Foulds says e-cigs won't help you quit smoking

[Vocalek]

Try this: http://www.healthline.com/blogs/smo...2/citizens-petition-to-fda-on-regulation.html

"http://www.healthline.com/blogs/smoking_cessation/2010/02/citizens-petition-to-fda-on-regulation.html"

I actually do not disagree with what the organizations are asking for. If the Powers That Be (PTB) are actually serious about helping a much greater percentage of people to stop inhaling tobacco smoke, we need every tool possible. The PTB need to understand that many of us will never be willing to set aside nicotine. In my case, which is not unique nor is it universal, nicotine abstinence means a choice between physical health OR cognitive and emotional health. I tried going without the latter for 6 months and decided life wasn't worth living in that condition.

So we need stronger NRTs available on a permanent basis, and we need reduced-harm smoking replacements such as Swedish snus and electronic cigarettes.

Insisting on nicotine abstinence as the only "acceptable" way to achieve smoking abstinence is a recipe for disease and death numbering in the millions.

 

[rothenbj]

Try this: Citizens? Petition To FDA on Regulation of Tobacco Treatment Medicines.

"http://www.healthline.com/blogs/smoking_cessation/2010/02/citizens-petition-to-fda-on-regulation.html"

I actually do not disagree with what the organizations are asking for. If the Powers That Be (PTB) are actually serious about helping a much greater percentage of people to stop inhaling tobacco smoke, we need every tool possible. The PTB need to understand that many of us will never be willing to set aside nicotine. In my case, which is not unique nor is it universal, nicotine abstinence means a choice between physical health OR cognitive and emotional health. I tried going without the latter for 6 months and decided life wasn't worth living in that condition.

So we need stronger NRTs available on a permanent basis, and we need reduced-harm smoking replacements such as Swedish snus and electronic cigarettes.

Insisting on nicotine abstinence as the only "acceptable" way to achieve smoking abstinence is a recipe for disease and death numbering in the millions.

Here's what I had a problem with-

“The Association for the Treatment of tobacco Use and Dependence (ATTUD) and the Society for Research on Nicotine and Tobacco (SRNT) were co-petitioners, with the final petition being reviewed and approved by the relevant committees within these organizations. At SRNT this included review by a sub-committee consisting entirely of members who have no links with pharmaceutical companies. The petition was accompanied and supported by a review paper, entitled “Barriers to Use of FDA-Approved Smoking Cessation Medications: Implications for Policy Action”, which was funded by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. companies. The petition was accompanied and supported by a accompanied and supported by a review paper, entitled “Barriers to Use of FDA-Approved Smoking Cessation Medications: Implications for Policy Action”, which was funded by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. review paper, entitled “Barriers to Use of FDA-Approved Smoking Cessation Medications: Implications for Policy Action”, which was funded by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation"

Who funded the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation?

In the drug cartel world, they call it money laundering. Here they call it "no links to the Pharmaceutical Industry". 10 million shares of J & J stock funded this Foundation. Since Nicorette and whatever else they have in the pipeline in the way of NRT products stand to gain on easier access, this Princeton, NJ Foundation may have some added incentive to support these measures.

New Jersey, our Pharma friendly Garden State. Now if they can only get snus banned indoors they should have all the basis covered. Just saying......

 

[alvitae]

It's really late and I am pretty tired so I didn't read the article closely, just scanned a paragraph or two.

But as a former smoker for nearly 40 years non stop I can honestly say I think I know nicotine on a more intimate level than this fellow. for some one to try and say I am not getting nicotine is ludicrous. I know what nicotine withdrawal feels like very well as I'm sure a lot of us here do. And I am not having them.

If I hadn't just took two good long pulls of 36mg Atomic Fireball from my PV I know that they would start later though.

I know what nicotine feels like and I know I am getting what I need. Also my Wife and i consider me a former smoker so that is good enough for us.

 

[billo]

First of all, 16 mg is not considered "high" nicotine by most. "High" would be closer to 26 mg. This alone should boost the levels by 60% or so. Not to mention many who vape 36 mg or more.

Also, those who use E cigarettes tend to take many more puffs in a given period of time than
those who smoke true cigarettes (analogs.) One can't compare the nicotine levels by making both groups take the same number of puffs !

For example, if one assumes 26 mg instead of 16 mg, and one assumes that E smokers take six times as many puffs per unit of time as regular smokers, the nicotine levels would come out about the same ! I am not sure if I take six times as many puffs, but it wouldn't surprise me if I did. I know I take a lot more.

