FDA to propose rule on ecigarettes Monday 4-28-2014

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Mowgli

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From Facebook:


Why you should Oppose FDA Deeming Regs!

Business owners:

By the time most of you read this, the FDA Center for tobacco Products will have already released the several hundred page "deeming" regulation regarding electronic cigarettes and other nicotine and tobacco products.

Please read this comment I quickly wrote earlier tonight on why vapers and vendors should OPPOSE deeming regulation. I have reproduced it below this e-mail.

Predictably, the news stories out right now are largely being told from the FDA's point of view. The FDA is trying to sell this regulation to lawmakers, public health groups, and industry, so they are of course aiming to have their regulation portrayed in the most positive light possible in the media.

Nonetheless, from what I can gather from these news articles and my knowledge of the tobacco Control Act, the deeming regulation will be a disaster for e-cigarette product innovation, small and medium-sized businesses, and consumers. This is not a surprise to me, as people and groups like Bill Godshall, Dr. Michael Siegel, CASAA, SFATA, myself, etc. have long-noted that regulation of e-cigarettes under the Tobacco Control Act would likely do more harm than good, increase costs to consumers without benefits, and lead to products being removed from the market.

Please do not accept interview requests by journalists and TV reporters on this subject until you fully understand the ramifications of these regulations. Simply tell the reporters that, like any rational business owner, you won't be commenting until you have had the chance to actually read the proposed regulations.

For business owners and investors wishing to understand the subject more, I offer consulting services. Please call or email me for more details.

Best,
Gregory Conley, JD, MBA
231 Church Road
Medford, NJ 08055
(609) 947 - 8059
Gregory Conley Consulting, LLC
Twitter / LinkedIn

--------------------

A Brief Explanation of why the FDA Deeming Regulation Should Be Opposed
This is NOT good news and vendors and vapers should vehemently OPPOSE these regulations, as they will work to the benefit of large tobacco and e-cigarette companies with Wall Street investors that don't make the products used by 98% of this subreddit's users, while potentially shutting down hundreds or thousands of small and medium-sized businesses thanks to an extremely expensive, resource-heavy, and arbitrary system setup by the Family Smoking Prevention & Tobacco Control Act.

This is actually worse than I expected.

Two years after the regulation is written, e-cigarette companies will have to put in 'new tobacco product' applications for any product released to the market after February 25, 2007.*** This is not mere registration. This is a lengthy and expensive process. If you don't file an application, your product is banned. If you file an application and the FDA finds that your product shouldn't be on the market for one of a variety of reasons (including simply 'You failed to submit adequate evidence of x, y, and z.'), it can be pulled from the market.

After that 2 year date, any new e-cigarette product must be approved by the FDA before it goes to market. If the FDA does not approve your product, it cannot be brought to market. This is not a fast process, as evidenced by a Government Accountability Office report that was highly critical of huge delays that were and still are happening at the FDA Center for Tobacco Products. http://www.gao.gov/assets/660/657451.pdf

For just a sample of what a "new tobacco product" application is like, see here. This a document from when the FDA refused to even file (let alone approve) four "new tobacco product" applications : http://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/Labeling/MarketingandAdvertising/UCM389515.pdf

Also see this snippet from a Lancet article (behind a paywall) by Dr. Lawrence Deyton, the former Director of the Center for Tobacco Products, in which the burden that will be put on e-cigarette and e-liquid companies is outlined: The burden is on the manufacturer to provide evidence that permitting the produc - Pastebin.com

This is bad news for e-cigarette consumers. The chance of a flavor ban or an online sales ban from the start was never really an option. This prospect was here all along and is not positive.

*** There is also something called "substantial equivalence" which is a smaller, but still expensive, loop to jump through. However, FDA guidance on substantial equivalence, and their past decisions on other applications, indicate that it would be a fruitless effort to prove substantial equivalence for a 2016 e-cig product vs. a 2007 product.

Vapers should not only oppose this deeming regulation, but also support vendors that stick up for their businesses and consumers
 

sonicdsl

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On their page it states "FDA proposes to extend its tobacco authority to additional tobacco products, including e-cigarettes". To that I say no dice. Vaporizing is not a tobacco product

Actually, the FDA considers it a tobacco product due to nicotine being extracted from tobacco. It was that or drug delivery device, which is worse, and they were sued over that claim in 2009 and lost in court to the ecig manufacturers that sued for that reason.
 

shelzmike

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Actually, the FDA considers it a tobacco product due to nicotine being extracted from tobacco. It was that or drug delivery device, which is worse, and they were sued over that claim in 2009 and lost in court to the ecig manufacturers that sued for that reason.

While I think that it is a far stretch to say pure nicotine, flavorings, and PG/VG is a tobacco product the way it is being perceived, I think that even if synthetic nicotine (which is possible) tries to circumvent the law, they will find a way to regulate that as well.

Mike
 

Bobbilly

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Actually, the FDA considers it a tobacco product due to nicotine being extracted from tobacco. It was that or drug delivery device, which is worse, and they were sued over that claim in 2009 and lost in court to the ecig manufacturers that sued for that reason.
All I can say is the way I read it is they are proposing the tobacco product act be extended to vapourizers. I hope that gets shot down. The third option is a separate category
 

SensesFailed

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I'm actually OK with some of the proposed regulations, obviously the selling to minors and the regulation that states companies have to list what is on their product, obviously I really don't see problems with those, but I'm obviously worried when it comes to the FDA and overstepping pushing regulations that have no business being pushed.
 

DasBluCig

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The future of e-cig commercials.
I wonder if they will go something like this.


