and not opinion or conjecture.

That's it. Thanks to everyone that replied to my rants, and best regards.

I'm out.

Gary

I think a lot of it boils down to how we interpret the comments made toward something that an individual is passionate about. You are passionate toward mechanical devices. A mechanical device was in use with this latest fatality. It is only natural that we as a community discuss the aspects of a mechanical device, including any dangers, responsibilities and risks involved. And this will go into detail on design and perceived faults. I would like to think that any comments here was not directed to a responsible user but made with good intentions for a safer environment for all.

 

[dripster]

Generally speaking they can’t.

Realistically speaking they can.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

We certainly can't inform them of the risks involved with using a mech by merely scaring all of them away from mechs.

You are correct – just as we cannot scare an individual away by stating all regulated devices blow up when plugged into a USB.

The story goes with this latest fatality that the victim sought advice from a store. What was said? Was he shoed away because the store did not support the device? Was proper advice given? Could any advice have prevented the outcome?

 

[Baditude]

The story goes with this latest fatality that the victim sought advice from a store. What was said? Was he shoed away because the store did not support the device? Was proper advice given? Could any advice have prevented the outcome?

True. And due to the restrictions on vape shops by the FDA, sales staff are not allowed to make adjustments to an existing coil or make a new coil should he require that. I might be wrong, but I don't believe they can even install a new premade coil for a customer once the setup is purchased and has left the shop. They can verbally talk someone through the process, but many new users are intimidated by doing that themselves.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

True. And due to the restrictions on vape shops by the FDA, sales staff are not allowed to make adjustments to an existing coil or make a new coil should he require that. I might be wrong, but I don't believe they can even install a new premade coil for a customer once the setup is purchased and has left the shop. They can verbally talk someone through the process, but many new users are intimidated by doing that themselves.

That I did not know. But being in Canada I am not up to par on your regulations. Thx

 

[Pete M]

I think the thing with all of this is that people tend to want to start vaping, buy their equipment first and then ask for help on here or elsewhere if they're having difficulties. I think it depends where people are starting their vape journey. If people go into a shop they're more likely to get something that is appropriate to their beginner status (like a pod or basic clearomiser, or maybe a more intermediate setup like the Zenith which is designed to be quite 'newbie-proofed'). And even with these basic setups there's a lot of newbie questions there is a big learning curve for some which this site has tons of evidence for - how to prime a coil, what PG/VG ratios are and mean, and most relevantly battery safety.

I think the issue is more likely with people who see the big crazy cloud devices, think 'I want one of them', go online and buy something which they don't really know how to use, which isn't at all appropriate for their knowledge base and don't know the dangers of and then a tragedy happens. I'm not a mech user, never have been and never will be (too much like hard work). I wouldn't presume to tell people who know what they're doing how to vape. But while the general position of advocating mech use - they're perfectly safe as long as you know what you're doing - I can get behind, what is to be done about people who don't know what they're doing and maybe they don't even realise they don't know what they're doing before it's too late?

There's a lot of comparisons on this thread to guns and driving but, you know, you need licenses for them before you're legally allowed to use them. And guns are banned in my country and a lot of others. I'm quite libertarian but also understand the need for laws to protect people.

I'd also add - so far, 2 fatalities from vaping who were users. I personally think the 'Darwin Award' comments are cruel, but OK. But if a similar incident occurs and an 'innocent bystander' is injured or worse, there'll be a real ****storm which will put the current anti-vaping moral-panic 'we're worried about our kids Juuling' in the shade. This safety thing is important, and needs to be dealt with. Not saying that only mechs can be dangerous, but I think everyone here would agree there's a much greater margin for user error with a mech, and user error/ignorance tends to cause the most accidents rather than the device (see also - cars, guns).

 

[dripster]

You are correct – just as we cannot scare an individual away by stating all regulated devices blow up when plugged into a USB.

That's right. But nevertheless, for the sake of completeness, Mooch did say he doesn't recommend USB internal charging because every once in a while a regulated device does blow up when plugged into a USB.

The story goes with this latest fatality that the victim sought advice from a store. What was said? Was he shoed away because the store did not support the device? Was proper advice given? Could any advice have prevented the outcome?

With this same latest fatality, the other story (which is the one from his mother) goes that the victim died from the fact they didn't attempt to surgically remove the piece of shrapnel from his neck at the hospital. AFAIK the store owner's story is that proper advice could not be given because they didn't sell the brand of vape pen that the victim was seeking advice for, and that the reason why they didn't sell it was because there had been known issues with the brand. At least one ecf member immediately jumped at the ridiculous conclusion that it probably was a mech, when the reality is that there was zero information that could indicate it was a mech, and, another reality is that a lot of regulated devices don't meet safety standards. Thing is, some (or a lot of) regulated mod users want to throw mech users under the bus by utterly banning mechs "for the greater good of saving the vaping industry". Hard evidence suggests these same regulated mod users don't know anything much about battery safety. They don't listen to Mooch. Instead, they just keep professing their own misinformation like their life depends on it.

