Flavor Loss - Is it the Plastic or the Sweetener??

[Smokin'Sandy]

I posted this in the general forum and someone suggested I might post it here too.

I have been making my own juices and using plastic bottles (used ones). I'll get my juices flavored just as I like them and by the next morning, they taste nothing like I mixed them. I know some people say to let them steep, but that is supposed to improve the flavor I thought. I was thinking it was the sweetener I was using (100% pure sucralose diluted) that was changing the flavor. So, I mixed some without sweetener and it tastes just like the one mixed with it, just not as sweet and they both taste bad even after adding more flavoring (white chocolate). The flavor is basically gone overnight. I add more flavor and after a few hours, the flavor is gone again.

I have 3 bottles sitting at home right now, one with sucralose, one with stevia and one without. All in plastic bottles. This is a sugar cookie flavoring. I'll see when I get home if they all taste the same.

What made me think it might be the sweetener was that I had the sugar cookie made just right and vaping on it all evening and when I woke up this morning, I started vaping it and I noticed I could hardly taste it at all. Now, I did have it in a giantomizer, which I believe is an overgrown CE2 which is also plastic (I think they all are) So, I'm confused really on what is causing my flavor loss. I think I'll order some glass bottles and mix the same thing in all three and try the sweetener experiment again and see what happens.

I did just order some glass bottles...

 

[tsunami987]

I have heard of sucralose potentially causing flavors to become muted, but it could also be your gigantomizer. Have heard some reports of muted flavors with them. Also, what flavors are you using at what concentration? I've had some issues with tpa chocolate fading over the course of a day

 

[Smokin'Sandy]

I have heard of sucralose potentially causing flavors to become muted, but it could also be your gigantomizer. Have heard some reports of muted flavors with them. Also, what flavors are you using at what concentration? I've had some issues with tpa chocolate fading over the course of a day

That's what I'm thinking too, about the sucralose. Maybe it's a mix of the two? One was a banana pudding I made and it tasted wonderful the entire day. I would say the flavor was at about 18%. I mixed it at 25, but had to reduce it. I filled it up again and on day 2, the flavor diminished. This is a mix of TPA and FA flavorings.

Another was TPA white chocolate (love it!) at about 20% to start. It was great for about a day also, then later on, I couldn't taste it at all unless I forced the vapor into my brain through my nose! Even then, it was faint. I added more flavor, was ok but not as good as it was to start with. A little later...flavor gone except a bad taste. It may be a plastic taste, but I can't say for sure. I mixed some without the sweetener and it was good. Put a drop of sweetener in my tank and was good to go. Then, its flavor went also (not in the tank, but the bottle). Added more flavor and probably put a little from the sweet bottle of juice into it. Both the same "no flavor" now or I should say, no good flavor. It may be there, but it's very, very faint. I can't smell it but can taste it way in the background. (I literally do a little taste test on the tip of my tongue. I've gotten the hiccups more than once. Don't try this at home. )

Another I have is Cap sugar cookie and I'm going to say that it's at 25%. I don't really measure the one flavor juices. Just to taste. It was great last night (had sucralose) and this morning, the flavor was gone (in the giantomizer and the bottle). This seems to happen within hours too. I can go back to the bottle and smell nothing. So I added more flavor to it, mixed up another small amount and added stevia and another with no sweetener at all. I'll see when I get home.

The giantomizer worked wonderful for the banana pudding for the entire day. It seems to work as long as the flavor is there. I have the CE4+ V2's or stardusts V2 (or V3 as on the Vision site), but the banana pudding I make has ripe banana in it and I know it will crack the V1's and I'm not brave enough to try it on my new V2's yet.

I was changing so many variables at once, I would have never figured it out! HA! I'll try when I get the glass bottles with the different sweeteners and one without and compare them to the used plastic bottles. Of course, I should do all the glass and plastic at the same time too.

White chocolate was in a stardust and a tank and the sugar cookie is in the giantomizer now.

