fakes, clones, copies
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guys, the only that is needed is to do our job. That means that forums have to do their job. Then no patents are needed. All depend on us, not on the law. If law was good then he would protect an original maker without telling him to patent anything, he would only need a simple proof that the invention was his. Also patent is a silly procceudure because it asks you to pay a crazy amount of money that you usually dont have, that means that the law works well only for the big companies (copiers are included on big companies)
Also, a maker cant spend his time to chase copiers. If I do that then I will not have time for anything else, so you will not have what you want from me. So the best we can do is to make our job. If copiers are together on this game then we have to do the same. Its simple as that
Also, a maker cant spend his time to chase copiers. If I do that then I will not have time for anything else, so you will not have what you want from me. So the best we can do is to make our job. If copiers are together on this game then we have to do the same. Its simple as that
stop them from being known and they will die with a simple rock Willy
This is going to end up nowhere. Without the patent, the law, the forums won't be FORCED to police it. They will only police it if the feel like it. Apple and samsung have bee at each other's throats for years now.
Without those patents, can anyone tell me who owns the feature or design?
Is a patent a lot of work? Yup. But honestly in some cases it's a matter of one modders words vs another modders words. Imeo you have to protect your device.
Provari doesn't have a direct clone. Why? It's protected. The fear of protection is sometimes enough.
Without those patents, can anyone tell me who owns the feature or design?
Is a patent a lot of work? Yup. But honestly in some cases it's a matter of one modders words vs another modders words. Imeo you have to protect your device.
Provari doesn't have a direct clone. Why? It's protected. The fear of protection is sometimes enough.
Myself coming from a chinese background sorta understand what is happening in china.
The reason why chinese copiers prefer copying a non chinese product is because:
-It is easier for a chinese company to sue a chinese company if they copy each other. Not so easy for a foreign company to sue a chinese based company unless you have a lot of $$ to do so.
- chinese copyer arn't stupid..they only copy from the best.. no point copying a crap product because it will just be crap x2.
- there are very little innovation coming from china at this stage becasue there is no protect on intellectual property in china and they know they will get copied so they don't bother with the invention process.
- I do believe the copier is an issue but the buyers of counterfeit are not any better then the copier themself. for example. A Drug dealer won't be a drug dealer if no one buys from him. It's all supply and demand.
I think copies are aim at cheap asses and the orginals are for those who wants the best of the best.
Just my 2 cent
The reason why chinese copiers prefer copying a non chinese product is because:
-It is easier for a chinese company to sue a chinese company if they copy each other. Not so easy for a foreign company to sue a chinese based company unless you have a lot of $$ to do so.
- chinese copyer arn't stupid..they only copy from the best.. no point copying a crap product because it will just be crap x2.
- there are very little innovation coming from china at this stage becasue there is no protect on intellectual property in china and they know they will get copied so they don't bother with the invention process.
- I do believe the copier is an issue but the buyers of counterfeit are not any better then the copier themself. for example. A Drug dealer won't be a drug dealer if no one buys from him. It's all supply and demand.
I think copies are aim at cheap asses and the orginals are for those who wants the best of the best.
Just my 2 cent
Its not exactly one modders words vs another modders words yankee. Forum and dates dont lie
No, timestamps don't lie. Imeo I respect you, but you do have to agree that they don't always paint the whole picture either yes?
Let's do a bit of math. Check out the price of a pack of analogs in each US state.
Let's ignore the outliers, like New York, where it is taxed to death. In most states, it is about $5 - $6 per pack. So a month of analogs for a pack a day habit is, say, $150. For a year, that comes out to $1800.
For this amount, you can buy a couple of high-end mods, a couple of high-end attys, batteries and charger, ohm reader, and enough rebuildable materials and good juice to last a year.
In the second year, you only need to spend a few hundred on wick, wire (or ready wires) and juice.
At the end of the second year, you are ahead financially by many hundreds of dollars, and you have not supported cloners.
The counterargument I get here is always that cheap clones save you even more money. Sure. If I supported fraud and crime, I could commit felonies and steal, and increase my income.
Let's ignore the outliers, like New York, where it is taxed to death. In most states, it is about $5 - $6 per pack. So a month of analogs for a pack a day habit is, say, $150. For a year, that comes out to $1800.