 

[bombastinator]

That's been my whole point in my first reply to this thread, i.e., regulated mods are causing people to stupidly think they are safe, and, the stupidity of that is what makes them most dangerous. Most. As in, more dangerous than mech mods, contrary to popular stupid belief.

You use the word “stupid” a whole lot. Your assumption seems to be that you are so amazingly talented at always paying perfect attention that your ability actually trumps that of multiple layered mechanical failure prevention systems and that anyone who is not this is somehow mentally inferior and undeserving of respect. This to me smacks not of capacity, but of potential mental illness.

I stand by my statement that “everyone is stupid some of the time”. Including, I personally believe, you. Not admitting a mistake is not the same as not making one, it’s simply refusing to learn from it.

 

[AttyPops]

That's right. But nevertheless, for the sake of completeness, Mooch did say he doesn't recommend USB internal charging because every once in a while a regulated device does blow up when plugged into a USB.

With this same latest fatality, the other story (which is the one from his mother) goes that the victim died from the fact they didn't attempt to surgically remove the piece of shrapnel from his neck at the hospital. AFAIK the store owner's story is that proper advice could not be given because they didn't sell the brand of vape pen that the victim was seeking advice for, and that the reason why they didn't sell it was because there had been known issues with the brand. At least one ecf member immediately jumped at the ridiculous conclusion that it probably was a mech, when the reality is that there was zero information that could indicate it was a mech, and, another reality is that a lot of regulated devices don't meet safety standards. Thing is, some (or a lot of) regulated mod users want to throw mech users under the bus by utterly banning mechs "for the greater good of saving the vaping industry". Hard evidence suggests these same regulated mod users don't know anything much about battery safety. They don't listen to Mooch. Instead, they just keep professing their own misinformation like their life depends on it.

Yep. It's all conspiracy theory.
And stupid people.
You go with that.

Meanwhile, IDK what the Vegas odds are, but I'm betting at least 2:1 that it's a mech.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

That's right. But nevertheless, for the sake of completeness, Mooch did say he doesn't recommend USB internal charging because every once in a while a regulated device does blow up when plugged into a USB.

With this same latest fatality, the other story (which is the one from his mother) goes that the victim died from the fact they didn't attempt to surgically remove the piece of shrapnel from his neck at the hospital. AFAIK the store owner's story is that proper advice could not be given because they didn't sell the brand of vape pen that the victim was seeking advice for, and that the reason why they didn't sell it was because there had been known issues with the brand. At least one ecf member immediately jumped at the ridiculous conclusion that it probably was a mech, when the reality is that there was zero information that could indicate it was a mech, and, another reality is that a lot of regulated devices don't meet safety standards. Thing is, some (or a lot of) regulated mod users want to throw mech users under the bus by utterly banning mechs "for the greater good of saving the vaping industry". Hard evidence suggests these same regulated mod users don't know anything much about battery safety. They don't listen to Mooch. Instead, they just keep professing their own misinformation like their life depends on it.

Mooch makes a lot of recommendations – so why just pick on one specific action of charging through the USB?

And yes, the victim died from a stroke, or complications of – by why did he suffer from a stroke in the first place?

The media described it as a vape pen – but there have been statements the device was a mech. Research for yourself

And if we want to discuss safety standards, there are none on a mechanical device. That statement is a just a tad contradicting.

And judging by your aggressive and condescending comments, it seems to me you want to throw regulated users under the bus as well. Pot calling the kettle black?

And if someone is unaware of Mooch or other outlets such as ECF that promote safe battery practices, how can they be educated by what these outlets have to say?

Were you aware of Mooch prior to picking up your first vape device? I wasn’t!

 

[dripster]

You use the word “stupid” a whole lot. Your assumption seems to be that you are so amazingly talented at always paying perfect attention that your ability actually trumps that of multiple layered mechanical failure prevention systems and that anyone who is not this is somehow mentally inferior and undeserving of respect. This to me smacks not of capacity, but of potential mental illness.

I stand by my statement that “everyone is stupid some of the time”. Including, I personally believe, you. Not admitting a mistake is not the same as not making one, it’s simply refusing to learn from it.

Just because I'm stupid some of the time doesn't also mean I'm stupid some of the time I spend using my mechs. Accidents can still happen, but I don't use training wheels on my bicycle thinking some day I might fall so the reason I use the word stupid a lot is because yes, the mere suggestion that I might be safer using a regulated mod is downright insulting my intelligence and therefore utterly undeserving of even the very tiniest amount of respect.

