Facts regarding the FDA Press Release - 7/22 (repost)

[TheIllustratedMan]

OK.. scouring this damnedable report to figure out what they're trying to say about TSNAs, I *think* that they tested for each one at varied detectable levels. For instance, N-nitrosoanabasine (NAB) was detectable at 21 ppb. They are essentially saying that the njoy cartridges had at least 141 parts per billion TSNAs. Oddly, the control in the tests (the Nicotrol inhaler) shows no results at all. According to the key, this means that the sample was not available for testing. There doesn't seem to be any explanation given for its absence.

So, according to this report, njoy's cartridges contained at least 141Ng TSNAs, while Health New Zealand found 8Ng in 16mg nicotine solution from Ruyan. That's a huge disparity, especially taking into account that the Smoking Everywhere cartridges were found to contain anywhere from 0Ng to 99+Ng TSNAs. It's pretty obvious that the liquid from each company is different.

However, to maintain perspective, 1230 ppb TSNAs in unburned cigarette tobacco.

 

[Shan123]

Throwing in a small possibly irrelevant factoid: There's one of those "Injury Board" posts up today about this FDA release.
E-cigarette Anyone? | InjuryBoard West Palm Beach

Behind a link that appears as "e-cigarettes are available online and companies market those cigarettes to the young consumer" is a photo featuring Howard Stern, Danny Bonaduce and... someone else, apparently pulled from SmokingEverywhere's site though I don't see it there:
http://www.smokingeverywhere.com/images/Howard_stern.jpg
I honestly do not know if a lot of under-18s or under-21s listen to Stern and Bonaduce's shows.

And the usual arguments we make about children are (a) cost and (b) flavorings are present in alcohol but no one's talking about banning flavored alcohol because we must think of the children. Related to cost would be the impossibility of keeping all the related supplies/chargers/etc. hidden from parents; it is far easier to buy and conceal a pack of cigarettes.

 

[tikva]

Table 1. Results on analyses of whole cartridge (SE and NJoy)

analyte was detected but at a level less than the limit-of-quantitation.

Limit of detection Cotinine 20 ppb. Anabasine 10 ppb; myosmine 69 ppb; β-nicotyrine 170 ppb – present but at less than the level of the Nicotrol
specifications


http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/ScienceResearch/UCM173250.pdf

The full Table with results of each is on page 4.

This whole report can be ripped to shreds........

 

[J.R.]

Lol nitrosamines are also found in beer, meat, cheese, etc.

 

[Vista Chris]

Lol nitrosamines are also found in beer, meat, cheese, etc.

J.R.,

Links to any studies? We are working on a very thorough response with a counter for every FDA claim, including the one that says we're coming after everybody's children.

I think this info can only help.

Thanks.

 

[eric]

Thanks to grimmer255 and OutWest:

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/ScienceResearch/UCM173250.pdf

This is the full report. It seems to be (upon preliminary examination) similar to the Health New Zealand study. I take it as actually encouraging (taking into account the amount of TSNAs in nicotine gum). A side-by-side analysis is probably needed here. Anyone up for it?

I need this asap. Please contact me if you have access to lab test results on Nicotine Gum and/or the Nicotine Transdermal Patch.

 

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

Here are the highpoints from my blog on debunking this arguement - you can find the entire text in my blog - link in my signature....


First, the median age for users of this device is 40 years of age, far away from the age that children start smoking. - there's the results of the NJoy study done somewhere around here....

Second, these children would have to have the initial start up cost of $100-$150. The start up costs would deter many.

Third, there is a long learning curve on these vs the ease of purchasing a pack of smokes, and lighting up.

Fourth, there is all the regular maintenance on the device, again vs the ease of traditional tobacco.

Fifth, the regular equipment purchases to replace defective and/or dying atomizers and batteries.

Sixth, the multitudes of E-Cigarette users in the US have used these as an alternative to tobacco, and will not willingly go back to tobacco for various reasons, taste and general feelings of better well-being first and foremost.

 

[tannerk]

I need this asap. Please contact me if you have access to lab test results on Nicotine Gum and/or the Nicotine Transdermal Patch.

This contains all the info you may need on the gum:

Long-term Nicorette gum users losing hair and teeth
​

and this is for the patch

OTC Nicotine Patch - Does it really double your chances of quitting? by John R. Polito
​

Keep in mind that resources are linked on the buttom of each article. Hope it helps.

 

[robbiehatfield]

Throwing in a small possibly irrelevant factoid: There's one of those "Injury Board" posts up today about this FDA release.
E-cigarette Anyone? | InjuryBoard West Palm Beach

Behind a link that appears as "e-cigarettes are available online and companies market those cigarettes to the young consumer" is a photo featuring Howard Stern, Danny Bonaduce and... someone else, apparently pulled from SmokingEverywhere's site though I don't see it there:
http://www.smokingeverywhere.com/images/Howard_stern.jpg
I honestly do not know if a lot of under-18s or under-21s listen to Stern and Bonaduce's shows.

And the usual arguments we make about children are (a) cost and (b) flavorings are present in alcohol but no one's talking about banning flavored alcohol because we must think of the children. Related to cost would be the impossibility of keeping all the related supplies/chargers/etc. hidden from parents; it is far easier to buy and conceal a pack of cigarettes.

