From Newsweek writer re. BAT Vype e-cigarette

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Susan~S

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@DSJVapor - I agree (post #39).

If I had not started vaping late 2006 I would be thinking "dejavous" circa 2007/2008 with a "Lipton Pyramid Tea Bag Cart Modification" circa 2009/2010 (for the 1.5mls juice). At least then we could CHOOSE our flavors/nic concentration.

It's a SAD, SAD state of affairs if that's where this industry ends up. Not for me (I'm set for life should it come to that) but for all the millions who have not yet experienced what a great product CAN DELIVER in terms of helping them stop smoking.:(
 
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djsvapour

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@DJSVapor - I agree.

It's a SAD, SAD state of affairs if that's where this industry ends up. Not for me (I'm set for life should it come to that) but for all the millions who have not yet experienced what a great product CAN DELIVER in terms of helping them stop smoking.:(

Well, I don't think it's beyond the wit of any company (tobacco or not) to offer a product that works and has a fair price attached to it. My company has a £XX million turnover and we don't need to bully the market into corners or sell with dubious advertising claims.

Maybe it's possible for BAT to make more money from e-cigs than tobacco cigarettes. Maybe they can make something almost as good as what we have been spoiled with in the current market. Somehow, I don't see the e-Pen with it's less than impressive statistics winning that many fans. :)
 

rolygate

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................I'm keen to address the key waypoints in the development of the technology, notably in terms of products coming to market, arrival of second and third generation devices.............

Scroll to the bottom of this page for a full listing of the equipment progressions:

Vaping Terminology

In general discussion, these stages are much-simplified. Usually, people say that minis were generation 1, eGos and mods were gen 2, and VV devices (now more properly call APVs, since they are clearly no longer mods) are gen 3. Using such broad groups allows anything subsequent to be a gen 3 type (including VW types, high-power boxmods, etc.).


To talk of regulatory developments means to speak of specific countries:

1. USA
In the USA, the FDA tried to ban ecigs in 2010 by means of an import ban and a pharmaceutical license requirement. This failed at law, with a landmark decision by Judge Leon that has subsequently been repeated about 6 times in EU countries. In the US, the appeal went all the way up to the last court below the Supreme Court, with universal backing from every judge in every court for Judge Leon's decision (a total of 13 judges all in favour of overturning the FDA's action).

The FDA was very soon thereafter, in 2010, given rights to regulate tobacco products, though the two things were unrelated as the tobacco issue had been ongoing for years. Congress took the decision that ecigs must be a tobacco product or a medicinal product, and as the latter was struck down by the courts, the tobacco classification would be used by the FDA. The option to remain as a consumer product was not allowed. Note that in the EU, consumer products are very strictly regulated and somewhere between 17 and 21 statutes apply to ecigs (opinion varies); although in theory the same sort of thing applies in the US, since there is no local enforcement arm as in the UK for example with the Trading Standards system and the large number of local enforcement officers, in effect consumer products are unregulated, in practice, in the USA. It is true to say (in practice) that ecigs are unregulated in the USA, when this is the opposite of the case in the UK.

In order to regulate tobacco products, from scratch - there is no precedent - the FDA had to create a regulatory system. In order to bring ecigs into this system, as they are considered 'novel' products since they aren't cigarettes (and aren't tobacco products either, to be accurate), they had to issue a Deeming Proposal, to outline exactly how they would 'deem' ecig products to be tobacco products; how they would regulate them; how they would allow new products to be introduced; and by implication, how others would tax them. This process will result in regulations being implemented that are expected to kill off the independent ecig trade due to prohibitive costs, as it will cost millions to bring a single product to market, and the trade currently bring thousands of improvements and new products to market every year. So the effect will be to give the trade to those who can afford the bar to entry - the cigarette trade - and remove any product that is suitable for smokers to switch successfully to vaping and with any cost savings. Then, over time, ecigs can be virtually removed by regulation and taxation. This is mainly to protect cigarette sales in order to protect pharmaceutical sales (the drugs for treating all the smoking-generated disease) since the FDA is the world's best example of a regulatory-captured government agency; though obviously there are very large numbers of beneficiaries, and the main loser is public health.

