FDA related question about ecigs

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Xxsm0kerxX

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hey guys, i have been vaping for a while now, but i really dont know what going on with the FDA and ecigs. Anyways I was at a local store and the guy said to the best of his knowledge that the FDA no long has any say on ecig products and that the study they published a year ago was invalid?

Can someone tell me whats up wiht ecigs and the FDA. i.e. should ecigs be FDA approved to be for sale?
 

Iluvthearmy

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Iluvthearmy

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If it were to be a NRT then it would be pulled from the market for a good long testing period. This testing must be funded by the company supplying the product. Being that the e-cig industry isn't the gigantic corporation that most gums and patches are pushed by, I've heard many folks say that the industry financially surviving the testing would be pretty unlikely. Plus all these great little flavors, batteries, cartos, etc. would be unavailable mostly because it's small time business owners producing them. Just google nicotine replacement therapy (NRT) options and look at pricing and you'll see another reason it would be bad for the FDA to stick it's greedy little fingers into our lives.
 

Iluvthearmy

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Isnt the fda gaining control over a ecigs bad for us anyways?

Yeah it's bad and good really, right now there aren't any quality controls setup. So theoretically vendors could sell us garbage and get away with it. But since that is such a rare occurrence with this community, I can really only focus on the negatives.

man I got ahead of myself, didn't mean to split that into 3 posts.
 

cyberwolf

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There's no way that we were going to get away with being unregulated forever, and it probably wouldn't be a good thing anyway. The FDA was seeking to regulate ecigs as a drug delivery device due to the fact that a lot of early advertising promoted it as a way to "quit" smoking. In their view, this made it a smoking cessation drug delivery device like the patch or Chantix. That's why you now see vaping promoted as the "alternative" to tobacco that it really is. The FDA would rather it be a drug because that's where their money comes from. We would rather have it classified as tobacco, because even if it is taxed, at least it's still on the market. The so-called "study" you mentioned was a terribly flawed and widely discredited, but still manages to be the only thing most people have heard about electronic cigarettes.
 

Iluvthearmy

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You're right that a little regulation could be good, but I'm concerned that the regulations will get out of hand as far as flavors, strengths, device voltage etc..you know, all the little things we all love so much. Not to mention the death of internet vendors. That would be the last nail in my coffin. There isn't a brick and mortar vendor for at least an hours drive from me.
 
I know this will sound a little humorous but here it is. The FDA regulating ecigs is a good idea, it will provide the prevention of inferior or even downright dangerous designs as well as prevent the sale of e liquids that may contain harmful substances. What is more, they would require all e liquid manufacturers to properly label their liquids as well as requiring child proof caps so that they aren't accidentally consumed by children. The FDA regulating ecigs is a bad idea. The FDA regulating ecigs under the tobacco classification means the they can put the same restrictions of ecigs as they have with cigarettes. I remember when you used to be able to get cigarettes with flavors like honey, berry, vanilla and so on. Now they want to even take away the option of smoking menthols. Their argument on that one is that the smooth minty flavor of menthols are more likely to cause underage teens or even children to smoke. They believe the more pleasant flavor of menthol will of course lead them to eventually smoke regular cigarettes because, as we all know, that is what everyone wants more than anything is to smoke something that is even less pleasant to smoke. I won't even get into the stupidity of the argument. What is more, while ecigs falling under the tobacco classification is better the that of an NRT, it also means that ecig sellers and producers can't make the claim that it can help you quit smoking. This is bad because it eliminates a whole group of people who could quit smoking by using the ecig whom every doctor will say should quit smoking tobacco from being made aware of the health benefits of ecigs use over smoking cigarettes. This is a bad idea because smokers keep killing themselves and suffering from health problems because they aren't made aware that there is a means by which they can get off of tobacco products. The FDA regulating ecigs is both good and bad no matter how they are able to regulate it and we the Public are the ones who suffer for it.
 

chriscmc

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I agree that there are good and bad point to FDA regulation. I think that the pity is so many people get concerned about government oversight that they forget that WE are supposed to oversee the government! With such low overall voter turnout in the US, the "silent majority" quietly give in to what is supposed to be best for all as decided in Washington. If only more people would speak up and truly make this a democracy, then I think we would all be in a better place, but it requires more personal responsibility and for people to make the effort. Unfortunately it seems that too few are willing...
 

rolygate

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hey guys, i have been vaping for a while now, but i really dont know what going on with the FDA and ecigs. Anyways I was at a local store and the guy said to the best of his knowledge that the FDA no long has any say on ecig products and that the study they published a year ago was invalid?

