FDA deeming rule could happen tomorrow

[sparkky1]

Overstated, yes. Benign, NO.

There are 3 schools,

1. Highly addictive and dangerous

2. Kind of addictive

3. Not addictive

It is kind of hard to tell someone that has used nicotine for over 40 years that it is not addictive.

The FDA of course will always error on the side of caution when it comes to public health. It's a perfect built in excuse to regulate.

But the study's have been published since 2004
MAOIs

 

[Lessifer]

Has anyone had a Chance to look at the Official (Draft) PMTA for Electronic Nicotine Delievery Systems (ENDS) Guidance that the FDA now says is OK to Look at?

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/Labeling/RulesRegulationsGuidance/UCM499352.pdf

It kinda makes me want to Puke.

Haven't read it all, but this is always going to be the killer:
Nonusers, such as youth, never users, and former users, who may initiate or relapse 1415 tobacco use with the new tobacco product;

 

[zoiDman]

Haven't read it all, but this is always going to be the killer:
Nonusers, such as youth, never users, and former users, who may initiate or relapse 1415 tobacco use with the new tobacco product;

I've only Skimmed over it. But it seems a Lot Worse than what the TVECA (Unofficial) PMTA Guidance looked like.

 

[sparkky1]

The drug route would have killed the market before these last few years of aggressive ecig development, so the tobacco route was definitely the lesser of two evils. This situation still has room for legal challenges, so the game isn't entirely over.

Agree to an extent, medical DR's are still pushing chantix, even with all the deaths and side effects known, how could big pharma prove vaping would be more dangerous than their drugs, not to mention the same "danger" is in ALL their NRT's, so scientifically they know inhaling nicotine poses a
bigger threat than going insane in two months time ?

 

[redrebel821]

Agree to an extent, medical DR's are still pushing chantix, even with all the deaths and side effects known, how could big pharma prove vaping would be more dangerous than their drugs, not to mention the same "danger" is in ALL their NRT's, so scientifically they know inhaling nicotine poses a
bigger threat than going insane in two months time ?

As someone who tried both Wellbutrin and Chantax with disastrous results, I'll stick to my minuscule amounts of nicotine.

 

[Bunnykiller]

ya really want to know what the undeniable truth is?? we have all of these pretty mods and atties and no juice to put in them

thats harder to fathom than the expansion of the universe

 

[sparkky1]

As someone who tried both Wellbutrin and Chantax with disastrous results, I'll stick to my minuscule amounts of nicotine.

Yes and the "DR's" know this ! but what are they pushing ?

 

[Lessifer]

@zoiDman This part has always stuck in my craw:

910 (6) The likelihood, based on the research findings contained in your application, of
911 consumers using the new tobacco product in conjunction with other tobacco products;
912 (7) The likelihood, based on the research findings contained in your application, of
913 consumers switching to the product instead of ceasing tobacco product use or using an
914 FDA-approved tobacco cessation product (because use of ENDS products includes
915 inherent risk above quitting altogether or the use of an FDA-approved NRT);

Basically, if vapor products do what, by most accounts, they're intended to do, that's considered a negative in the PMTA process.

 

[sparkky1]

So no significant concerns with NRT's say's the FDA but because of sweet flavorings that are "confirmed" to attract under age / never smokers now vaping nicotine, it becomes a what ? threat to somebody's stock shares ?
Like minors don't do anything else stupid ?

 

[Lessifer]

So no significant concerns with NRT's say's the FDA but because of sweet flavorings that are "confirmed" to attract under age / never smokers now vaping nicotine, it becomes a what ? threat to somebody's stock shares ?
Like minors don't do anything else stupid ?

They haven't even given any evidence that it's stupid... they don't have to. All they have to do is call it tobacco and watch the parents cower.

 

[zoiDman]

@zoiDman This part has always stuck in my craw:


Basically, if vapor products do what, by most accounts, they're intended to do, that's considered a negative in the PMTA process.

A Lot of this Sticks in my Craw. The Dual-Use issue is something that is Highly Debatable. Because if you View e-Cigarettes as Harm Reduction (as I Do), then a Dual User is Reducing their Harm by EVERY Cigarette that they do Not Smoke.

BTW - Mr. Zeller was on the PBS Newshour tonight. The Interviewer did a Good Job of asking Balanced and Intelligent Questions. Unfortunately, Mr. Zeller seemed to take a purely Regulatory "Company Line" in his answers. And Deflected many times by playing the "Save the Children Card".

Skyrocketing teen use of e-cigarettes leads to new regulations

 

[redrebel821]

Yes and the "DR's" know this ! but what are they pushing ?

My doc saw what happened.....first hand in her office....i went kind of Hulk...lmaoooo...she decided I was right when I said I didn't feel right and had some mood swings..

 

[redrebel821]

A Lot of this Sticks in my Craw. The Dual-Use issue is something that is Highly Debatable. Because if you View e-Cigarettes as Harm Reduction (as I Do), then a Dual User is Reducing their Harm by EVERY Cigarette that they do Not Smoke.

