EU Finnish Import Law, please help

[RAJ_rios]

Hi all, I'm a US citizen but I live in Finland and I've recently become concerned about my order to epipemods.

I ordered 100ML of 6mg Long Bottom Leaf, and about 30ML worth of 6mg sample flavors. There was a 2 week period without any tracking updates, but then I got these updates:

June 3, 2015 13:17 ARRIVAL AT PICK-UP POINT
June 3, 2015 11:31 CUSTOMS CLEARANCE
June 3, 2015 11:31 PROCESSED THROUGH SORT FACILITY

So now that the tracking appears to say that my package is in Vantaa (about 200KM away) and is ready to be picked up from (I'm assuming) customs, I've been looking into <i>why</i> it's there. And from what I've found, based on regulation from 2011, it's illegal in Finland to buy nicotine products from the US? So it's going to stay in customs until I go there and they tell me I can't have it? Or has the law been changed since then?

My Finnish language skills aren't really good enough to read lawbooks (I think most Finns would have a hard time with this honestly) so I'm hoping that some experienced people could give me a hand and tell me how to proceed.

Apua! Thanks for viewing.

 

[twgbonehead]

Don't know about Finland, but usually "Customs Clearance" means it got through customs. Give it another couple of days and see what happens.

 

[Red Winter]

June 3, 2015 13:17 ARRIVAL AT PICK-UP POINT
June 3, 2015 11:31 CUSTOMS CLEARANCE
June 3, 2015 11:31 PROCESSED THROUGH SORT FACILITY

So now that the tracking appears to say that my package is in Vantaa (about 200KM away) and is ready to be picked up from (I'm assuming) customs,

Finn here.

Firstly, plop the tracking number to Itella's website (language selection is near top right corner). You should see something like this:

Item ready for pick up at a Post Office collection point against a notice of arrival or item code. Pick up from parcel point with locker code.
Registration:
22.4.2015 07:34:07
Location:
CITY XX/ POST OFFICE XXXXX

If it really is 200km away, call Itella and ask for transfer to your nearest post office.

 

[C0NPAQ]

I Germany, nicotine is illegal to import from outside (possibly also inside) the EU under criminal code, similar to aspirin, because falls under pharmaceutical law.

In Germany, you can just throw away the customs notice, order again and you are safe. You lose the money on the order, but they will not pursue it legally if you don't import hard drugs like opioids in considerable quantities. The reason is that it doesn't pay off for them. At the point that you receive the notice, they have no confirmation that it even could be delivered to a real person (could be fake name or address doesn't exist) and even if, you could still argue that you have not ordered it.

Converesely if you go pick up the package at customs they will have to open and inspect it officially. They will have a match of your ID and the parcel recipient, possibly an invoice inside. You do sort of acknowledge that you were expecting a package from the sender mentioned on the package, even if you do not outright say it, even if you can't read the sender (Chinese or Russian letters) and even if you tell the customs officer that you don't know what it is about. It is harder to argue your way out of this, because only your actions will be put on official records. Those official records are then used to make a case towards a state attourney. This increases chances from essentially zero to "maybe", that they can or will actually forward and pursue the matter.

I don't know how it works in Finland, but consider this if you are tempted to take any steps. Taking no steps at all is the preferable choice.

 

[RAJ_rios]

Finn here.

Firstly, plop the tracking number to Itella's website (language selection is near top right corner). You should see something like this:

If it really is 200km away, call Itella and ask for transfer to your nearest post office.

Events
Item has been registered
Registration:4.6.2015 07:06:15
Location:HKI VANTAA, ULKOMAANTERMINAALI 01000
Itella has received advance information of the item.
Registration:4.6.2015 07:06:15
Location:HKI VANTAA, ULKOMAANTERMINAALI 01000
The delivery has arrived at the customs warehouse. You have 20 days from the day of arrival of the delivery to take care of the customs declaration. Arrived:
Registration:3.6.2015 13:17:59
Location:TULLIPOSTI / Vantaa 01530 01534
Item arrived in the destination country.
Registration:3.6.2015 11:31:10
Location:HKI VANTAA, ULKOMAANTERMINAALI 01000
The item has been submitted to customs clearance
Registration:3.6.2015 11:31:10
Location:HKI VANTAA, ULKOMAANTERMINAALI 01000
Item posted in country of origin.
Registration:19.5.2015 11:18:00
Location:Ulkomaa/Foreign country 01000


Yesterday I received a letter from Posti saying products exceeding 22€ from outside EU needs to be processed by customs (Tulli) I can declare the item online (and pay online then have it shipped to me I presume), I can go in person to any customs office (there's one in my city as well apparently) and then have it shipped to me from Vantaa/Helsinki, or finally I can have the postal service (Posti) do a customs declaration for me (for a fee) in which I give them all information I'd need for the other options, which are : Receipt/order confirmation/proof of payment, my social security number and a description of the contents.