US States
The States are desperate to protect cigarette sales, and this is a double necessity:
a) The tobacco tax revenues are critically important to them.
b) The MSA payments are equally important, and mean the difference between survival and economic chaos - especially in the worst-run States such as California and NY.

This is why you will see the Attorneys General fighting as hard as they possibly can to get ecigs banned. They even have a personal financial motive.

The almighty dollar
The clearest aspect of US ecig regs is the huge, almost incalculable, funds available to those who will toe the pharma-tax line. The MSA funds and NIH funds are so enormous that it is hard to see who would be honest enough to reject the money. The funding creates multi-millionaire liars like Glantz, who received $6 million just for last year. If you don't understand this, research MSA funds (over $200 billion assigned up to 2023) and the NIH funds (see Rodu today for example: http://rodutobaccotruth.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/nih-funding-stifles-tobacco-harm.html )

The money paid for lies is simply extraordinary: one researcher got $850,000 basically for junk science based on watching YouTube videos of vapers. This is the home of junk science, where people can become a millionaire if they are prepared to lie for money and don't care how many people die as a result.


2. EU
Tobacco in the EU is regulated by the EU Health Commission via the TPD. Commissioner Dalli rewrote this in order to ban ecigs by use of a pharmaceutical license categorisation. Dalli was sacked for corruption soon after, but the TPD rewrite remained on the books. It failed in the EU Parliament as MEPs rejected the pharmaceutical classification for ecigs (it would clearly also have failed at law).

Plan B was then revealed: in secret committees the TPD was rebuilt, classifying vapourisers as a tobacco product, and passed by the EU Council and The Council of Ministers (as this is classed as a health matter, this means a council of the 28 health ministers). The EU Parliament passed it as a compromise bill since it looked reasonable to some, and it allowed all the tobacco law changes to go through without problem, this time round.

The new TPD must be implemented by all 28 countries by May 2016. The EU law is 'transposed' or 'mirrored' into national law in this process. We cannot tell how this will be done in the UK, but it potentially allows most current products to be banned, all international web sales banned, all advertising banned, and all web advertising banned. Because ecig web advertising is banned under the TPD, it will almost certainly be used to close all ecig vendor websites, as just existing means they are advertising; if you can't have tobacco sales websites then you can't have ecig websites, as they are now 'a tobacco product'.

TW ecigs (Totally Wicked) has started the legal process to have it struck down, and their advisers are not using health as the challenge but EU law procedural issues, such as restraint of trade etc.

Again, this is going to be an effective way to kill off ecigs, perhaps not in year 1 (as a lot of enforcement procedures will need to be set up first) but certainly in later years. The very small number of inefficient products left will be given to the cigarette trade as the costs will be prohibitive for anyone else.

The goal is: retail sales only, with no advertising, and only a few of the most inefficient products left on the market, at very high cost, with taxes equivalent to (or greater than) tobacco taxes. They failed in an outright ban, but it appears that a 99.9% ban will be permitted. This is a tremendous win for the gov/pharma/tobacco/fake charity machine as they can now say that ecigs are permitted and were not banned.


3. UK
The UK is currently unique in several respects:
a) Ecig products are already strictly regulated by at least 17 laws (some say 21), and the regulations are enforced at local level, on all retailers including website operators. We are not aware of anywhere else in the world that this applies.

b) The most senior public health figures, even those in tobacco control, widely and publicly support ecigs. There are one or two notable exceptions, but they are not given too much credence even by the media, as the issues are fairly obvious (one is clearly a spokesperson for GSK pharmaceuticals). When John Britton [1], Robert West, Peter Hajek and other say that ecigs are to be supported, it is very hard for less prominent staff to disagree.