I am one of those who tried the patches and gum with virtually no results (perhaps a 10% reduction in smoking.) But with E cigarettes I cut back 85% . This with virtually no "willpower."

For me, this study is encouraging. It shows actual measured numbers, but seems to draw the wrong conclusion. It seems to show that if I increase the nicotine level or number of puffs I might have even more success, and perhaps quit entirely.

 

[rothenbj]

First of all, 16 mg is not considered "high" nicotine by most. "High" would be closer to 26 mg. This alone should boost the levels by 60% or so. Not to mention many who vape
36 mg or more.

I am one of those who tried the patches and gum with virtually no results (perhaps a 10% reduction in smoking.) But with E cigarettes I cut back 85% . This with virtually no "willpower."

For me, this study is encouraging. It seems to show that if I increase the nicotine level I might have even more success, and perhaps quit entirely.

I don't know how much you smoked before you started, but I was in the 2 to 3 pack range and I got to where you are. I just had to have a few analogs a day. Then it was a few more. I just got that craving.

Decided to give snus a shot. Lost those cravings and feeling like this may be just right for me. Worth a shot perhaps.

 

[billo]

Thanks rothenbj. I should look into snus. Perhaps that would be the answer !

(I smoked about 30 cigarettes a day. Menthol light with an added plastic nicotine/tar filter. )

 

[Nikhil]

Vocalek, I don't know how you manage to find this stuff and jump on it so fast, you're like a professional team of lobbyists. It's good to have people like you on the good side!

I started smoking at 18, had my first cigarette in a bar, while drunk, with friends aged 16-20 who were also all smokers. Five years later I thought I'd never quit as my dad has smoked for over 35 years, but then I found this. After my first puff on an electronic cigarette, I have smoked 4 cigarettes in a month (compared to 10/day). I know I still need nicotine because I had to smoke a cigarette when I forgot to charge my battery .

 

[5cardstud]

I was so upset I wrote the good Dr. an e-mail and informed him of my opinion of his study and his credentials. If anyone else cares to e-mail him here is his e-mail adress.
Email: fouldsja@umdnj.edu

 

[rothenbj]

Thanks rothenbj. I should look into snus. Perhaps that would be the answer !

(I smoked about 30 cigarettes a day. Menthol light with an added plastic nicotine/tar filter. )

Hope I helped. Let me know how it works for you. For me it was like a lightbulb going off when the nic kicked in with the snus. I was just using the Camel snus that everyone says is so terrible.

 

[Brewster 59]

Try this: Citizens? Petition To FDA on Regulation of Tobacco Treatment Medicines.

"http://www.healthline.com/blogs/smoking_cessation/2010/02/citizens-petition-to-fda-on-regulation.html"

I actually do not disagree with what the organizations are asking for. If the Powers That Be (PTB) are actually serious about helping a much greater percentage of people to stop inhaling tobacco smoke, we need every tool possible. The PTB need to understand that many of us will never be willing to set aside nicotine. In my case, which is not unique nor is it universal, nicotine abstinence means a choice between physical health OR cognitive and emotional health. I tried going without the latter for 6 months and decided life wasn't worth living in that condition.

So we need stronger NRTs available on a permanent basis, and we need reduced-harm smoking replacements such as Swedish snus and electronic cigarettes.

Insisting on nicotine abstinence as the only "acceptable" way to achieve smoking abstinence is a recipe for disease and death numbering in the millions.

Im in the same boat as you, I suffer from anxiety and depression without nic. Unfortantly the PTBs and antis would just tell me to use anti depressants even though their side effects are much worse than nic. I evenhad a good friend whos anti depression meds were incorrect and she commited suicide, hmm never heard of nic causing someone to commit suicide.

 

[Brewster 59]

So I sent this email

I am writing to share with you the fact that I was a smoker for 30 years and since I found eni I have not had a cig in 6months nor do I have any desire to have one. I feel much better now and can taste things better as well as not smelling like an ashtray. I have tried all of the FDA approved nrts and none have worked for me. Eni has made life better for me and my family and even though it is not made to be an nrt or quit smoking device many have had success in either cutting down smoking or switched to it as an alternative. To me it doesn’t matter how it makes quitting possible what matters that it does make it possible where all the nrts and cold turkey didn’t work.

Respectfully
Bruce Gerrits

I hope that anyone emailing these people never claim eni to be a smoking cessatation device or NRT it is niether only an alternative and we sure dont need to give these people any ammo.