 

[HawkeyeCS]

If you figure it out, let us know... I had a banana mix (6% Ripe Banana, 8% Bittersweet, and 6% toasted marshmallow all from TPA) and the flavor started to dissipate and within 3 days, was basically gone... At first I got pretty much all banana, now i'm getting hints of banana and maybe the marshmallow (which doesn't have much of a taste) is now the predominant flavor.... Never actually tasted the bittersweet chocolate at all.... Vapor production has remained awesome, but I was hoping for a flavorful juice, and it's not anymore... It's not a bad taste, but just not what I wanted....

 

[Vchick]

I use Humongomizers (overgrown ce2's) and find that after a few tanks full the flavor kind fades a bit. I drain, rinse and dry off the wicks, dry burn a bit and then prime the coil and wick again. If you have an atomizer try dripping a few drops of the liquid and see what you get. hth!

 

[panachronic]

I don't think it's because of plastic bottles. Most DIYers use plastic bottles and nobody seems to be reporting that they cause flavor loss.

Myself, I'm wondering how much sucralose you are using. The stuff is extremely strong, and it's really easy to over-do it.

 

[buffaloguy]

There is a noticeable difference in freshness of the same juice, made the same way, the same day in plastic storage vs glass over time.

I also have had this happen with tpa ripe bananna, with sucralose and lemon juice added. Sucralose and lemin juice being used at one drop per 5ml, and bananna at 10%.

I tried omitting sucralose and the flavor held. I vaped it tho. I just made a post about it maybe a week or so ago on someone elses thread. cant recall whom. So ill try it again tonight and let it sit several days and report back.

 

[Leothwyn]

Have you tried a mix that has steeped (and lost its flavor) in a fresh attie/carto? Did it still have no flavor? I noticed you are using white chocolate. I love the taste of that flavor, but it seems to kill my cartos really fast (loss of taste, and bad taste/burnt).
If you've tried steeped mixes in new cartos and they still had no taste, and/or if you're making a variety of mixes without white chocolate, then my idea is out the window... but, I can't think of any other ideas, so thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[Iffy]

I was thinking it was the sweetener I was using (100% pure sucralose diluted) that was changing the flavor. So, I mixed some without sweetener and it tastes just like the one mixed with it, just not as sweet and they both taste bad even after adding more flavoring (white chocolate).

I have heard of sucralose potentially causing flavors to become muted

I'll go out on a limb and say that you're using a too high % of flavors. My other suspect would be your hardware.

 

[Ealisaid]

Sandy, I've been having this problem too and haven't been able to figure out why. The thing is -- most of my flavors come in plastic bottles but I usually keep my mixes in glass bottles, and I never use any sweetener of any kind except for a drop of EM now and then. I seem to get the flavor loss more with single flavor mixes, and I don't think I've ever had it happen with a complex mix that uses a lot of flavors from several different flavoring companies.

I've tried adding more flavor, tried letting the mix steep longer, tried adding more VG in case the flavor got too strong -- nothing has worked. Lately the flavor I've been having the most trouble with is Capella's Toasted Almond, which is one of my favorites. It doesn't taste bad after sitting overnight -- it just doesn't have any flavor any more. I was wondering if it was my tastebuds, but since you seem to be having the same problem, maybe it's something else. I have some of TPA's White Chocolate so I think I'll mix up some of that and see what happens.

I'm wondering what PG/VG ratio you use and what brands of nic/pg/vg? I've used Now (brand) VG before and I don't remember having this problem when I used that, but I could be misremembering. I am wondering if the brand of nic or VG I'm using is having this effect though, since I've tried changing just about everything else.

 

[buffaloguy]

I have two testers sitting since last night. two 3ml batches ripe bananna @10%. One with just flv alone, the other flv with one drop lemon juice. No sweetener in either. Just to see if the flv holds. if its the sweetener, we shall see.

 

[pinellaspete]

You really need to add a stabilizer to your mixes.

A stabilizer is some form of natural acid. Either Lemon Juice, Malic Acid, Tartaric Acid or Vinegar.

Use Malic or Tartaric Acid as a 20% solution.