Even CRUK, a major pharma beneficiary and therefore a primary distributor of the usual lies and propaganda, has been told to shut up by these eminent professors - and CRUK have had to bite their tongue and do as told. They will have to sacrifice some pharma funds, perhaps, but otherwise their chief medical backers will pull out, and the fallout would be hard to conceal. A cancer charity accused of promoting cancer by the most eminent professors in the land would be rather amusing to see - and their current massive TV advertising drive would become a joke, remarked on even in the Daily Fail, aka pharma propaganda central.

The UK situation really is unique in this respect, and we are eternally grateful to these medics - some of the few honest members of their profession at this level.

What remains to be seen is how the TPD is implemented, if it survives legal challenge. Since the Department of (Pharmaceutical) Health does exactly as it is told by its paymasters in Geneva, the prospects are not good.


Elsewhere
That's the current US, EU and UK regulatory situation. As for the banana republics like Lithuania etc., they depend so much on tobacco tax revenues they don't even care about any apology or concealment of their actions to ban or tax ecigs out of contention in order to protect cigarette tax revenues.


The WHO
A fine collection of pharma whores, and one of the principal protectors of the cigarette trade. To discuss the detail is like discussing faeces, so I won't.


The role of the Public Health Industry
The propaganda needed to create a climate of fear in which it is seen as justifiable to tax new products that will (if left alone) remove smoking, and that are harmless when compared to smoking, is created and published by the Public Health Industry. This consists of fake charities, front groups and universities owned by pharma. Their spokespersons largely control the main media presence, often helped by the fact that the power of pharma's advertising funds is crucial to the media now. Where Chantix is advertised, no support for THR will be found.




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[1] There is a clear argument to be made that Prof Britton, Chair of the Royal College of Physicians' Tobacco Group, is the world's senior tobacco control spokesman. He is the direct descendent, if you like, of Prof Sir Richard Doll, who started it all. To paraphrase Britton slightly: "If all UK smokers switched to ecigs we would save five million lives, just among those alive today, just in the UK". No one has had the temerity (or stupidity) to contradict him.
 

Robino1

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Each 100 mAh is supposed to equal an hour of use. Taking that time frame, 650 mAh is supposed to give the user approximately 6 hours of use. That really depends on how often you actually use the device.

Say the vapor production is minimal and is not efficient in delivering the nicotine, one may try use the device a lot more to try to get satisfaction. That device will not last the 6 hours.

I am not a math wiz so I can't say what an 80 mAh device will typically last but if you go by what the 650 mAh time frame is..... it sure doesn't look like very much! I personally use a battery that is rated at 2200 mAh and that may or may not last me through a day. Dependent on how often I use my device. If I am sitting around not doing much of anything, out of boredom I will use it more often. If I have things to do, I use it less and of course it will last longer.

Typically, the devices that use a higher mAh battery will be a better device. Again that is dependent on the efficiency of the part that is put on the battery to deliver the nic.

Most people will tell you that they were not able to stop the usage of cigarettes until they found a device that actually worked better and power to the heating element does have a role to play. As well as how often one needs to charge the darn thing to keep going.

I cannot see an 80 mAh device even coming close to being worth any consideration in getting. The only people that would buy something like that are the ones that are desperate to stop smoking and they will fail with something that lasts only an hour at best.
 

djsvapour

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Further to my last, the above for the ePen. For the eStick the relevant figures are:

80 MaH and 3.7v

No surprise there. That is pathetic... really.. BUT it's a PCC kit. The PCC keeps the battery charged.

Actually, this technology is 3 years old. PCC kits have been tried and tested. The worrying part is the £2.66 for about 6 or 7 cigarettes in Nicotine yield.
 
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djsvapour

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Hello, just got the following info from BAT re. Vype technical specs. Very interested to hear thoughts from users here:

Battery capacity is 640 mAh

Voltage levels are 4V and 3.6V for high and low power respectively.

The coil is in the cartridge (eCap), so every time you fit a new cartridge you are also fitting a new coil.

Simon

4v is an improvment on the 3v Susan S was told in her email from BAT. (can't both be right...)