 

[Vocalek]

Im in the same boat as you, I suffer from anxiety and depression without nic. Unfortantly the PTBs and antis would just tell me to use anti depressants even though their side effects are much worse than nic. I evenhad a good friend whos anti depression meds were incorrect and she commited suicide, hmm never heard of nic causing someone to commit suicide.

Exactly! The ads for Abilify tell you that 2 out of 3 people being treated for depression still have symptoms. Ability is promoted as an add-on medication for treating depression. So instead of using nicotine, we could add that! Did I forget to mention the FDA-required warnings about increased risk of death in elderly patients? Or the potential adverse effects of worsening of depression and suicide, tardives dyskenesia, seizures, convulsions, cognitive and/or motor impairment... the list goes on and on. Abilify (Aripiprazole) Drug Information: Uses, Side Effects, Drug Interactions and Warnings at RxList

And those of us who must deal with attention and memory problems brought on by nicotine abstinence could instead take Ritalin, Adderal, or Concerta--all of which are quite expensive, most of which are controlled substances so you must show up in person to collect your Rx, and which also can have some very nasty side effects. Typically, such drugs would not be prescribed for older patients. All smokers, of course, are quite young.

Oh, BTW, many antis make a big deal about how they can't recommend harm reduction because nicotine is addictive. *Ahem* What do they think ADHD drugs are?

 

[anim8r]

So I sent this email

I am writing to share with you the fact that I was a smoker for 30 years and since I found eni I have not had a cig in 6months nor do I have any desire to have one. I feel much better now and can taste things better as well as not smelling like an ashtray. I have tried all of the FDA approved nrts and none have worked for me. Eni has made life better for me and my family and even though it is not made to be an nrt or quit smoking device many have had success in either cutting down smoking or switched to it as an alternative. To me it doesn’t matter how it makes quitting possible what matters that it does make it possible where all the nrts and cold turkey didn’t work.

Respectfully
Bruce Gerrits

I hope that anyone emailing these people never claim eni to be a smoking cessatation device or NRT it is niether only an alternative and we sure dont need to give these people any ammo.

If we don't call it an NRT, aren't we setting ourselves up to be treated, restricted, and taxed like cigarettes until people no longer use these either? and are then forced to use poorly performing patches and the like?

I don't know of anyone that is told to use their NRT's outside, near the .... can.

I thought NRT stood for nicotine replacement therapy? As in where you got your nicotine. But I could definitely be wrong.

The gum is always referred to as an NRT and it has nicotine in it, and flavoring. One of my friends quit cigarettes by using the gum. He used it for over 2 years. I hope I'm not still vaping in 2 years as my plan is to drop my nicotine strength every 2 months or so.

He finally quit chewing the nicorette on a daily basis, about 7 months ago, but he still keeps some on his person in case he ever starts thinking about smoking again.

I plan on weaning myself off of nicotine, but like him, I will always maintain an e-cig (my NRT)... just in case.

Certainly someone can write an article or set up a site dedicated on "how to quit nicotine by using the e-cig".

If only a few are successful, then you have the same performance base of other NRTs.

Also, I absolutely consider myself cigarette/tobacco free. Same as someone on the patch or gum.

The only difference is, I'm not back on cigarettes and am completely satisfied. The patch, gum, and lozenges did not work, they only 'delayed' my buying another pack because they were lacking in so many areas.

I don't have anything against adding a new category, but I don't think we should be treated differently like the FDA and others are trying to do. To me, NRT and "Cessation" don't have to be synonymous.

I would just like to call a duck, an actual duck here.

 

[Brewster 59]

If we don't call it an NRT, aren't we setting ourselves up to be treated, restricted, and taxed like cigarettes until people no longer use these either? and are then forced to use poorly performing patches and the like?

I don't know of anyone that is told to use their NRT's outside, near the .... can.

I thought NRT stood for nicotine replacement therapy? As in where you got your nicotine. But I could definitely be wrong.

The gum is always referred to as an NRT and it has nicotine in it, and flavoring. One of my friends quit cigarettes by using the gum. He used it for over 2 years. I hope I'm not still vaping in 2 years as my plan is to drop my nicotine strength every 2 months or so.

He finally quit chewing the nicorette on a daily basis, about 7 months ago, but he still keeps some on his person in case he ever starts thinking about smoking again.

I plan on weaning myself off of nicotine, but like him, I will always maintain an e-cig (my NRT)... just in case.