BTW - Mr. Zeller was on the PBS Newshour tonight. The Interviewer did a Good Job of asking Balanced and Intelligent Questions. Unfortunately, Mr. Zeller seemed to take a purely Regulatory "Company Line" in his answers. And Deflected many times by playing the "Save the Children Card".

Skyrocketing teen use of e-cigarettes leads to new regulations

Maybe I'm naive.....I've never seen a teen vape.....and I live in a big city! Now, I HAVE seen them smoke....so I guess their logic is more flawed than ever!

 

[redrebel821]

So no significant concerns with NRT's say's the FDA but because of sweet flavorings that are "confirmed" to attract under age / never smokers now vaping nicotine, it becomes a what ? threat to somebody's stock shares ?
Like minors don't do anything else stupid ?

And no adults like sweet flavors....lol

 

[crxess]

So 46,000 Children and adults - currently using E-cigarettes are the Base for All E-cig user Data?

Are 70% of Vapers really still smoking?
If they were a PAD Smoker are they still smoking a PAD?
Have they actually cut back to a few a Week?<<<<<<< Is this reduction Really to be Negated in showing a REDUCTION in SMOKING? and PROOF they are still smokers?

Zeller can join Gantz and both can stop breathing any time now. I will miss neither.

I'd like to Puke a Cereal Vape all over them and their FOR the Children MASK of Deception.

What about the MILLIONS of ADULTS Vaping By choice?

Zeller is out to convince Mainstream America the FDA is enacting AGE Restrictions and SAFETY Packaging.....................While doing everything Possible to Hide the other 498 Pages of Regulatory Actions.

In a Real World Scenario - No Adult would object to Age restrictions or Safe packaging. Zeller is a Self centered Politition Protecting his Agenda.

 

[redrebel821]

So 46,000 Children and adults - currently using E-cigarettes are the Base for All E-cig user Data?

Are 70% of Vapers really still smoking?
If they were a PAD Smoker are they still smoking a PAD?
Have they actually cut back to a few a Week?<<<<<<< Is this reduction Really to be Negated in showing a REDUCTION in SMOKING? and PROOF they are still smokers?

Zeller can join Gantz and both can stop breathing any time now. I will miss neither.

I'd like to Puke a Cereal Vape all over them and their FOR the Children MASK of Deception.

What about the MILLIONS of ADULTS Vaping By choice?

Zeller is out to convince Mainstream America the FDA is enacting AGE Restrictions and SAFETY Packaging.....................While doing everything Possible to Hide the other 498 Pages of Regulatory Actions.

In a Real World Scenario - No Adult would object to Age restrictions or Safe packaging. Zeller is a Self centered Politition Protecting his Agenda.

I'll provide the cereal vape if I can video it?!?!

 

[crxess]

I'll provide the cereal vape if I can video it?!?!

Don't press your luck! We are already talking Go finding my Bail

.......and Don't think I didn't leave my on that Zeller interview

 

[Lessifer]

So 46,000 Children and adults - currently using E-cigarettes are the Base for All E-cig user Data?

Are 70% of Vapers really still smoking?
If they were a PAD Smoker are they still smoking a PAD?
Have they actually cut back to a few a Week?<<<<<<< Is this reduction Really to be Negated in showing a REDUCTION in SMOKING? and PROOF they are still smokers?

Zeller can join Gantz and both can stop breathing any time now. I will miss neither.

I'd like to Puke a Cereal Vape all over them and their FOR the Children MASK of Deception.

What about the MILLIONS of ADULTS Vaping By choice?

Zeller is out to convince Mainstream America the FDA is enacting AGE Restrictions and SAFETY Packaging.....................While doing everything Possible to Hide the other 498 Pages of Regulatory Actions.

In a Real World Scenario - No Adult would object to Age restrictions or Safe packaging. Zeller is a Self centered Politition Protecting his Agenda.

I agree with everything except the Age restriction. I won't believe in an age restriction until someone proves that vaping is more harmful than regular consumption of Red Bull. There is no more justification for an age restriction than there is for any of the other regulations, but we can't argue that point because any time a pro vaper makes a statement it's "of course we support an age ban."

If vapers think children need to be protected from vaping, the FDA is right.

 

[mgmrick]

And if the legal usa market dries up the whole industry dries up. Don't think your going to buy stuff from china... production will cease

 

[zoiDman]

Maybe I'm naive.....I've never seen a teen vape.....and I live in a big city! Now, I HAVE seen them smoke....so I guess their logic is more flawed than ever!

I have seen Many Teens vaping. Don't Like it. But it Is what it Is.

I think at some Point people have to Understand that you just Can't Stop Teens from doing some things. Not Condoning or Advocating selling to Minors.

But I think Stopping Teens from Using e-Cigarettes will have about the Same Results, or Slightly worse, than Stopping Teens from Smoking.