So now I'm stuck.

I Germany, nicotine is illegal to import from outside (possibly also inside) the EU under criminal code, similar to aspirin, because falls under pharmaceutical law.

I can't find up-to-date info but I fear it's the same for Finland.

In Germany, you can just throw away the customs notice, order again and you are safe.

Now how is it that I can order again, wouldn't this same exact thing happen?


I'm not really sure how to proceed from here. I have 54 USD worth of desperately needed (I had an analogue yesterday and am so ashamed) ecig fluid trapped in customs. I don't know if I should just fill the paperwork, or if there's something else I can/should do in order to get my fluid.

Please help!

 

[C0NPAQ]

Play it safe, don't respond to the customs notice and deny everything. 54 USD is not that big of a deal. If they really want to pick on you and the legal issues are similar to those in Germany, they can fry you big time for importing just 3 packs of Aspirin. Lawyer cost, daily fines, prison sentence is possible, etc. Though, usually those cases are either just dropped because they are too insignificant, or they make you pay a small sum to have them dropped (like 200 euro) without legal judgement hence no resulting criminal record. People got into huge issues though for importing larger quantities that turned out to be about half a kilo of Aspirin total. Same story for unusual substances that no one really knew the significance of until they basically had a trial about it. Again, this is Germany. I don't know about Finland.

Customs do only random samples. Although they check certain combinations of origin->destination and shapes of packages more than others of course. The chances are low that your package will be intercepted twice in a row. Order somewhere else, maybe. Often it is just very superficial formal stuff that causes a package to end up at customs. Like not declaring the invoice amount properly or that the declaration or recipient is written in foreign characters.

I doubt that they throw each and every package into customs for inspection in Finland. Just imagine the insane effort involved. Though Finland is much smaller than Germany.

 

[RAJ_rios]

I doubt that they throw each and every package into customs for inspection in Finland. Just imagine the insane effort involved. Though Finland is much smaller than Germany.

The thing is, in Finland when you import anything at all over 22 euros it goes to customs. There is a 24% tax on all items from outside the EU over that price. I've even paid taxes on birthday presents sent to me from abroad. So I'm not surprised at all it wound up there, I'm wondering how to get it out. Or is it really such a big deal that I ordered from America (which I did not know at the time/do not know if it is still prohibited) that I should abandon the package completely?

 

[C0NPAQ]

I can only speak for Germany, not Finland, and here it is such a huge deal (though, as mentioned most often they don't make the fuss). All that matters is the country of origin. If it is inside the EU, then EU law overrides national law and makes the import legal (depends on the drug you buy but given that it can be sold in the country of origin without restriction, it must equally be sellable to other EU countries). If EU law doesn't apply, the import of any listed pharmaceutical substance is illegal by national criminal code (maximum prison sentence is 2.5 years iirc). And this includes even Aspirin.

Over here, anything above 20€ must also be registered at customs because of taxes. However, they don't actually run all the parcels through customs to open and inspect them, that would be nuts. It is commonplace that private individuals don't register their imports at customs, most even don't know how. They don't even make money off your USD 50 purchases, given the bureaucratic effort involved. So in the end, no one cares about it.

Here it clearly says that it is prohibited: Private imports of medicinal products - Fimea

Since nicotine is a pharmaceutical substance, there is no reason to believe that your e-liquid will be not treated under that law (whatever it is, criminal code or not).

 

[Hattivatti]

SInce you have received a custom clearance it means you will receive you packet after you have paid the taxes. Otherwise you packet had been confiscated and you had received letter from the customs saying that it is illegal to import nicotine outside EU/EFTA and those liquids have been confiscated. In that case you will not get any bill/sue from the court.

Next time place you order from EU vendor to avoid hassling with the customs.

You can import for you personal use nicotine containing liquids up to 3 months use in one order. No-one has not yet defined how much the amount is but if you consume e.g 3ml/day then it is 90*3=270ml. If you are ordering huge amounts of liquid you have to explain to the customs that that amount is for you personal 3 month's use.

 

[C0NPAQ]

Does it really work like this in Finland? You could just order all kinds of drugs from anywhere with fake details, temporarily put a fake name on your doorbell, then either receive customs clearance (= good to pick up) or notice that it is illegal (= remove fake name from doorbell abadon package)?

