Five Year User JC Red Oak Domestic - Spending $$$$ on garbage - Help?

[roseenglish]

Tobaccos are one flavor I would wait months before deciding to bin them or not. I have bought and also DIY'ed tobaccos that taste horrid when freshly mixed but develop into incredible juices months later.

Yes I have several bottles sat out without a lid my office smells like a cross between a candy store and a tobacconist - Its a learning curve

 

[roseenglish]

I agree with AzPlumber on this one. A few years ago when I first quit smoking and started vaping I bought a bottle of Dark Side of The Moon and thought the same thing you did. About 8 or 9 months later I was going to throw it out to make room, but decided to give it one last try before pouring it out. Turned out to be one of the truest tobacco flavors I have tried. Didn't buy it again because I just don't have the patience to wait 9 months for a bottle of juice, but the point is don't discount a tobacco juice on the first taste.

Good luck on your search.

Thanks

 

[Bunnykiller]

Have some on the way - I think I have researched what is good and clean - now its just a matter of narrowing down one flavour - I hope it will be satisfying and not a "It will have to do" time will tell

Many Thanks

depends on your flavor preference... mine is the tobacco flavors and the 2 I have been using for the last 4 yrs are Dragons Fire and Pirates Booty, both at 100VG double flavor shot 36 nic

 

[Carl2]

I'm into the DIY and mix mostly tobacco flavors plus some sweeteners that can be added. Turkish, Virginia, Cavendish and a few others are my favorite tobaccos. As already said it takes about 15 min to mix them. Many of the tobacco flavors don't need steeping but I began doing a Warm Water quick steep, 130 to 140 F water heated in an electric skillet for 6 hours. The flavor comes out stronger so I use less flavoring.
I've never used 100% VG but my thoughts are you get better tasting flavor for much less money. If you could try to describe the Red Oak Domestic it might be helpful.

 

[-KT-]

Welcome, RoseEnglish
A strong +1 on DIY. I think my first order was about $30 on VG and nic (enough to make over 600ml of juice), another $20 in bottles & syringes, and a single $3 bottle of flavoring will make hundreds of ml of juice. Here's a paste of info I gave someone else interested in starting DIY. Trust me, it's way easier than you think. And remember, a 10 ml sample "fail" will only cost you pennies!

Nicotine River is good for nicotine, pg or vg, also has flavorings & equipment. I’m about to place an order with them. Looks like their price on nic & VG is better than what I paid at Wizard. Nicotine River - Liquid Nicotine - Vegetable Glycerin

I bought my first order of nic & vg, syringes and bottles from Wizard Labs Wizard Labs

I got my first order of flavorings from Bull City Flavors, because they had all the Hangsen & Inawara Tobacco flavors I wanted. Bull City Flavors - Best Prices on Flavoring

Supplies:
Some 30 ml glass bottles. I use about 6-8 of them, for my favorites. I don't need many, because I only vape about 3 ml a day. But I do make tobacco flavors, and it's generally better after a 30 day steep, so it stores well in the glass. For someone who goes thru a lot of a single flavor in a day, I’d recommend 60ml chubby gorilla or unicorn type bottles.

• One or 2 dozen 10 ml plastic bottles, to make samples.
• One 10 ml luer lock syringe for transferring VG & my VG based nicotine. I rinse & reuse, and replaced the first one because markings wore off. Very cheap, so get several. You can get a 14 ga needle for transferring but my vg is so thick, i usually just use the syringe without.
• One 1 ml luer lock syringe and 18ga blunt needle for transferring flavorings. I rinse & reuse this too, and they're so cheap I'd get several

That's it, except for a bottle of VG, bottle of nic, and I started with about 10 different flavors. You can get the nic in different strengths, but I started with 48mg/ml rather than 100, because if I'm lazy or off a little on measurements, it won't matter as much, so it's more forgiving. Once you're comfortable, you can use stronger nic which will make it cheaper.

I over bought, and got a graduated cylinder, some pipettes and other "recommended" items I never use. I realize now that the cylinder is for making large quantities. My mixing is done directly in the 10-30ml bottles.