 

[dripster]

Mooch makes a lot of recommendations – so why just pick on one specific action of charging through the USB?

I'm not the guy who linked the video of the mod that turned itself into a scary fireball explosion in the middle of the night whilst it was internally charging through the USB. So clearly you are barking up the wrong tree here, as mechs and mech users (myself included) aren't to blame for anything that can be even remotely related to that.

And yes, the victim died from a stroke, or complications of – by why did he suffer from a stroke in the first place?

Battery malfunction.

The media described it as a vape pen – but there have been statements the device was a mech. Research for yourself

I already did research for myself, and, yes according to CBS 11 in Dallas/Fort Worth, the Smoke and Vape DZ shop said he was seeking help with a mech. But my point was that, at the time when one efc member jumped to the conclusion that it probably was a mech, AFAIK there was still zero information to be found in online news reports that could indicate it was a mech. The only other info I have been able to find about what the type of the device was, is this:

Gizmodo contacted the Tarrant County Medical Examiner by email to ask if they have a record of what brand or model of vape pen Brown was using at the time of his death, but we did not receive an immediate reply. We’ll update this post when we have more information.
From: https://gizmodo.com/texas-man-dies-after-vape-pen-explosion-severs-artery-t-1832355840

And if we want to discuss safety standards, there are none on a mechanical device. That statement is a just a tad contradicting.

I never said there were safety standards on a mechanical device. Rather, I said that the relative safety of using a mechanical device comes from knowing how to use it, meaning, anyone can go and buy a power saw and cut off a limb, just like you don't even have to promise you won't drink it before you can buy a bottle of lye, plain and simple.

And judging by your aggressive and condescending comments, it seems to me you want to throw regulated users under the bus as well. Pot calling the kettle black?

No, it isn't aggressive nor condescending in any way, shape, or form. What's entirely stupid is the suggestion that mech mods are inherently (inherently, i.e. regardless of who uses what and how they're using it) more dangerous than regulated mods. They aren't. Period.

And if someone is unaware of Mooch or other outlets such as ECF that promote safe battery practices, how can they be educated by what these outlets have to say?

Only a fraction of ecf members promote (relatively) safe battery practices. The rest are just fueling senseless paranoia against the idea of using a mech above the CDR of the battery when the reality is that the vast majority of EXPERIENCED mech users are not just vaping above the CDR of their battery, but are doing it SIGNIFICANTLY above the CDR of their battery (around .1 ohm on a single cell is really very common and perfectly acceptable if you know what you're doing).

Were you aware of Mooch prior to picking up your first vape device? I wasn’t!

No, but Mooch mainly is why I grew a lot smarter since then, and I really thank him for that. Listening, re-listening, re-re-listening, and re-re-re-listening carefully to him is how I triple check I'm not stupid.

 

[ScottP]

At least one ecf member immediately jumped at the ridiculous conclusion that it probably was a mech, when the reality is that there was zero information that could indicate it was a mech,

I already did research for myself, and, yes according to CBS 11 in Dallas/Fort Worth, the Smoke and Vape DZ shop said he was seeking help with a mech. But my point was that, at the time when one efc member jumped to the conclusion that it probably was a mech, AFAIK there was still zero information to be found in online news reports that could indicate it was a mech. The only other info I have been able to find about what the type of the device was, is this:

You did research huh? The very FIRST post in one of the ORIGINAL threads about this incident: E cig explosion in Texas - guy dies linked to the article Texas Man Dies After E-Cigarette Explodes in His Face and Severs an Artery. If you had read this article it clearly stated:

Shop managers told CBS DFW that Brown did not purchase anything, but was seeking help on how to use a Mechanical Mod vape pen.

So was it REALLY a "ridiculous conclusion" from an ECF member to think it was probably a mech?

 

[jandrew]

You did research huh? You are either lying or are illiterate. The very FIRST post in the ORIGINAL thread about this incident: New York Post and a deadly vape pen linked to the article Texas man killed by exploding vape pen. If you had read this article to the end, the very last sentence clearly stated:

One of the pieces removed from D’Elia’s head featured the logo of Smok-E Mountain Mech Works, a company based in the Philippines

Now can you guess what kind of mods Smok-E Mountain Mech Works makes, or do you REALLY think it is a "ridiculous conclusion" to think it was probably a mech?

Just to be clear, if you read the article you link more carefully you'll see that the quote you pulled is not in reference to the Texas incident at all but, in fact, to the earlier Florida incident.

 

[ScottP]

Just to be clear, if you read the article you link more carefully you'll see that the quote you pulled is not in reference to the Texas incident at all but, in fact, to the earlier Florida incident.

Oops yes wrong thread and article, seems there were two threads started at the same time. Fixed it now.