4v (max setting ) with the refill (2.8ohms) is about a 5.8 watt vape. I shall go and try a 5.8 watt vape and see how that is.
 

pbxbelmar

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Hi Simon,

Having read through this thread some things come to mind:

1. Big tobacco and big Pharma are putting together an entry to the ecig market in an attempt to save their revenue stream.
2. Given the obsolete technology in this device you're researching they really aren't interested in providing a viable quitting device for the masses.
3. The UK regulating vaping out of reach of the masses will create effects similar to the American Prohibition of alcohol - people will still vape, it will just go black market and create a whole new crop of 'law breakers' for the government to deal with (if they so choose). I don't know a single vaper who has quit smoking who will want to give up vaping to go back to smoking.

There are currently multitudes of simple devices more effective (both in cost and vaping satisfaction) than what BAT seems to be offering. To kill an emerging market which has such a high potential to save lives, for the sake of protecting the tobacco and pharmaceutical lobby's profits is collusion of the worst kind between government and money-grubbing industry.
 
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jseah

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Simon, here are my thoughts on this as I am a fairly new vaper. I tried quitting two years ago and purchased a blu (cigalike kit here in the US) kit with two small batteries and using cartomizer cartridges. The draw was very difficult, and you really didn't feel much at all. Used it for all of a few days and went back to cigarettes. Fast forward to this January and I decided to quit again. Being fairly novice at this, I saw at the store that blu now made a kit that utilized mini tanks instead of cartomizers, and with bigger batteries. Bought the kit for $45 and tried it and I had finally found the solution that worked for me. Once I started using it, I was able to quit smoking cigarettes entirely. The replacement single use mini tanks runs $15 for 3 tanks, and soon I found that I was going through 2 tanks a day and with the two small batteries, I was going through 4 to 5 batteries a day. This meant that I was spending more on vaping than I was spending on cigarettes. So I started researching knowing that if I did not have to rely on buying pre-filled tanks, it would be cheaper in the long run.

I am nowhere near the level that many on this board are. I still want a small form factor, I would love it if I could get it down to the convenience similar to reaching into your pocket, pulling out a pack of cigarettes, pulling one out and puffing on it. I don't really care for the huge batteries, I am perfectly happy with swapping out batteries if necessary and don't need to have the battery last me days or weeks before recharging. I don't care about rebuilding or making my own coils, nor do I care about mixing up my own juice. I'm perfectly happy with just loading up the tank with juice and done. Using your car analogy, I am the type that don't mind replacing the air filter or wiper blades myself, but I have no interest in learning how to rebuild a transmission. Maybe at some point I may learn to be interested in replacing the spark plugs or changing the brakes myself, but I am not at that point yet.

The solution that I have settled on, the Halo Triton system (I have also purchased a Kangertech Evod kit, and the Halo g6 kit) is a good compromise as far as size and convenience goes. The initial cost is comparable. The Triton kit costs $65, the g6 kit was $45 and the Evod kit was $30. The savings comes from being able to fill my own tanks. Granted, tanks don't last forever, nor do coils, but I am now vaping about 3 ml per day or a little less and if I have to replace my coil once a week to 10 days and I spend $20 for a 30 ml bottle of juice that will last me 10 days, that is still a little over 40% of the cost of the single use tanks from blu.and less than 1/3 the cost of staying with cigarettes.
 

jseah

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3. The UK regulating vaping out of reach of the masses will create effects similar to the American Prohibition of alcohol - people will still vape, it will just go black market and create a whole new crop of 'law breakers' for the government to deal with (if they so choose). I don't know a single vaper who has quit smoking who will want to give up vaping to go back to smoking.