And one other great thing about diy - I made a large batch of my standard 14mg nic base, to make mixing easy. Then I found that I sometimes prefer vaping the unflavored for a while, or may just tank mix a little squirt of my mixed juice to make the unflavored just lightly flavored. My taste buds seem to change by the week, and diy lets you customize everything you vape.

Here's a link to my favorite calculator. Just plug in your supplies, what you want, and it tells you how much of everything to add....easy. e-liquid-recipes
Good luck!

Good info! Tagged for future reference.

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk

 

[roseenglish]

I'm into the DIY and mix mostly tobacco flavors plus some sweeteners that can be added. Turkish, Virginia, Cavendish and a few others are my favorite tobaccos. As already said it takes about 15 min to mix them. Many of the tobacco flavors don't need steeping but I began doing a Warm Water quick steep, 130 to 140 F water heated in an electric skillet for 6 hours. The flavor comes out stronger so I use less flavoring.
I've never used 100% VG but my thoughts are you get better tasting flavor for much less money. If you could try to describe the Red Oak Domestic it might be helpful.

I havent made this in over two years but it's a good approximation.

View attachment 698667

 

[roseenglish]

I'm into the DIY and mix mostly tobacco flavors plus some sweeteners that can be added. Turkish, Virginia, Cavendish and a few others are my favorite tobaccos. As already said it takes about 15 min to mix them. Many of the tobacco flavors don't need steeping but I began doing a Warm Water quick steep, 130 to 140 F water heated in an electric skillet for 6 hours. The flavor comes out stronger so I use less flavoring.
I've never used 100% VG but my thoughts are you get better tasting flavor for much less money. If you could try to describe the Red Oak Domestic it might be helpful.

This seems about right - Authentic mild caramel on the exhale - earthy tobacco. Apparently Domestic was a pipe tobacco rather than a cigarette tobacco - Its dark in colour but they added some kind of filtered water (or something) to make it thinner.

 

[Carl2]

I use E Juice Me Up for the calculator and use drops rather than weight and go by volume, seems quicker to me but some people like weight. I started smoking cigarettes but switched to the pipe, not all that much difference to me.
The above recipe looks good, I'm not familiar with PA, I use Perique Black for a smoky flavor. When you put an order in try some Gold Ducat INW, difficult to describe, unique.

 

[roseenglish]

depends on your flavor preference... mine is the tobacco flavors and the 2 I have been using for the last 4 yrs are Dragons Fire and Pirates Booty, both at 100VG double flavor shot 36 nic

From Heathers Heavenly Vapes?
I have one of each on its way as well as others from her NET range,
*Fingers Crossed*

 

[roseenglish]

I use E Juice Me Up for the calculator and use drops rather than weight and go by volume, seems quicker to me but some people like weight. I started smoking cigarettes but switched to the pipe, not all that much difference to me.
The above recipe looks good, I'm not familiar with PA, I use Perique Black for a smoky flavor. When you put an order in try some Gold Ducat INW, difficult to describe, unique.

Hate to be a noob but I don't even know what PA is!

I suspect at some point I will venture down the DIY route because clearly I am fussy and so I need to be able to make to my own taste.

Where do people buy all of the flavours and stuff? Is there a place that provides flavours made from natural ingredients? I only ask because I am assuming they taste like the real thing.
That said, Domestic was not a NET liquid and very old and yet it was so clean no after taste no perfume

I like tobacco - authentic pipe tobacco flavour full bodied but not bitter, I like an authentic sweetness also which is usually on the exhale. ( I used to smoke Silk Cut Lights - like sucking on straws so thats ironic)
I am a mouth to lung vaper and I often exhale through the nose which allows the flavours to be savoured (without wanting to sound like a wine taster)
I say I can tell by the smell whether I will like it but as others have mentioned I shouldn't do that as many need to steep before the chemical or perfume smell subsides.
The Johnson Creek Domestic I have left has been in my fridge for months so its steeped and I can hardly smell it at all.
As for taste, its hard to say whether there even is one now perhaps because I have been using it for so long I can no longer taste it but it gives good TH and an nice subtle authentic exhale.

I guess I need to move over to the DIY threads and start researching

 

[Izan]

I use E Juice Me Up for the calculator and use drops rather than weight and go by volume, seems quicker to me but some people like weight. I started smoking cigarettes but switched to the pipe, not all that much difference to me.
The above recipe looks good, I'm not familiar with PA, I use Perique Black for a smoky flavor. When you put an order in try some Gold Ducat INW, difficult to describe, unique.