Certainly someone can write an article or set up a site dedicated on "how to quit nicotine by using the e-cig".

If only a few are successful, then you have the same performance base of other NRTs.

Also, I absolutely consider myself cigarette/tobacco free. Same as someone on the patch or gum.

The only difference is, I'm not back on cigarettes and am completely satisfied. The patch, gum, and lozenges did not work, they only 'delayed' my buying another pack because they were lacking in so many areas.

I don't have anything against adding a new category, but I don't think we should be treated differently like the FDA and others are trying to do. To me, NRT and "Cessation" don't have to be synonymous.

I would just like to call a duck, an actual duck here.

The reason not to call it a nrt whether it works like for you or not is because nrts have to be tested and approved by the FDA. The FDA is hell bent on getting these off the market and most of us think its because big pharma and big tob bottom line is shrinking.

Enjoy the tax free days while you can you may want to stock up as much as you can because very soon on the horizon ENI is going to be classified as a tob prod or a med product. If the court rules they are a tob prod they will be taxed. If they are ruled a med product (nrts are classifed as med prod)
they will be pulled off the market until the FDA approves them.

The whole thing is in the court system right now which if you like I can get you links to that thread but the days are growing short for eni being like it is now.

 

[Mister]

I thought NRT stood for nicotine replacement therapy? As in where you got your nicotine. But I could definitely be wrong.

...

I don't have anything against adding a new category, but I don't think we should be treated differently like the FDA and others are trying to do. To me, NRT and "Cessation" don't have to be synonymous.

I would just like to call a duck, an actual duck here.

Part of the problem here is that the duck has already been called something other than a duck and we can't change this.

You're right about what NRT stands for. But I think you are missing one of the implications, and that's another problem here. "Therapy" implies being "curative." E-cig users do not necessarily want to be cured of their nicotine needs and therefore e-cigs should not need to prove that they are "curative." Not that any existing NRT has demonstrated that to any plausible degree, but still, we don't want e-cigs to be held to the ridiculous standards required to prove that they are curative. (Standards which it seems can be met by spending a ton of time and money regardless of whether some product is or isn't curative, but that's another issue.)

 

[curiousJan]

I thought NRT stood for nicotine replacement therapy? As in where you got your nicotine. But I could definitely be wrong.

Don't know for sure, but I thought is was nicotine reduction therapy, which would fit with the anti's use of it and place anything described as NRT quite squarely into the cessation category.

Jan

 

[Thulium]

Don't know for sure, but I thought is was nicotine reduction therapy, which would fit with the anti's use of it and place anything described as NRT quite squarely into the cessation category.

Jan

It is Nicotine Replacement Therapy. I've suggested that instead of trying to replace the Nicotine, what we are trying to replace is the Smoking: The physical activity is a large part of what we crave (as demonstrated in Dr. E's research) and there is a mountain of evidence suggesting that it is specifically the products of combustion that account for overwhelming majority of health risks traditionally associated with tobacco use. Replace smoking with an equally or more satisfying activity like "vaping" significantly reduces the harm--potentially to levels that are reasonable over a long term.

 

[anim8r]

Thanks for the replies guys (I understand what you mean now). And Yeah, I'm stocked up for about a year.

My real concern was that they will be taxed (to hell and back) the second our government treats it as a smoking alternative. But the FDA has proven to be utterly opposed to e-cigs. So... better the one, and not the other.

 

[Brewster 59]

It is Nicotine Replacement Therapy. I've suggested that instead of trying to replace the Nicotine, what we are trying to replace is the Smoking: The physical activity is a large part of what we crave (as demonstrated in Dr. E's research) and there is a mountain of evidence suggesting that it is specifically the products of combustion that account for overwhelming majority of health risks traditionally associated with tobacco use. Replace smoking with an equally or more satisfying activity like "vaping" significantly reduces the harm--potentially to levels that are reasonable over a long term.

I dont profess to being a researcher but if ENI delervers no nic why is it that if I vape 24mg late at night I have a hard time going to sleep?

 

[Thulium]

I dont profess to being a researcher but if ENI delervers no nic why is it that if I vape 24mg late at night I have a hard time going to sleep?

I didn't say that it doesn't deliver nicotine. If it delivers no nic, it isn't an Electronic Nicotine Inhaler (ENI as you called it), is it?

When I have a hard time sleeping, I vape some Sleepy Time Green Tea Lung Juice (8mg/ml + melatonin & herbal blend)