It Doesn't.
Steve is just Trying to Paint a Picture that "mass paranoia and fear mongering has taken over".
And somehow Strengthen his Position that "Nothing is Going to Happen".
FDA bans
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It Doesn't.
Steve is just Trying to Paint a Picture that "mass paranoia and fear mongering has taken over".
And somehow Strengthen his Position that "Nothing is Going to Happen".
I just don't see it happening. Logically, it would make no sense. Not saying the federal government is logical, but at a certain point rationality will prevail.
I'm pretty certain that *something* is going to happen, and things may be a bit more difficult for vapers than they are currently... but I've told you several times that I don't think it's going to be as bad as the total destruction of the e-cig market that you keep claiming is going to happen. And I still feel that way. I think the trend and the market has already grown too large for the gov't or anybody else to be able to destroy it. For a few years, there may be some roadblocks, but I think even those will eventually yield to litigation.
For a while, there was all this noise about how congress or the FCC was going to regulate, legislate, destroy the internet. And then they finally realized that the US does not own the internet. Same applies here -- the US does not own the entire e-cig market -- China has a huge chunk of it, and other countries do as well. I think a lot of this posturing in DC is much the same kind of insular idiocy that we saw about the internet, and will eventually yield to reality.
Andria
Bingo. All talk and little action; that's how DC generally works...
OK.
But Most of the Time when Someone Doesn't See Something Happening, they usually can Base It on Something.
Every Single Thing the FDA has Said indicates that they Want to Control/Regulate/Restrict "All Forms of Nicotine". The FSTCA is Law so that is Not In Question. The Majority of the State Attorney Generals are Calling for Restricts.
I just Can't Understand how Anyone can Think that "Nothing is Going to Change"?
It goes Way beyond being Optimistic. Or Trying to Look on the Bright ide of Things. And seem to be more of a Head in the Sand Attitude.
I also Don't see how Telling People that "Nothing is Going to Change" helps the Vaping Community to become more Active about Fighting the Coming Regulations?
Personally I think the FDA regs will initially come down hard. They will want to ban flavors, online sales, ect.
They'll send it to congress.
Congress will opt to do nothing and so they will go into effect.
There will likely be a grace period of 4-6 months for equipment and stores to get compliant.
After that there will be up to 2 years before regs go into full effect.
During this time, it will get challenged in court, and this is where it will be torn to pieces and whittled down into pieces.
The equipment isn't a tobacco product, and just like the FDA cannot regulate pipes and other paraphernalia, they will fail to regulate that.
The batteries are batteries, FDA will never be able to regulate them.
The liquid is nearly all food ingredients. The only thing they can regulate is the nicotine itself, and this is where the choke point will be.
What will end up happening is that they will ban flavors, and you will end up buying unflavored nicotine solution. Then you will add flavors to dilute them yourself, or flavor packs will be sold " for baking/candy making purposes only" that are exactly the ratio needed to dilute most juices.
The major flaw is that most of the infrastructure is on the internet. It isn't really legal for me to buy an SDcard with software to hack my nintendo DS, but that didn't stop me. Buying liquor or cigarettes online isn't an issue. You'll just see these companies either change the wording for their products or move out of country where they cannot be regulated. Regulating internet industries is something the FDA isn't really equipped to do since it is trivial for companies to skirt around and of no consequence for consumers to ignore.
They'll send it to congress.
Congress will opt to do nothing and so they will go into effect.
There will likely be a grace period of 4-6 months for equipment and stores to get compliant.
After that there will be up to 2 years before regs go into full effect.
During this time, it will get challenged in court, and this is where it will be torn to pieces and whittled down into pieces.
The equipment isn't a tobacco product, and just like the FDA cannot regulate pipes and other paraphernalia, they will fail to regulate that.
The batteries are batteries, FDA will never be able to regulate them.
The liquid is nearly all food ingredients. The only thing they can regulate is the nicotine itself, and this is where the choke point will be.
What will end up happening is that they will ban flavors, and you will end up buying unflavored nicotine solution. Then you will add flavors to dilute them yourself, or flavor packs will be sold " for baking/candy making purposes only" that are exactly the ratio needed to dilute most juices.
The major flaw is that most of the infrastructure is on the internet. It isn't really legal for me to buy an SDcard with software to hack my nintendo DS, but that didn't stop me. Buying liquor or cigarettes online isn't an issue. You'll just see these companies either change the wording for their products or move out of country where they cannot be regulated. Regulating internet industries is something the FDA isn't really equipped to do since it is trivial for companies to skirt around and of no consequence for consumers to ignore.
I think Most Vapers have No Clue just how much "more difficult" things will be once the FDA Finalizes their Rules.
I think this will boil down to how much money they can extract from our wallets. The Gov't is looking at all the money e-cig companys are making and see a bright future in it (as in future taxes). This circus will end much like everything else Gov't puts it's hand on. Future Revenue!