Use 2 drops of any of the acids per 5ml of mix. This will stabilize your mix, it will last longer holding its flavor and won't change color as fast.

Good luck,

Pete

 

[frequentj]

You really need to add a stabilizer to your mixes.

A stabilizer is some form of natural acid. Either Lemon Juice, Malic Acid, Tartaric Acid or Vinegar.

Use Malic or Tartaric Acid as a 20% solution.

Use 2 drops of any of the acids per 5ml of mix. This will stabilize your mix, it will last longer holding its flavor and won't change color as fast.

Good luck,

Pete

I've noticed the flavor fading with certain flavors I've used (mostly Capella's strawberry and the tangerine). I always add Lorann's Tart & Sour, but the flavors on those two just keep disappearing overnight! I use about 2 drops of 10% EM to sweeten. What's going on?!

 

[my4jewels]

Is it possible there could be some taste bud issues with some of the taste fading? The only thing I ever add to my fruit mixes is a bit of EM. Maybe it's just me, but when I experience my juice tasting like it's faded, I taste some of my other flavors, and everything seems weak. When my taste bude wake up again, all is well with the flavors that I thought had faded.

 

[ToweKnee]

Is it possible there could be some taste bud issues with some of the taste fading? The only thing I ever add to my fruit mixes is a bit of EM. Maybe it's just me, but when I experience my juice tasting like it's faded, I taste some of my other flavors, and everything seems weak. When my taste bude wake up again, all is well with the flavors that I thought had faded.

Yep this happens to me a lot especially when I vape very heavy or I vape a certain flavor for a day or so. I think its me and my taste buds dueling out sensitivity.

 

[AdariousMistdancer]

The only problem with that theory is that it would also have to extend to bought juices as well, and I've yet to experience that. I'm here researching DIY before diving in. Is this a problem that might be specific to TPA flavors?

 

[Smokin'Sandy]

If you figure it out, let us know... I had a banana mix (6% Ripe Banana, 8% Bittersweet, and 6% toasted marshmallow all from TPA) and the flavor started to dissipate and within 3 days, was basically gone... At first I got pretty much all banana, now i'm getting hints of banana and maybe the marshmallow (which doesn't have much of a taste) is now the predominant flavor.... Never actually tasted the bittersweet chocolate at all.... Vapor production has remained awesome, but I was hoping for a flavorful juice, and it's not anymore... It's not a bad taste, but just not what I wanted....

Yes, that is what is happening to me also. I'll make a single post here in a minute with a few results.

I don't think it's because of plastic bottles. Most DIYers use plastic bottles and nobody seems to be reporting that they cause flavor loss.

Myself, I'm wondering how much sucralose you are using. The stuff is extremely strong, and it's really easy to over-do it.

I use about 1 drop (of my solution of which I don't know show strong it is) per 5ml. I do seem to think it may be the plastic with the sucralose compounding the problem. More later...

There is a noticeable difference in freshness of the same juice, made the same way, the same day in plastic storage vs glass over time.

I also have had this happen with tpa ripe bananna, with sucralose and lemon juice added. Sucralose and lemin juice being used at one drop per 5ml, and bananna at 10%.

I tried omitting sucralose and the flavor held. I vaped it tho. I just made a post about it maybe a week or so ago on someone elses thread. cant recall whom. So ill try it again tonight and let it sit several days and report back.

Please do.

Have you tried a mix that has steeped (and lost its flavor) in a fresh attie/carto? Did it still have no flavor? I noticed you are using white chocolate. I love the taste of that flavor, but it seems to kill my cartos really fast (loss of taste, and bad taste/burnt).
If you've tried steeped mixes in new cartos and they still had no taste, and/or if you're making a variety of mixes without white chocolate, then my idea is out the window... but, I can't think of any other ideas, so thought I'd throw it out there.

Thank you for the ideas. The giantomier is new (or was when I was discovering this) along with the stardust.

I'll go out on a limb and say that you're using a too high % of flavors. My other suspect would be your hardware.