Yep!!
That pretty much sums up ALL sponsors of your "(Insert favorite TV network) Evening news"!!!:facepalm::evil:
I'm about ready to straight out "ask my doctor" just how much Big Pharma is lining his/her pockets....!!!
And they want to "control" my glycerin, flavoring and WATER???
Oh....of course, I nearly forgot......NICOTINE!!:(
And my wife wonders why I avoid doctors like the plague....!!:glare:
"A doctor fell into a well
And broke his collarbone....
Doctors should attend the SICK.....
And....leave the WELL.....ALONE!!!"
(Ends rant.....returns to vaping.....):D
Happy (vaping) Trails!
 
I agree 100%. I'm ready for regulation and standardization, if we finally have them, we can come up with a game plan on improving the industry. Illinois isn't the only state that has made proposals hurting the ecig industry.

The only problem I see is that if and when the FDA does start regulating e-cigs and vaporizers, They are going to tax it like cigarettes and its going to end up costing small shop owners a fortune to keep their doors open. The other problem I see is that they are going off of almost no research on the e-liquids, I.E. Health risks etcetera. Yeah we get Nicotine, VG or PG and 1 or two other things in our system, but is it enough to do any serious damage? Not sure. They don't even know that, yet they are trying to push rule changes based on what? Lack of research and a knee jerk reaction to stories of kids with irresponsible parents and people who try to inject this stuff. If they do regulate it, I just pray to god that they don't start taxing it like they did cigarettes.
 

anha

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Personally I am done worrying about all of this. I have a 1000ml of 100mg and 2 liters of 36mg base in the freezer, can probably convert a mini flashlight into a battery base, have a few hundred yards of wire and not worried that cotton will be regulated any time soon. I'm not sure it would work but I'm going to try steeping vanilla pods in plain vg and pg.... if that works I may not even have to worry about where my next order of flavoring come from.
 

joesquid

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Everything from your drip tip to your battery cap is listed as a tobacco product, and will need FDA approval if this passes.


I spent about an hour going over the proposed rules and didn't see any list. Can you tell me where (what page) you found that. All the verbage I found said the contrary.
 

tj99959

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    I spent about an hour going over the proposed rules and didn't see any list. Can you tell me where (what page) you found that. All the verbage I found said the contrary.

    Watch this:


    We need to convey to the FDA that hardwhare safety should be placed under the control of the Consumer Protection Agency ... not the FDA. (or does the FDA want to oversee the QC of baby cribs as well)
    As written, the FDA regulation would regulate everything used except for the "raw materials" (SS, aluminum, brass, plastic, etc.)
     
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    joesquid

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    Excellent video! Most important part comes at 16:50 where he talks about "What we can do". The answer is provide comments to the FDA. BTW...I found the wording. It's on page 43 and I think it leave some things open for interpretation. Pasting it below.

    "FDA believes that components and parts of tobacco products are those items that are
    included as part of a finished tobacco product or intended or expected to be used by consumers
    in the consumption of a tobacco product. Components and parts that would be covered under this
    proposal include those items sold separately or as part of kits sold or distributed for consumer
    use or further manufacturing or included as part of a finished tobacco product. Such examples
    would include air/smoke filters, tubes, papers, pouches, or flavorings used for any of the
    proposed deemed tobacco products (such as flavored hookah charcoals and hookah flavor
    enhancers) or cartridges for e-cigarettes."
     

    CassiusCloud

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    Excellent video! Most important part comes at 16:50 where he talks about "What we can do". The answer is provide comments to the FDA. BTW...I found the wording. It's on page 43 and I think it leave some things open for interpretation. Pasting it below.

    "FDA believes that components and parts of tobacco products are those items that are
    included as part of a finished tobacco product or intended or expected to be used by consumers
    in the consumption of a tobacco product. Components and parts that would be covered under this
    proposal include those items sold separately or as part of kits sold or distributed for consumer
    use or further manufacturing or included as part of a finished tobacco product. Such examples
    would include air/smoke filters, tubes, papers, pouches, or flavorings used for any of the
    proposed deemed tobacco products (such as flavored hookah charcoals and hookah flavor
    enhancers) or cartridges for e-cigarettes."
    ya i'm not seeing when i am reading it ,anything other than mostly disposable accessories.
    i'm not seeing them going after our mods..
    the more i read this the more i see cigalikes, juice and cartos.

    Oops,forgot to leave the link i'm reading it from..
    The federal register 04/24/2014
    https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2014/04/25/2014-09491/deeming-tobacco-products-to-be-subject-to-the-federal-food-drug-and-cosmetic-act-as-amended-by-the#h-6
     
    Last edited:

    malkuth

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    Excellent video! Most important part comes at 16:50 where he talks about "What we can do". The answer is provide comments to the FDA. BTW...I found the wording. It's on page 43 and I think it leave some things open for interpretation. Pasting it below.

    "FDA believes that components and parts of tobacco products are those items that are
    included as part of a finished tobacco product or intended or expected to be used by consumers
    in the consumption of a tobacco product. Components and parts that would be covered under this
    proposal include those items sold separately or as part of kits sold or distributed for consumer
    use or further manufacturing or included as part of a finished tobacco product. Such examples
    would include air/smoke filters, tubes, papers, pouches, or flavorings used for any of the
    proposed deemed tobacco products (such as flavored hookah charcoals and hookah flavor
    enhancers) or cartridges for e-cigarettes."

    It is interesting to note that they will cover food colorings and flavorings. (Which, btw, are already FDA approved.) Flavorings are specifically mentioned, as they (apparently) will be on a rampage to eliminate flavored e-juice (for the children, you know).
     
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