Me thinks PA is


cheers
I

 

[Brewdawg1181]

I guess I need to move over to the DIY threads and start researching

A lot of good info in the DIY threads, but it can make your head spin. It can make you think you're not ready for it. Really, all you're doing is putting VG, Nicotine, and flavoring in a bottle and shaking. A 1ml syringe with 18ga needle for flavoring, a 10 ml syringe without a needle for VG and nic, and bottles is all you really need.

Here's the best place to learn about the tobacco flavorings (flavorings, not ready to vape juices).
Favorite tobacco flavoring discussion - Tobacco flavoring discussion only
I think you'll find that for tobaccos, Hangsen and Inawara are highly regarded and have good selections. They're my favorites, and like you, I only like tobacco. And Hangsen is pretty good right away, without even steeping.

For the flavorings and supplies, I mentioned good sites in my previous post.
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...ion-tobacco-flavoring-discussion-only.667055/

 

[Trigster]

Hi Liz...You've gotten some great advice...And @Brewdawg1181 hit the nail on the head regarding DIY...Only thing I'd add is a 14ga needle on the 10ml syringe for your base and a small (100ml) beaker to work your base out of...I'm fairly new at it myself but doubt I'll ever buy pre-made E-Liquid again...And if you do start DIY just keep it as simple as you can at the beginning...Just starting I fit everything I needed on a dinner plate...Trig
And the link he gave you to the Master Tobacco Thread is a Gold Mine of info...

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Been away taking care of bu$iness.

Red Oak Domestic was a member of the "RY4" family of tobacco flavors. It's a tobacco blended with vanilla and caramel, and the perfect RY4 is the holy grail of many tobacco flavor vapers. What made Johnson Creek's stand out was the smoky flavor. Tennessee Cured had an even smokier character.

JC will always have a special place in my heart, because I started this journey with a Blu disposable. I learned shortly after joining ECF that JC was Blu's liquid supplier and that Red Oak Domestic was the tobacco. After what seemed like 59,841 failed DIY attempts at creating a flavor that tasted like a cigarette, I gave up. But I got pretty close with that R.O.D. recipe.

It has to age for about a month, btw (I refuse to use the word "steep").

 

[MacTechVpr]

Been away taking care of bu$iness.

Red Oak Domestic was a member of the "RY4" family of tobacco flavors. It's a tobacco blended with vanilla and caramel, and the perfect RY4 is the holy grail of many tobacco flavor vapers. What made Johnson Creek's stand out was the smoky flavor. Tennessee Cured had an even smokier character.

JC will always have a special place in my heart, because I started this journey with a Blu disposable. I learned shortly after joining ECF that JC was Blu's liquid supplier and that Red Oak Domestic was the tobacco. After what seemed like 59,841 failed DIY attempts at creating a flavor that tasted like a cigarette, I gave up. But I got pretty close with that R.O.D. recipe.

It has to age for about a month, btw (I refuse to use the word "steep").

Like you CC, I quit in two days on the blu without even thinking about it. Then panic ensued as nic depletion set in. I struggled with some mainstream juices until these pages kindly revealed JC as the maker and their marvelous assortment of PG free tab's of which by far, I believe, TC was the best. It became my #1 recommendation to new vapers. Well, that is, after Boba's. The mixture of that and GJ is a truly magical elixir.

Definitely TC hit all the right buttons even if not quite a true tobacco flavor. So much so that I used JCTC in a base of a "universal" blend I used to evaluate tests of strain winding and rebuilding at B&M's, meet ups, etc. for quite some time. But without some of the ingredients you mention which rendered its smoky, aged, nutty, woody goodness as these proved too stark a bite for quite a few. So my generally appreciated and neutral (not distracting of the test) concoction was a highly compatible RY4 recipe of my own blended to a minor proportion of JCTC. It may be possible to use one or more of the new varieties sparingly to achieve a closer facsimile of the original.

The newest lineup is sadly nowhere on par with JC's original offerings. But the original can be approximated with a little patience and a few basic ingredients or perhaps a blend as above. To capture TC's distinctiveness however may prove as elusive as the Boba's chase has been.