What I find interesting is the latest push to regulate and "criminalize" vaping, and yet at the same time there is a push to decriminalize ..........
 

djsvapour

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The solution that I have settled on, the Halo Triton system (I have also purchased a Kangertech Evod kit, and the Halo g6 kit) is a good compromise as far as size and convenience goes. The initial cost is comparable. The Triton kit costs $65, the g6 kit was $45 and the Evod kit was $30. The savings comes from being able to fill my own tanks. Granted, tanks don't last forever, nor do coils, but I am now vaping about 3 ml per day or a little less and if I have to replace my coil once a week to 10 days and I spend $20 for a 30 ml bottle of juice that will last me 10 days, that is still a little over 40% of the cost of the single use tanks from blu.and less than 1/3 the cost of staying with cigarettes.

Helpful comments. :)

The 'maths' on the Vype e-Pen will be the stumbling block. 3ml of liquid a day is a common liquid usage.

3ml costs me £1.50 (£4.99 for 10ml) and only 75p using cheaper liquid. Top end, I'm looking at £500 a year.

3ml on the Vype e-Pen is £5.32 per day or £1,944.00 a year.

How long can BAT realistically expect people to use the product for once they realise the costs? Like I have said before. Smokers never bothered to ask anybody what brand they were smoking. Vapers ALWAYS ask about other vapers hardware... it's totally normal.... like trying somebody else's beer or wine in a pub.

No prizes for guessing BAT will make more money on the e-Pens than tobacco cigarettes. Good Business for them. Lousy for us if they win the battle after the 2016 EU TPD.
 
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jseah

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Helpful comments. :)

The 'maths' on the Vype e-Pen will be the stumbling block. 3ml of liquid a day is a common liquid usage.

3ml costs me £1.50 (£4.99 for 10ml) and only 75p using cheaper liquid. Top end, I'm looking at £500 a year.

3ml on the Vype e-Pen is £5.32 per day or £1,944.00 a year.

How long can BAT realistically expect people to use the product for once they realise the costs? Like I have said before. Smokers never bothered to ask anybody what brand they were smoking. Vapers ALWAYS ask about other vapers hardware... it's totally normal.... like trying somebody else's beer or wine in a pub.

No prizes for guessing BAT will make more money on the e-Pens than tobacco cigarettes. Good Business for them. Lousy for us if they win the battle after the 2016 EU TPD.

You Brits get the short end of the stick since prices in the UK are comparable to the US, except they're denominated in GBP and not USD. That's why every time I see a Brit vacationing here in the US, they are always shopping since they're basically buying everything at a 40 percent discount compared to home.

I believe that cost may be a huge factor for many. As for myself, I didn't have any health issues from smoking (although they most likely would start), so it was do I want to pay over $3,000 a year to the tobacco companies, or less than $1,000 a year to vape? That savings would cover the cost of filling up my car for over half a year.
 
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djsvapour

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Oh... as a follow up.

I found my most accurate mod (accurate with volts/watts/ohms) and tried out a genuine 5.8 watt vape.

..what can I say, that nobody is expecting... ?? It's a terrible vape, on a par with disposables and/or Nicolites, 10 Motives, E-Lites.

Nicolites, 10 Motives and E-Lites are only suitable as an introduction to vaping. There is little 'satisfaction' in puffing on such a dreadful product, and there is no chance whatsoever of the Nicotine yield being anything other than a fraction of 1 cigarette per 10 puffs.

So - there it is. Thesis completed.

You could buy a Vype product, but even the *flagship* model is going to be about the same as a 5.99p disposable from your local supermarket.
OK, so the battery won't run out, but soon enough you WILL be reaching for your cigarettes to stop the cravings.
 