Can someone tell me whats up wiht ecigs and the FDA. i.e. should ecigs be FDA approved to be for sale?

Electronic cigarettes are legal and always have been (and we now know they probably always will be).

Because the FDA derives their funding from the pharmaceutical industry, they tend to follow the pharma industry's agenda most of the time. This conflicts strongly with their duty to manage public health issues. The pharma industry will suffer badly financially from the growing use of e-cigarettes because less people - and eventually very few people indeed - will buy NRTs, which is the generic term for quit-smoking drugs. As a result the FDA tried their best to ban e-cigarettes by attempting to classify them as drugs, which would have meant that 99.99% of products would have been removed from the market. To begin this process they tried to prevent imports. Two e-cigarette companies challenged them in court and won. They won two later appeals, which halted the FDA's plans.

Because this route failed, the FDA needs to find a new way to attempt to limit sales of e-cigarettes as this is what they are required to do by their sources of funding (public health or logic are not relevant here). As the courts decided that e-cigarette products are tobacco products, this means that the FDA must now attempt to restrict sales by introducing regulations that make them less attractive to buyers.

We have about a year or so before regulations filter down into the market, assuming that such regulations are not blocked by further legal action against the FDA, as seems possible. First the FDA must propose regulations, then they must 'listen' to stakeholders, then they can apply them. Unless the regulations are opposed we can expect them to become stricter and stricter, with the ultimate aim of reducing e-cigarette sales to the benefit of the pharma industry.

However it is likely that, since the courts seem less vulnerable to the pressures that have completely taken over the FDA, any new regulations will have a tough path to acceptance. Worst case: everything you like about e-cigarettes will be regulated away. Best case: they won't get away with anything at all. The end result is likely to be somewhere in the middle.

But there is a long way to go before this impacts us, at this time. The import and use of e-cigarettes is now enshrined in law. It is beyond doubt that some form of taxation will be introduced at some stage, if only due to pressure by government treasury departments. At the current rate of market penetration e-cigarette users will comprise 25% of smokers (i.e., there will be 25% less tobacco smokers) by 2025 and possibly even by 2020. You must be able to see that a loss of 25% of the vast sums brought in by tobacco tax will not go unchallenged.

As regards health implications - nobody knows at this time. The truth is that they cannot be absolutely safe, as some people (especially those with pre-existing medical conditions) will prove intolerant to e-cigarette use and some morbidity (illness) and even mortality (death) is likely to occur, but on a small scale as far as we can see. It's also true that their use must be hundreds of times safer than smoking tobacco.

Unless you have a pre-existing lung disease, or are pregnant, there doesn't seem, at this time, to be much in the way of contra-indications. Together with the fact that the FDA took a beating and need to regroup, it means that things will continue as they are for a year or so.

In terms of sensible regulation, and quality control, that is something that ideally should be addressed by the electronic cigarette industry. The less they do in this regard, the more force the FDA's argument that government regulation is needed will have. Every month the industry does nothing about this is a month closer to FDA regulations that cannot be logically opposed, since somebody somewhere needs to be looking at these issues. Indeed there is a strong argument that if a robust and effective trade association with regulations in place had been in existence at the time of Judge Leon's verdict, he might just have decided not to classify e-cigs as a tobacco product.

Like anybody else with more than three brain cells, he could see that somebody needs to be looking at quality controls for a product that millions of people will be inhaling for a lifetime.
 
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