For years the Tobacco Companys told us cigs were safe. Then when they were sued and Gov't got involved like it was fighting for us. They raised the taxes left and right. But no matter how bad they say it is you can still buy them. A little over 3 years ago I was paying $120 a carton in NYC for smokes and I smoked 2 PAD. Now from people I know there, some places sell them for $14,$15 a pack. Tax Revenue!
So why try to give the e-cig business to Big Tobacco. Simple. The rules and regulations for Tobacco are already in place as well as the Taxes! More Revenue! Yes we will be able to buy what we need to make our own stuff, but like what has been said in this thread, they will target nicotine in relations to tobacco only so they can tax the hell out of it and get more Tax Revenue!!!!!
Sorry for the ramble but vaping has been the only thing that has finally taken me off a 45 year habit and I'm not about to go back, or go down without a fight!!!
For years the Tobacco Companys told us cigs were safe. Then when they were sued and Gov't got involved like it was fighting for us. They raised the taxes left and right. But no matter how bad they say it is you can still buy them. A little over 3 years ago I was paying $120 a carton in NYC for smokes and I smoked 2 PAD. Now from people I know there, some places sell them for $14,$15 a pack. Tax Revenue!
So why try to give the e-cig business to Big Tobacco. Simple. The rules and regulations for Tobacco are already in place as well as the Taxes! More Revenue! Yes we will be able to buy what we need to make our own stuff, but like what has been said in this thread, they will target nicotine in relations to tobacco only so they can tax the hell out of it and get more Tax Revenue!!!!!
Sorry for the ramble but vaping has been the only thing that has finally taken me off a 45 year habit and I'm not about to go back, or go down without a fight!!!
Cigarettes are easily purchased online, you just have to buy cartons as opposed to packs. That and the risk of getting counterfeit smokes are why most people don't do it.
Sent from my HTC One
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=buy+cigarettes+online
I used to get my cigarettes from Russia. At least, they were supposedly produced somewhere in Europe, and the packs had Cyrillic writing, so I'm assuming Russia. Usually took about 3-4 weeks to get them, but they were just as good as American, and hella cheaper.
Sent from my HTC One
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Can you PM me the Link? I think the ECF is Breaking the link Automatically.
Thank you.
Fixed it. That'll show you a large selection of sites that sell them. I believe either the second or third on is where I got mine, I'm not positive though.
Sent from my HTC One
I think we all need to consider this:
If they do a partial or complete ban, we will be faced with yet another attraction of an illegal "drug" for the youth of America to sneak around and try. being illegal doesn't prevent the use, it just makes money for the attorneys defending the alleged law breakers, and draws a certain type of person to wanting to do it.
If they do a partial or complete ban, we will be faced with yet another attraction of an illegal "drug" for the youth of America to sneak around and try. being illegal doesn't prevent the use, it just makes money for the attorneys defending the alleged law breakers, and draws a certain type of person to wanting to do it.
I see how they are Doing it.
You as the Consumer are Required to pay All the Fed/State Taxes if you Receive Cigarettes from Another Country or Tax Free Area. And if you Don't, you could be Subject to Fines and Penalties.
This is my belief as well -- nicotine *is* a drug, and so the FDA will do what the FDA does with drugs -- regulate it. Hence my stockpiling of 100mg nicotine. I don't think the FDA will make it impossible to get liquid nicotine, because there's far too much potential for Uncle Sugar to be able to stick his hand into pockets that want to buy it -- I think the regulations will make it a great deal more expensive. Having a nice stock of my own laid in will help me afford to make the transition to regulated nicotine. But I think even that will be challenged in court pretty successfully, given the availability of BP's nicotine products. But the cost may still be higher than it is currently -- somebody's gotta pay all those lawyers.
Ok here is where I get confused; when you say "flavors" do you mean ALL flavors, including tobacco flavors, like Virginia, or just the food-type flavors? Because I won't care that much if sweet-flavored vapes are no longer available; it will be disappointing because this Blueberry Muffin and Banana Nut Bread are awfully good, but they're not my main substitute for cigarettes -- but if they attempt to get rid of EVERY flavor, including the tobacco flavors, then I will have a serious problem, because so far I haven't been able to DIY-replicate the taste I like.[/quote]
I agree with this too, and with the fact that it's possible to buy things from the other side of the planet via the internet -- but the weak point there is Customs -- and no, they won't be able to seize EVERY shipment that MAY contain something e-cig related, they don't have enough officers for that, they don't have enough money to hire enough officers for that, and even if they had enough officers, this is the gov't we're talking about -- DOH! Keystone Kops, y'know.
But they *could* manage to seize enough to really hurt, if they wanted to go that route.Andria
I am quite optimistic . I think the FDA is coming too late. They really can't outlaw ecigs all together. Andria is right, outlawing flavors is too messy and really not enforceable. Youth consumption is the only area where I see regulations coming that could affect the average consumer (because it will affect Internet sales).
Also we might see tighter regulation on production methods (something I actually would like) nicotine sourcing and strength (mg/ml). This will translate into higher prices.
Also we might see tighter regulation on production methods (something I actually would like) nicotine sourcing and strength (mg/ml). This will translate into higher prices.
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