Good luck.

 

[PJReid]

I found this clone of Johnson Creek Red Oak Domestic online. I have no idea if it is great or so/so but thought I would throw it out there for the sake of the conversation. Those more familiar with the original can offer input. It sounds similar to the one posted by @Coastal Cowboy. Good luck in your search. DIY is quick and easy, except for the aging part with tobacco flavors.

Tobacco Absolute 50% (ECX) - 1.5%
Burley (FA) - 3%
Creamy Caramel (LA) - 3%
Vanilla Swirl (TPA) - 3%
Hickory Smoke (TPA) - 3%
Flash Throat Hit Enhancer (FA) - 3%

I left out nicotine % and assume your base would be max VG.

 

[MacTechVpr]

It's really sad to see JC close @roseenglish. And I'm sorry you, we all have to go through such apparently unwanted disruption. Doesn't seem to be all that hot for makers either. Just curious as you've been so attuned to this beloved brand what if anything you settle on. Do try and give us an update.

Good luck.

 

[roseenglish]

It's really sad to see JC close @roseenglish. And I'm sorry you, we all have to go through such apparently unwanted disruption. Doesn't seem to be all that hot for makers either. Just curious as you've been so attuned to this beloved brand what if anything you settle on. Do try and give us an update.

Good luck.

Sad???? Its the end of the F-ing world to me!

Thanks for the "good luck" I think I will need it. I think I have exceeded £1000 since JC closed which includes shipping and import customs and I still haven't found one that pleases me like Domestic does.
I still have 40ml of Domestic and I each time I crack a new bottle out I almost cry !

I have two e cigs on my PC desk one has Domestic in and the other has my "best of a bad bunch" in it (More on that below) - Sometimes I will pick up the Domestic filled device without thinking and as I exhale it's like:
"OMG that's so good!.....aawwwww ....! that's Domestic and I won't have any soon!"
Then I have to push myself back to the other device filled with liquid that is tolerable... but not enjoyable... lol
Its pathetic I know but I can't help what I like and what I don't....furthermore.... things have gotten more complicated than I had anticipated....

Initially I had started to assume I was just being a fussy ..... but it's more complicated than that. I am sensitive to PG even in the slightest amounts and that's probably why I settled on the Red Oak range in the first place all the way back in 2012/13 - Instant dizziness followed by a dull headache - sometimes even heartburn!
I do not recall being THIS sensitive to e liquid when I came off real ciggies - I DO recall numb tongue and occasional headaches but I think having only ever vaped Red Oak all these years which is known for being 100% PG free (including the flavours) has increased my sensitivity to PG.
Plus PG is anti freeze no? VG made from plants.. seems obvious to me which is the most kindest on the body

Anyway, my £1K search for the elusive authentic tobacco with a subtle sweetness no after taste or perfume.

I would have gladly stopped the search at House Of Liquid, they have some excellent tobacco flavours but 60/40 VG/PG so that was a "no go" due to the headaches and dizziness. But the taste was spot on and I would have stopped the search there.
Indigo Vapor.com - Tobacco flavours are authentic in taste but even that MAX VG has around 10% PG - Tried The Duke - banging headache after 4 pulls.
Blacknote were another excellent product but again 50/50 Vg/PG - No good.
Had two large sample orders from Naturally Extracted Tobacco LLC and in all honesty this is the company that had the correct formula. No smell or not much when you opened the bottles, taste is subtle almost hard to detect but I think I would have picked them up in time and no after taste or sickly taste. Spot on. However....
I tried 10/90 PG/VG and I still felt dizzy with a headache that followed. The second order I tried 100% VG and whilst I am not as dizzy the headache still follows so I wrote to them and I am waiting to hear if they use PG in their flavours or as part of their extraction.

{I wonder if over time I could adjust to the tiny % of PG in the flavours? I am hoping so - I have kept the 50 5ml tester bottles from NET LCC because if I can somehow adjust and overcome the annoying sensitivity to what must be a very tiny % of PG then I am confident they have "the one"}

I have wasted so much money on juices advertised as MAX VG and I had to throw immediately due to my PG sensitivity. No point trying and possibly liking one if it makes me dizzy and sick.

