FDA bans

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stevegmu

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That all works Great if a Free Market. But do the Same Rules Apply in a FDA Regulated Market?

If njoy wants to sell a Carto tank, will they Need FDA Approval to do so?

Yes, and it won't cost them $22million, or whatever the doomsdayers and armchair experts and anyone with a blog or Twitter account proclaim... My guess is their new products will easily meet regulation standards. They were designed to. At the end of the day, it will still be a Free market. Vendors who shouldn't be in business will go under. It's part of a free market...
 

zoiDman

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I don't see that happening. Some bottom dollar vendors won't be able to afford age verification; my vendors will.

OK.

I'm just Looking at the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act and one of the Clear Objectives was to Limit all Sales of Tobacco Products to Only Face-to-Face Transactions.

This is what has Got the Cigar People so Up in Arms. And why they want to be Excluded if they Smoke "Premium" Cigars.

Not sure why all the Tobacco Products would be Limited to Face-to-Face sales with the Exception of e-liquids? And of course, "Premium" Cigars if the Cigar folks get their way.
 

zoiDman

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Yes, and it won't cost them $22million, or whatever the doomsdayers and armchair experts and anyone with a blog or Twitter account proclaim... My guess is their new products will easily meet regulation standards. They were designed to. At the end of the day, it will still be a Free market. Vendors who shouldn't be in business will go under. It's part of a free market...

22 Million does seem a Tad High.

What do you think would be a Realistic Figure for Each Line Item to get FDA Approval?

20K?

30K?

50K?

More?

---

That Last Part must be a Typo. You don't Really think that a FDA Controlled Market is a Free Market do you?
 

AndriaD

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Now the FDA Writes the Rules and Regulations and has to present them to Congress for Approval. And at that time, Congress can Approve them as is. Or Ask the FDA to go back and Make Additions or Amendments.

I'm wondering... could congress at that point just tell the FDA to go peddle its papers? To get back to its REAL work of protecting us from *actually dangerous* drugs (unlike nicotine!) and leave e-cigarettes alone?

Andria
 

zoiDman

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I'm wondering... could congress at that point just tell the FDA to go peddle its papers? To get back to its REAL work of protecting us from *actually dangerous* drugs (unlike nicotine!) and leave e-cigarettes alone?

Andria

Not Very Likely.

Seeing that about the Same Congress we have Today was the Ones who wrote the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act. And the Current President is the One who Signed it into Law.

Kinda a Stretch to think that Todays Congress would do a Complete 180 on how they Want Tobacco Products to be Regulated.
 

stevegmu

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22 Million does seem a Tad High.

What do you think would be a Realistic Figure for Each Line Item to get FDA Approval?

20K?

30K?

50K?

More?

---

That Last Part must be a Typo. You don't Really think that a FDA Controlled Market is a Free Market do you?

I have no idea, neither does anyone else at this point, but I can toss around numbers like the fearmongerers.
Everything is regulated. It is a free market, with rules and regulations...
 
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zoiDman

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I have no idea, neither does anyone else at this point, but I can toss around numbers like the fearmongerers.
Everything is regulated. It is a free market, with rules and regulations...

You really Should toss out some Number. And who is Going to Fork Over the cash to pay it.

Because I think it would lend More Credibility to your Argument that Nothing is Going to Change if you did.
 

stevegmu

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You really Should toss out some Number. And who is Going to Fork Over the cash to pay it.

Because I think it would lend More Credibility to your Argument that Nothing is Going to Change if you did.

I don't have the information, don't know what the regulations will end up being; neither does anyone else...
 

zoiDman

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I don't have the information, don't know what the regulations will end up being; neither does anyone else...

So then How can you Justify your Position that Nothing is Going to Change?

After reading the FSTCA and then the Deeming Docs and then the Economic Impact Analysis, I think a Reasonable Person would Conclude that there is Going to be Dramatic/Devastating Changes to the e-Cigarette Market.
 
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pamdis

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I'm wondering... could congress at that point just tell the FDA to go peddle its papers? To get back to its REAL work of protecting us from *actually dangerous* drugs (unlike nicotine!) and leave e-cigarettes alone?

Andria

FDA will submit to Congress and Congress will have 60 days to either:

1). do nothing, which means they 'approve' and the rule goes into effect

2). enact a joint resolution of disapproval. After passage in both the house and senate, the president must also sign, and the rule does not go into effect.
 

stevegmu

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So then How can you Justify your Position that Nothing is Going to Change?

After reading the FSTCA and then the Deeming Docs and then the Economic Impact Analysis, I think a Reasonable Person would Conclude that there is Going to be Dramatic/Devastating Changes to the e-Cigarette Market.

The federal government takes a very long time to do anything. Regulations like these end up getting whittled down to nothing. That's how it works.
I have a friend who is a gun collector. Every time there is a nationally publicized shooting, there is talk of bans and runs on ammunition, clips and guns. This has been going on for years and years...

Looks like I need to go out and buy cotton balls before they are banned...:facepalm:
 

zoiDman

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You guys might want to jump to this thread and read what might happen to your.....cotton balls! :p

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...nt-letter-fda-29-state-attorneys-general.html

I wonder if this would have Any Effect on the e-Cigarette Market?

B. The FDA Should Prohibit Non-Face-to-Face Sales of Tobacco Products

At present, no FDA rule or regulation appears to address non-face-to-face sales of tobacco products. The regulations that FDA promulgated on March 19, 2010, pursuant to section 102 of the Tobacco Control Act contain an exception to age verification requirements for “mail-order sales” of cigarettes and smokeless tobacco, 21 C.F.R. §§ 1140.14(a)(2)(i), 1140.16(c)(2)(i), and the Proposed Rule would appear to maintain that exception for all tobacco products. It is unclear whether or how that exception applies to Internet sales, which were all but nonexistent when the predecessor to the § 102 regulations was promulgated in 1996. Even if the exception does not apply, the age verification methods prescribed in the regulations (“photographic identification containing the bearer’s date of birth”) are ineffective as applied to Internet sales.

The Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking Act (PACT Act), enacted in March 2010, does address the sale and distribution of cigarettes and smokeless tobacco via the Internet, e-mail, telephone, direct mail and other non-face-to-face means (which the PACT Act refers to as “remote sales”), but the PACT Act does not apply to other categories of tobacco products
 

AndriaD

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AndriaD

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The federal government takes a very long time to do anything. Regulations like these end up getting whittled down to nothing. That's how it works.
I have a friend who is a gun collector. Every time there is a nationally publicized shooting, there is talk of bans and runs on ammunition, clips and guns. This has been going on for years and years...

Looks like I need to go out and buy cotton balls before they are banned...:facepalm:

I'm still wondering how any of this applies to cotton balls... Those are sold in COSMETICS departments!

Andria
 

zoiDman

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The federal government takes a very long time to do anything. Regulations like these end up getting whittled down to nothing. That's how it works.
...

I hope you are Right Steve. But on this one, I Don't think you are.

The Cigar people may get Much of what they Want. And the Pipe Crowd could see some Exemptions. But I think that e-Liquids are going to take the Full Brunt of the FSTCA.
 
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