I mean, that's essentially how it works here too. But why would they reveal it to you in advance? Seems a bit unlikely.

 

[Hattivatti]

The custom is very used to detect zero-nicotine liquids coming from outside EU, so they nowadays don't bother that much. All packages will be screened and will be opened if something suspicious is shown in the x-ray. Usually the customs concentrates to illegal drugs which are not available to sell anywhere in the world and for fake drugs.

There is a court ruling from Feb 2011 which allows Finnish vapers to order this 3 months use of over the counter drugs from the EU/EFTA without and doctor prescription.

Few years a go the customs confiscated many vape orders coming from the USA because they containing nicotine but nowadays vapers know it is illegal so they order zero nics and probably custom is just tired to open all of those packages. All what happend the packages were confiscated and a letter was sent to inform about this confiscation. If the package has been confiscated you don't have to pay taxes.

I still recommend to place nicotine liquid orders to EU vendors.

 

[RAJ_rios]

SInce you have received a custom clearance it means you will receive you packet after you have paid the taxes. Otherwise you packet had been confiscated and you had received letter from the customs saying that it is illegal to import nicotine outside EU/EFTA and those liquids have been confiscated. In that case you will not get any bill/sue from the court.

Thank you! I'll get this squared away tomorrow. I'll choose the option of them filling the form and billing me, providing my bank statement showing purchase price.

I only ordered from the US since FinnVape doesn't carry pipe sauce anymore (and it was also wayyy cheaper), I'll find an EU distributor as soon as this ordeal is over though lol

 

[Papillon61]

I'm still importing small amounts of nicotine base in Malta from Poland. Had to stop getting it from the UK because most UK sites are not delivering nicotine base outside the UK. Polalnd (Inawera & Molin Shop are still selling and I have had no problems with local customs. I keep my packages small so as not to attract attention. That said, I think I now have enough nicotine to last me for years. I don't think there should be any problem with importing flavours... after all you could be importing them to make boiled sweets or drinks.

 

[Jorge22]

Hi. I ordered a couple of 60 mg juices from NET LLC as I really wanted to try them. Clay also sent a couple of smaple gifts. That was back in May and everything was marked 0 mg everywhere as the Portuguese governemnt created an excise duty of 0.60 € per ml on any nicotine containing e-liquid.
Firstly, the order went from Chicago to Toronto and from there to Istambul (!) before arriving in Lisbon and never coming to Porto. Who knows why! It got stuck at the customs. Besides the usual documents for any such cases they wanted me to fill a very complicated document which is really destined for people who do imports. Mind, even with 25 USD (or was it 25 €?) in postage, the total value was about 68 €, not really anything anyone could consider an import.
It's June 26 today and I've given up on ever receiving my liquids. The customs don't answer the phone. I sent them four emails (I didn't send them daily emails as I didn't want to look desperate). In the last one, I told them I gave up and for them to, please, return the parcel back to the sender. No one ever replied any email.
So, that's the way it goes. I think there's a very low limit of 45 €, postage included, above which one should pay the VAT - but that would be it! In this case, they decided to overcomplicate. If I had filled the said document, the DU (these are the initials in Portuguese, sorry if I'm not checking what they are in English, but you do get the meaning), the order would have at least doubled its cost. In the meantime I've been talking to a wall, so much so that they ddidn't even reply my last email in which I asked them to send the parcel back to the sender.
It seems the Portuguese customs have been blocking everything that comes from the US (perhaps because the US customs do more or less the same?). Now I know. And I can say goodbye to my juices. Meanwhile, there don't seem to be many issues regarding things coming from China.

That's the Free Trade Agreements for you!

EDIT: So far, there aren't any problems ordering anything from within the EU. Thank God.

 

[RAJ_rios]

Following Hattivatti's info above I was able to receive my package. Taxes paid and lesson learned, I will not order fluid from outside of the EU to here again. Very glad to have my fluid here, it was a rough few weeks! Thanks for all the help everyone.

 

[Jorge22]

Just to complete the info, I definitely lost the possibility of trying the juices and that's pretty bad as it's exactly what I wanted in the first place.

But Clay always replied my mails very quickly and, since someone told him about the issue, he offered to refund me the entire sum I'd paid, postages included and I hadn't even requested anything. So he did and the money's back in my bank account now although the banking thieves have charged about 3 €.
This is what I call excellent service. Not only that, I call it honesty, which is something that's a bit rare these days. If the customs on both sides of the pond finally start taking it easier, I'll definitely reorder.