Others I tried and couldn't stomach purely because they have too much sickly smell or after taste even after steeping were Kais Virgin Vapour and Alien Visions and some others that advertised as "MAX VG" which I forget but clearly they had PG in. I am not exaggerating when I say I have binned must be 80 bottles of new tobacco e liquid some not even opened as I realised they had PG in after I ordered.

Ones that don't give me headaches and/or make me dizzy are:
Virgin Vapours - flavours are too much too strong too sickly and not very authentic to me anyway
Alien Visions - same only worse
Velvet Cloud - White Beard It's Okay, but again the taste/small is too strong and after a while I got sick of tasting it. I've kept it as a possible "go to"
Burly Beard - I had high hopes for this but turns out it's not what I had hoped. No sweetness at all I literally couldn't vape it, too savoury and too "much" even after steeping.

I love a coffee vape and tried Double Espresso by Virgin Vapor - smelt divine - tasted over bearing sickly sweet - threw it away.

The one I have whittled down to because it doesn't make me dizzy or ill and leaves no after taste is

Kind Juice - Tobacco Ridge Range - Viva La Libertad which is described as a cigar flavour - I cannot really taste much at all which is better than tasting too much, to me at least. I am an "all day vaper" - not a chain vaping monster but I vape at the PC where I work and I like to use the same juice so it has to be an "all day" flavour.

The important feature for the Tobacco Ridge - Viva La Libertad is good TH and no after taste but again, not much to taste in the first place. I have the full range from their Tobacco Ridge and originally enjoyed to a degree Patriots Brew but again after a while its gets too much, the smell and tastes starts to grate.

I have another large order coming from Heathers Heavenly Vapes - Purity (Second large order as I originally ordered VG dominant in ignorance of my PG sensitivity) and another £100+ order which contains some from Vape Organics and Vape Green, but I have lost hope really. I DO recall Heathers Heavenly Vapes NET liquids smelling nice but I did not even try the first order (Which I binned without trying as I had ordered 10% PG mix) so maybe there will be one in there.

My real hope is that I can overcome this annoying sensitivity to Naturally Extracted Tobacco LLC liquids because they are 100% VG but I suspect they extract flavours using PG which means there's a tiny % in there that is giving me a headache. I will keep trying them and hope I adjust because those are pure from perfume and after taste.

I know I must sound like a totally fussy cow but I can't help that I get headaches with PG and have a refined palate lol...

 

[roseenglish]

I found this clone of Johnson Creek Red Oak Domestic online. I have no idea if it is great or so/so but thought I would throw it out there for the sake of the conversation. Those more familiar with the original can offer input. It sounds similar to the one posted by @Coastal Cowboy. Good luck in your search. DIY is quick and easy, except for the aging part with tobacco flavors.

Tobacco Absolute 50% (ECX) - 1.5%
Burley (FA) - 3%
Creamy Caramel (LA) - 3%
Vanilla Swirl (TPA) - 3%
Hickory Smoke (TPA) - 3%
Flash Throat Hit Enhancer (FA) - 3%

I left out nicotine % and assume your base would be max VG.

Thank you so much!

Do the initials represent the company that manufactures the ingredients?

I ask as my concern with DIY juice is I would imagine the flavours all differ depending on where you buy them from.
If I could find out where Johnson Creek got their artificial and natural flavours from then the rest would be a walk in the park and I would "have a go" and replicating Domestic.
But to just add a random "Burley" and another random "Vanilla" into a mix I doubt would come close to the original flavour.

All I know for sure is that JC used flavours and ingredients that contained NO PG at all and as I am sensitive to PG this is a must. So that's a clue at least and they all originated from the USA so thats clue number 2

Here is the actual list of ingredients in the JC Red Oak range:
Johnson Creek Smoke Juice Ingredients – Red Oak Line

• FCC grade Vegetable Glycerin
• Food-grade Glycerol
• Distilled water
• Nicotine (except in Zero Nic juices)
• Natural Flavors
• Artificial flavors
• Citric Acid (used as a natural preservative in the juice)
• 100% free of Propylene Glycol

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Your symptoms sound more like nicotine overload than PG sensitivity. To test this, you might try some 0 nic juice that contains a very small amount of PG.