For this amount, you can buy a couple of high-end mods, a couple of high-end attys, batteries and charger, ohm reader, and enough rebuildable materials and good juice to last a year.
In the second year, you only need to spend a few hundred on wick, wire (or ready wires) and juice.
At the end of the second year, you are ahead financially by many hundreds of dollars, and you have not supported cloners.
The counterargument I get here is always that cheap clones save you even more money. Sure. If I supported fraud and crime, I could commit felonies and steal, and increase my income.
It's the same all around:
Urban Outfitters - Cloners
Guess what? The justice system everywhere exists to make sure large corporations and the rich can extract wealth from you, and you cannot return the favor.
Why? Because enforcing your rights is extremely costly. Someone like this jewelry designer would have to pay tremendous amounts to a lawyer to fight Urban Outfitters, which has a floor in a building stocked with lawyers in cryogenic storage, who can be brought out to make her lawsuit last for years and millions of dollars.
And try to claim your rights in a Chinese court of law. "Chinese court of law". Lawlz.
Urban Outfitters - Cloners
Guess what? The justice system everywhere exists to make sure large corporations and the rich can extract wealth from you, and you cannot return the favor.
Why? Because enforcing your rights is extremely costly. Someone like this jewelry designer would have to pay tremendous amounts to a lawyer to fight Urban Outfitters, which has a floor in a building stocked with lawyers in cryogenic storage, who can be brought out to make her lawsuit last for years and millions of dollars.
And try to claim your rights in a Chinese court of law. "Chinese court of law". Lawlz.
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exactly kata. System helps rich people. And be sure that even if you win, it will be after 10 years when the situation will have been forgotten.
System is silly. What we have to do is to make our own system because at the end we are the system.
System is silly. What we have to do is to make our own system because at the end we are the system.
What makes me wonder is that china can make complicated devices (clones) in 25% the price, why can't they make simple devices with their own design and sell it even cheaper!! but maybe as pimpe said, chinese are not innovative because of the reasons mentioned.
yes, it doesnt paint the whole storry because people lie a lot Yankee. But in a court there are no lies. Dates are always dates.
I really believe that we can stop very easy all this clone activity. Its so easy that you will not believe it. But we are used to think that things are difficult and we cant do anything because big companies rule the world. Thats not true in our situation because vapers are still a small community. But if we let them go big then we will not be able to do many things. But now its very easy. Internet has very big power and in our situation, forums are the places that can bring the solution. If forums stop talking about this and blacklist those clones and stores that sells them, then this clone industry will go down in 1 month.
Sorry to ruin the party but I'm afraid that there's nothing you can do about it. And to be honest maybe there's nothing you need to do about it. Apple is doing just well selling it's products at the price point they want, with their own margins and don't focus more on volume or numbers.
The problem is that the cloning has been going on for many years, in areas where lot's of money is at stake and very influential companies. One great example is cars, where cheap ..., low quality copies are made in China and car companies can't do .... about it because they sue them in court but keep on losing.
Chinese Clones - The Story of Soulless and Affordable Cars - page 3
BMW loses court battle to chinese X5 clone
Cloning will always happen because of the price point difference. Especially these days when people are broke. Of course the people with cash will keep the bigger companies going but us broke folk get by with what we can.
And have to point two things out. Apple is a horrible reference for all of this because the only reason theyre doing well is marketing and a fan base. They dont innovate anything. Everything they habe brought out was around before they touched it. Smart phones mp3 players tablets pc's you name it. They just marketed it better. Thats why there price point works out so well. But there hardware is always outdated, limited and overpriced. Its basically a clone company that knows how to get the consumers on there side
And there are a hell of allot of lies in courts. But I cant type enough to get into that rant.... But to the point you were trying to make about clones being able to be shut down quickly and easily. Good luck. Never underestimate a greedy business man.