Heck, kids found out long ago how to get high from a can of whipped cream!! I guess this means whipped cream flavored smoke juice is out of the question? Still can buy whipped cream though.. LOL

Robbie

 

[robbiehatfield]

One more thing..

Why doesn't the ECA take all of the donated funds and use the money for an independent laboratory pitting the njoy ecig against a pack of Marlboros?

Why doesn't the FDA test Johnson Creek smoke juice? Aren't they in line to be FDA approved anyway? It's about the truth isn't it? I'm also beginning to suspect that the sudden changes in Johnson Creek smoke juice may have something to do with the quest for FDA approval and that perhaps they (Johnson Creek) found something they didn't like? Just guessing on this one, but the timing sure seems right enough to make it plausible?

Robbie

 

[J.R.]

J.R.,

Links to any studies? We are working on a very thorough response with a counter for every FDA claim, including the one that says we're coming after everybody's children.

I think this info can only help.

Thanks.

An example of beers tested back in '07.

2007 Nitrosamine Domestic Beer Test

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Why doesn't the ECA take all of the donated funds and use the money for an independent laboratory pitting the njoy ecig against a pack of Marlboros?

Robbie - I try to at least acknowledge that I see comments/questions regarding the ECA and if I can answer them, I do my best.

This is one question that I cannot answer this moment... but I did want to let you know that I have noted this and am forwarding on.

 

[boxhead]

hey, on the fda report the inhaler didnt have any #s in the colums for what was detected at least my click on a link for the report...am i missing somthing?

funny that pillbox38 had a new lab report out before the fda and had one out for a long time.

while i knew there was a chance of some chemicals being unhealthy for me, the shear quanty of chemicals in a analog was affecting me now, and the e-cig effects are no where as damaging to me. this is what i feel. why is that not relvent to the fda?

i quess i will ask BigJimW if he needs a wheel man...

 

[tikva]

Lol nitrosamines are also found in beer, meat, cheese, etc.

J.R.,

Links to any studies? We are working on a very thorough response with a counter for every FDA claim, including the one that says we're coming after everybody's children.

I think this info can only help.

Thanks.

Nitrosamines in food (and other things)

Nitrosamines and Cancer

And

Nitrite in Meat

And general info from wikipedia:

"Food
Nitrosamines are produced from nitrites and secondary amines, which often occur in the form of proteins. Their formation can occur only under certain conditions, including strongly acidic conditions such as that of the human stomach. High temperatures, as in frying, can also enhance the formation of nitrosamines. These cooking styles may be responsible for thousands of cases of colon cancer per year across the world. The presence of nitrosamines may be identified by the Liebermann's reaction. [1]
Under acidic conditions the nitrite forms nitrous acid (HNO2), which is protonated and splits into the nitrosoniumcation N≡O+ and water: H2NO2+ = H2O + NO+. The nitrosonium cation then reacts with an amine to produce nitrosamine.[citation needed]
Nitrosamines are found in many foodstuffs, especially beer, fish, and fish byproducts, and also in meat and cheese products preserved with nitrite pickling salt. The U.S. government established limits on the amount of nitrites used in meat products in order to decrease cancer risk in the population. There are also rules about adding ascorbic acid or related compounds to meat, because they inhibit nitrosamine formation.[citation needed]"
Nitrosamine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[TheIllustratedMan]

Here's another table showing levels of Nitrosamines in new tobacco products:

http://www.starscientific.com/404/stepanov tsna in.pdf

All of the measurements are in micrograms, so multiply by 1000 to get nanograms (the standard we seem to be dealing with).

According to this study:

Nicoderm - 8 nanograms total
Nicorette - 2 nanograms total
Marb Red - 6300 nanograms total

I'm sure you can find others that vary in specifics, but show the same trend.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Well Lacey--I just read NJOY's counterstatment to the FDA and NJOY states that they have done a 3rd party study on their product----so where is the lab report? Why have they not released it or did I miss it?

Sun

They were waiting for the bs we saw yesterday Apparently, it's beautiful!

 

[Sun Vaporer]

They were waiting for the bs we saw yesterday Apparently, it's beautiful!

Well this is ground breaking news---when is NJOY going to release it as we could sure us a little damage control here. Today would have been great, now that every major network is only broadcasting the FDA report---so what is NJOY waiting for now.--We need some damage control.

Sun

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Well this is ground breaking news---when is NJOY going to release it as we could sure us a little damage control here. Today would have been great, now that every major network is only broadcasting the FDA report---so what is NJOY waiting for now.--We need some damage control.

Sun

It is on it's way.

I can share this: The lab that did the testing is VERY reputable!

 

[dseanor]

For Comparison ...

 

[stevo_tdo]

It's going to need to be damn asap. The more time people have to think about the fda statement the worse it will be. I hate to say it but some people are stupid and need to be told what to think (don't judge me). It going to go something like this:

Idiot 1: Hey don't smoke that the fda says it will kill you.
Idiot 2: Yeah I know but (Insert Lab here) did some testing and have different results.
Idiot 1: Oh, really. Well I guess the company that let them sell hydroxycut got this wrong too.
Idiot 2: Yeah and look at all the reputable studies (insert lab here) has done.
Idiot 1: I'm sorry for being an idiot.