I thought about that, but I can't taste it at a lower percentage. I got it (white chocolate) where I could taste it really well and then it was gone. That's when I added more and it was fine for a little while, but not as good as before. I think overkill happened at that point.

 

[Smokin'Sandy]

Sandy, I've been having this problem too and haven't been able to figure out why. The thing is -- most of my flavors come in plastic bottles but I usually keep my mixes in glass bottles, and I never use any sweetener of any kind except for a drop of EM now and then. I seem to get the flavor loss more with single flavor mixes, and I don't think I've ever had it happen with a complex mix that uses a lot of flavors from several different flavoring companies.

I've tried adding more flavor, tried letting the mix steep longer, tried adding more VG in case the flavor got too strong -- nothing has worked. Lately the flavor I've been having the most trouble with is Capella's Toasted Almond, which is one of my favorites. It doesn't taste bad after sitting overnight -- it just doesn't have any flavor any more. I was wondering if it was my tastebuds, but since you seem to be having the same problem, maybe it's something else. I have some of TPA's White Chocolate so I think I'll mix up some of that and see what happens.

I'm wondering what PG/VG ratio you use and what brands of nic/pg/vg? I've used Now (brand) VG before and I don't remember having this problem when I used that, but I could be misremembering. I am wondering if the brand of nic or VG I'm using is having this effect though, since I've tried changing just about everything else.

We are having the exact same problem. I get my nic base and VG from Wizard Labs. I may have to try some Now VG.

I'll post more in a second.

Oh, I use a 50/50 mix.

 

[Smokin'Sandy]

I have two testers sitting since last night. two 3ml batches ripe bananna @10%. One with just flv alone, the other flv with one drop lemon juice. No sweetener in either. Just to see if the flv holds. if its the sweetener, we shall see.

Please do let us know.

You really need to add a stabilizer to your mixes.

A stabilizer is some form of natural acid. Either Lemon Juice, Malic Acid, Tartaric Acid or Vinegar.

Use Malic or Tartaric Acid as a 20% solution.

Use 2 drops of any of the acids per 5ml of mix. This will stabilize your mix, it will last longer holding its flavor and won't change color as fast.

Good luck,

Pete

I did buy some lemon juice, but haven't used it in those mixes yet. I will try that.

I've noticed the flavor fading with certain flavors I've used (mostly Capella's strawberry and the tangerine). I always add Lorann's Tart & Sour, but the flavors on those two just keep disappearing overnight! I use about 2 drops of 10% EM to sweeten. What's going on?!

I wish I knew for sure!

The only problem with that theory is that it would also have to extend to bought juices as well, and I've yet to experience that. I'm here researching DIY before diving in. Is this a problem that might be specific to TPA flavors?

The ones I have that are mixes are from different companies. The white chocolate is TPA, but the sugar cookie is Capella's.

 

[Smokin'Sandy]

I went home Friday and checked on my test bottles of sugar cookie. The ones with sucralose and steevia were pretty much gone scent and flavor wise. The one without sweetener was okay, but still not as it was when I mixed it. I am probably wrong, but it may be a mixture of the plastic and the sweetener doing it faster than the plastic alone. But, I still think it's the plastic. Not just any plastic though because I mixed up some sugar cookie in one of those hard, clear plastic bottles that some vendors use which I believe is PET bottles. That sugar cookie is still going strong in that bottle and I do have sucralose in it. I'm not certain, but I believe it's not just any plastic that does this, but the softer bottles that aren't clear.

I also mixed some juices up in some empty glass flavor bottles (since my bottle aren't here yet) and they are still good too even with the sweetener. Actually, I'm going to have to reduce the white chocolate because it's too strong and has a chemical taste.

But, that doesn't explain why it went away in my giantomizer also unless it was refilled from the plastic and was on it's way out. OK, OK...I'm reaching now!!

So, I'm just going to use glass or the PET bottles from now on (and try the lemon juice or tart and sour). Please post back on any experiments any of you do because I'm not the most scientific person in the world. I love science, but don't follow rules very well!!!

Thank you everyone!