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blacksmithpro

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Hi Simon, Rolygate has this very very well covered in his posts thus far here. I would advise that you truly take them on board before writing any kind of puff piece about Vype. I'll add this bit of history though so you know what Vype actually is. Vype is not new, it is merely a rebranded product that is at this point, way over 5 years old. Cigalike technology hasn't evolved really since the first cigalikes were released in approximate size to a cigarette. The biggest change to them has been a tiny auto activation chip inside that activates the circuit when air is drawn through the system. Earliest version of this chip were also activated by sound which made them dangerous, newer versions in the last 3 years are not.
With regard to Medical Licensing, Rolygate is 100% correct in the fact that nothing electronic will ever attain that license which is not an accident, it is purposeful. BAT does have the license for a certain technology which you have alluded to in an earlier post here. Said "pressurised" cigalike device is actually well known and was first heard of over 2 years ago when the UK company behind it was formed and started receiving investment to develop it further by a lot of very very rich heads of big business here in the UK and abroad. It is an inhaler though, not an ecig. It looks like a cigarette in its size but comes with a cigarette packet sized refill package to place the device into to refill it. It will deliver the precise and pressurised dose that is required for medicinal licensing but the contents of it will be measured out like NRT so 4mg will be the limit (IF there is a higher one, that will require a prescription from a doctor). The problem with this, beyond completely lacking any heat to simulate the smoking experience or vapor to simulate smoke, is the dosage as Rolygate has eluded to previously. For majority of smokers, the action of smoking is a mouth to lung inhale, when this is done through vaping, the first and largest portion of the delivery of nicotine is to the palate and throat which is a much slower absorbency path than the lungs (there is more at work here but I don't want to overwhelm with science but many things in vaping can be adjusted that can lead to the user needing less nicotine for efficient delivery to remove need for cigalike's having up to 45mg). Vapers self titrate their nicotine intake through more than simply this slow absorbency because vaping isn't simply about nicotine, it is about simulation of smoking and preferences on the experience through heat, vapor production and most importantly flavour. Between what we call Throat Hit (the feeling of nicotine and flavour hitting the throat on inhale), flavour, vapor production and motion of the act of using our ecigs, we use until we are satiated, satisfied. That satisfaction evolves too when not using a cigalike device to be more than simply lighting a cigarette and using it until it is finished. The habit changes, in a good way, from the simplicity of lighting and burning to just short of the filter, inhaling along the way. It changes as the basics of vaping do not involve any burning or throw away in the traditional smoking sense. The longer a user uses an ecig, the further they transition away from what is the hardest thing to kick in a smoking habit, every part of the routine and our attachments/associations with them. They still get the motion, they still get the visual and a close enough sensation and satisfaction that makes transition from one form to another, easy (this can be different for some as everyone's needs are different). Once transitioned though, it is different enough to make going back to smoking difficult for many. Users pick up new attachments, appeals beyond merely health benefits from not inhaling so much smoke so many times a day, that they value and derive enjoyment from and can turn to out of choice and also dependence for stress relief and routine instead of smoking at those times. It can be a true replacement and at its heart it is truly a less harmful one than smoking can ever be, no matter how tobacco is treated, burnt, heated or chemically adjusted by science.
Apologies for the long drawn out explanation but to put it simply. A pressurised inhaler of nicotine mist at 4mg will essentially be a placebo cigalike ecig if not worse since it lacks heat and vapor production. It will show on paper as the user absorbing nicotine into the blood stream, it will meet the requirements for medicinal licensing but it will be, just like NRT, an utter failure at getting anyone to quit smoking. This is an appearance game, appear to do a thing, have science numbers to back it up but zero feedback from users to say if it actually does what it says. It is about more than numbers, a habit or addiction is about more than numbers, it is about more than the science of chemistry, it is about human psychology too. It is about the human experience and that experience cannot be boiled down to numbers on paper.
 
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Simon Akam

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Folks, thanks as before for your well informed posts.

I have now drafted a summary of the technological development of the e-cig over the past decade and the parallel regulatory dance. My feeling is this is very bare bones at the moment; I would like include more technological distinctions between first and second gen. then I have at the moment (inc. voltage, wattage etc), personal experiences of use of various devices, and potentially the US as well as the EU regulatory situation. Suggestions gratefully received. In particular I need to give a few examples of first gen products, currently marketed x, and y: Also if there is anything incorrect here, esp. on technical issues, please do let me know:

First generation e-cigarettes mirrored conventional cigarettes in form and shape, hence the common alternate name of the ‘cig-a-like.’ These devices used sealed reservoirs of nicotine solution that could be not be refilled, their batteries could usually not be recharged. They were, in effect, single use products. Examples in the UK included x and y. The adherence to c-cigarette dimensions imposed major constraint on the size of the battery with consequent impacts on performance. Many smokers found – and indeed still find – cigalikes fundamentally unsatisfying products.