China could be very innovative but if they cut out the research side of things on top of lower wages it makes the product cheaper to the consumer and they sell a larger volume. Which in turn nets a high profit. So from a strictly business standpoint why not? you can pay r&d and make a special design or you can just steal the design and change enough to keep it out of the courts. Which will net you more money. Thats what matters to business men
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And have to point two things out. Apple is a horrible reference for all of this because the only reason theyre doing well is marketing and a fan base. They dont innovate anything. Everything they habe brought out was around before they touched it. Smart phones mp3 players tablets pc's you name it. They just marketed it better. Thats why there price point works out so well. But there hardware is always outdated, limited and overpriced. Its basically a clone company that knows how to get the consumers on there side
And there are a hell of allot of lies in courts. But I cant type enough to get into that rant.... But to the point you were trying to make about clones being able to be shut down quickly and easily. Good luck. Never underestimate a greedy business man.
China could be very innovative but if they cut out the research side of things on top of lower wages it makes the product cheaper to the consumer and they sell a larger volume. Which in turn nets a high profit. So from a strictly business standpoint why not? you can pay r&d and make a special design or you can just steal the design and change enough to keep it out of the courts. Which will net you more money. Thats what matters to business men
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Just watch this one another great add from Todd,
Regarding the clone and alternative available to them.
And I think he see this all issue very clear and spot on.
all with nice and gentle approach as always
Clones - Just a thought! - YouTube
Regarding the clone and alternative available to them.
And I think he see this all issue very clear and spot on.
all with nice and gentle approach as always
Clones - Just a thought! - YouTube
Clones won't stop. No matter what you do to the internet, the forums, it's policies, etc.
If anyone wants to stop clones, then the first place to look are the sellers who sell them? Well then we batter have a look at those companies that sell the original designs.
I'll keep this GG related because it's not even fair to drag other modders into this forum. The GG sellers would need to stop selling clones. And then what happens if they can't stock GG items? They don't sell a damn thing but a handful of accessories. Until the ithaka, there wasn't even enough GG products in stock to keep supply up.
If anyone wants to stop clones, then the first place to look are the sellers who sell them? Well then we batter have a look at those companies that sell the original designs.
I'll keep this GG related because it's not even fair to drag other modders into this forum. The GG sellers would need to stop selling clones. And then what happens if they can't stock GG items? They don't sell a damn thing but a handful of accessories. Until the ithaka, there wasn't even enough GG products in stock to keep supply up.
at the point we are now, clones are made by very small factories or even by individuals. We are a small community and we can stop it very very easy NOW, not later. There is no "later". I say again that we have to kill the snake before grows up.
Just because e cigs are a small community doesnt mean the companies making the clones are small. We cant stop it easily now. Its been going on for years and years. You best believe these peole have money to fight and they will especially when it gets braught to a more then likely biased court.
Which also brings up that the people that design which conform to this small community are probably only making e cigs. And have less money to fight with because of that.
Your trying to compare a small specialist to a money maker that is expanded and creates dozens of other things. Cash controls the courts. Cash controls the market.
On top of that if the clones dissapear so do most of our vendors because people dont always have the money to spend on the higher end so sales would drop drastically putting many people out of work. You cant make a step in business without hurting someone
Its not a matter of what people want to pay at this point its what people can pay. And just quitting cigarettes doesnt necessarily free up enough cash to buy these things especially if your coming from smoking rollies
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This comment made me barf a litlle. You actually believe what you are saying is true? lmao.
its not going for years, only for the last year perm. Also there is no "money" issue here. You just cut their publicity and thats all.
If people dont have the money then they have to buy inferior products perm. You cant wear a rolex if you cant afford it. Copying someones work (quality, innovation, advertising) make you a real thief. Not a thief just in papers, it makes you a thief in reality. And because copying became a common thing that doesnt mean that we dont have to stop it.
Think like this: If someone comes to your house and steal your designs of a product that you want to release to the market, isnt the same as cloning? Wouldnt you stop him by shooting him before comes out of the door?
If people dont have the money then they have to buy inferior products perm. You cant wear a rolex if you cant afford it. Copying someones work (quality, innovation, advertising) make you a real thief. Not a thief just in papers, it makes you a thief in reality. And because copying became a common thing that doesnt mean that we dont have to stop it.
Think like this: If someone comes to your house and steal your designs of a product that you want to release to the market, isnt the same as cloning? Wouldnt you stop him by shooting him before comes out of the door?
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