A second-generation device – again, broadly speaking – is distinguished by its reusable nature, a battery that can be recharged, and reservoir that can be refilled with liquid. At the Vapeshop Hungarian manager xx (name redacted), emitting huge clouds of Watermelon mint vapour as he spoke, pointed to the Joyetech 510 on sale here for £30, and the cCom-C Twist at £45 as examples of these devices. The option to use third party e-liquid led to a proliferation of flavour and juice; while these devices tended to be more expensive than cig-a-likes as upfront purchases their ‘open system’ nature and third party liquid makes them cheaper to use long term.

Third generation products are more elaborate still, often distinguished by wicks and atomisers that can be rebuilt when worn out (or coated, as is wont to happen, in carbonised vegetable glycol), and options to adjust the voltage and wattage. Many of these devices bear no physical resemblance to cigarettes whatsoever; instead they look like starter pistols, or microphones, or even, in the case of the Innokin iTaste 134, a Gatling gun. Many users say second and third generation devices provide a more satisfying vaping experience, and are more effective at helping them to wean themselves off conventional cigarettes. That finding is supported by a paper published in the scientific journal Nature last year, which showed new generation devices produced blood nicotine levels 35-72% higher than first generation devices, though delivery was still slower than with conventional cigarettes.

If that surmises the technological shift then the parallel regulatory dance is complicated too. Again, e-cigarettes left field entrance is germane, as unexpected arrivals, for some time regulators just did not know what to do with them. In Europe it initially looked like medicines regulation was the most likely path. However, the EU’s second tobacco products directive, which was approved in February 2014 and will come into effect in May 2016, will instead provide two routes to certification, first as a tobacco product, and secondly as medical device. The tobacco products will be limited to a maximum eliquid strength of 20mg/millitre, an amount many vapors believe to be too low for effective smoking cessation, and will be forbidden from some forms of advertising, notably television. Taking the medical device route will require a costly and complex regulatory approval process, which is likely to be out of the reach of the many independent players who have pioneered the market thus far.
 

jseah

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I believe there is an error in the description of a first generation device. First generation devices, the cig-alikes, have both disposable (non-rechargeable) and rechargeable versions. The first generation is distinguished by the cartomizers, the cartridges with a e-liquid soaked sponge.

There is also an error in your statement about Europe proposing to limit eliquid strength to 20 mg/ml. If this limit is in place, I don't believe that would be an issue with many vapers. With the third generation devices, more powerful wattage, sub-ohm coils, this concentration will be more than sufficient. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence from users here that with those devices, they will use much lower strength juices since the nicotine delivery is much more efficient.
 

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That finding is supported by a paper published in the scientific journal Nature last year, which showed new generation devices produced blood nicotine levels 35-72% higher than first generation devices, though delivery was still slower than with conventional cigarettes.

I believe you are talking here about paper published in Scientific Reports - well respected journal from Nature group, but not Nature itself.
 

Shirtbloke

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Apr 26, 2014
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There is also an error in your statement about Europe proposing to limit eliquid strength to 20 mg/ml. If this limit is in place, I don't believe that would be an issue with many vapers. With the third generation devices, more powerful wattage, sub-ohm coils, this concentration will be more than sufficient. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence from users here that with those devices, they will use much lower strength juices since the nicotine delivery is much more efficient.

I'll take issue with this. I'm using a 3rd gen device (Istick) and I use 27mg most of the time and sometimes 36mg when I need it. Tried going down to 18mg and I started smoking again. Some people need more than 20mg and I'm one of them. I think legislation limiting things to 20mg will be a disaster for some people.
 
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