Frustrated by DIY

[Stifle]

Hey DIYers,

This is more of a feedback post on the progress (or lack thereof) I have made thus far.

I started with some PG 24mg, VG for dilution a mix of about 15 Lorann's and 5 FA flavorings (all that seemed to be good stand alones for my tastes) and stevia for my sweetener.

I've tried literally every combination I can create with this mix ranging my flavor percentages (starting with recommendations from ECF), using and leaving out sweetener, different nic levels, different steep times and mixing different flavorings. If you can make it with what I've got, I've tried...

I have found my progress and success to be "stifling" (lol..). While I have made a couple of fruit flavors and mixes that are vapeable they are severely less satisfying than my pre-made ones from FSUSA and LF. To boot, while I am spending less money on DIY to make the same amount of ml as I would be pre-made, I've found that I am either not vaping or straight throwing out about 3/4 of what I make.

I've been messing with DIY for about 2 weeks and have made in the range of 120 ml of different small batch samples to try to get something I like and nothing has come even close to some of the pre-mades I've tried. I have learned that I much prefer FA flavors over Lorann's..but aside from that I still feel pretty lost.

Here's hoping it gets better, but ultimately I want to keep vaping instead of reverting back to analogs and if DIY is causing me to lose the pleasure of vaping I may need to switch back to my pre-mades. I am only slightly confused as to why I have seen such limited success because I really enjoy the process of DIY but I just haven't seen any sort of tangible result.

/diy rant off

Thanks for all the help everyone provided anyhow!

**EDIT - This is not to say that people should not try DIY, if i had some degree of skill or patience it is obvious that this is a HUGE cost saving measure and people seem to be able to make some really tasty stuff. I personally am struggling with it..but I haven't given up entirely and I hope that I see some more progress here soon. **

 

[supremekizzle]

I can't seem to make a good juice if my life depended on it either. What are vendors doing to create such tasty juices? I have heard that a lot of FSUSA juices are basically what we are trying to do; combine VG/PG and Flavourart flavors. What are we missing? I have had many attempts at trying to make some of the more "savory" flavors but have since given up on that. I was hoping my next step would be some nice simple light and airy fruit flavors but if you are in the same boat as me and Fruity flavors don't seem to change anything I don't think ill even atempt them then. I dunno, is the owner of FSUSA pretty nice? Maybe we could contact him for help.

 

[Stifle]

I can't seem to make a good juice if my life depended on it either. What are vendors doing to create such tasty juices? I have heard that a lot of FSUSA juices are basically what we are trying to do; combine VG/PG and Flavourart flavors. What are we missing? I have had many attempts at trying to make some of the more "savory" flavors but have since given up on that. I was hoping my next step would be some nice simple light and airy fruit flavors but if you are in the same boat as me and Fruity flavors don't seem to change anything I don't think ill even atempt them then. I dunno, is the owner of FSUSA pretty nice? Maybe we could contact him for help.

Don't get me wrong, my fruit flavors are better than the savory/candy/bakery flavors I've tried. They are the ones that are vapeable. But, my simple single fruit FA flavors are not nearly as good as the other pre-mixed fruit flavors I've tried.

I'm hoping some kind soul will shed some light on this..but good to know I'm not the only one having little luck with DIY! I've been reading about all the success people have had with mixing their own juice and was feeling kind of like a dunce for not being able to do it correctly.

 

[5vz]

I too am new at diy e liquid. I don't know what you are missing in your juices, but I would try Cotton Candy flavoring for sweetener instead of stevia. Seems that is the going sweetener and probably states better than stevia in juice.

Also, according to youtube, your juice may not reach peak flavor for one month. I watched this young lady discussing just that:

YouTube - Steeping Tips and Tricks

 

[aprioristic]

I too am new at diy e liquid. I don't know what you are missing in your juices, but I would try Cotton Candy flavoring for sweetener instead of stevia. Seems that is the going sweetener and probably states better than stevia in juice.

Also, according to youtube, your juice may not reach peak flavor for one month. I watched this young lady discussing just that:

YouTube - Steeping Tips and Tricks

Cotton Candy is ethyl maltol. EM isn't a "sweetener" but a strong sugar-like flavor/odor. EM is very useful but never going to give you a real sweetness.

What is usually called "sweetener" is sucralose. I'm not real fond of it and am going to look at stevia. It seems like certain types of stevia don't work well but others do.

I could be wrong but doesn't she say to leave bottles out to the air to steep? (I saw it a while ago). Maybe if your juice has a bad perfumey smell, but otherwise I don't see why that is necessary. PG and VG are humectants (draw in water) so it is probably a bad thing if anything. I just fill something with hot tap water and soak my bottles, along with some shaking to steep.

Anyhow, for the OP: I would stop using Lorann's. People will say it is fine to use, etc. etc. but I don't agree so much. Maybe try to look for recipes that you think you would like then buy those ingredients. It isn't clear to me what is wrong with your mixes besides that you don't like them. Maybe you are just mixing at bad percents and need more trial and error, IDK.

 

[VaporSmith]

I'm in the same boat. Been doing DIY for almost a year now. Yes, the process and experimenting are fun but always hoping for better results. I"m very happy with my DIY tobacco mixes. All FlavourArt 6-8% and all as good as or better than anything I've bought. I've tried so many of the fruit / candy / beverage flavors testing in increments of 2% up to 30%, waiting impatiently for them to steep from days to weeks that I've lost track despite documenting every step. I'm meticulous about measuring drops for every flavor and ingredient. Even so, I suspect that may be part of the problem.

When / if I get to the best flavoring percentage most of my non-tobacco mixes are just "OK". Vapeable but not as good as store bought. That's a lot of work for something you're not excited about. I've found hardware makes a big difference as well. I have some 510 atty's new and old that produce good flavor and some hardly any. 801 / 901 atty's are supposed to be more flavorful. The 801's I used in the past were but at the expense of TH.

Until our industry progresses some I guess we'll just have to accept that eating a watermelon doesn't taste the same as smoking one. Or, hope some of these talented juice chefs start posting their recipes instead of selling us the fruits of their labor. So, my plan is to target a flavor, make the rounds of the various vendors (thankfully flavoring is cheap) and if nothing works, move on or buy it from the vendor. In other words - keep trying.

 

[Para]

I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but here's a few tips that might help:

Mix samples with precise measurements
Keep detailed records of what you produce
Use glass containers and taste before you produce the recipe
Start simple.....make the best simple recipe you can and pay attention to how it changes as you evolve the recipe

DIY is both art and science and there's no substitute for experience. You'll be better in 2 months than you are at 2 weeks and not at good as you will be in 2 years. IOW, keep at it, but have a plan to get where you want to be. My obsession is chocolate. I've thrown away several hundred ml to get a handful of creations I really like and really like every day. But, those wasted ml gave me a knowledge base to have a pretty good idea of what will happen if I add this or add that and how much of each. In another 6 months, if I have a few "home runs" it will be well worth the investment in time and materials. However, a few vendors have some special flavors I'll never be able to replicate and don't really care to. I'll always buy those and don't mind it one bit.

 

[zoiDman]

I can't seem to make a good juice if my life depended on it either. What are vendors doing to create such tasty juices? I have heard that a lot of FSUSA juices are basically what we are trying to do; combine VG/PG and Flavourart flavors. What are we missing? ...

One thing that new DIY-ers find is that very few juices are made up of just one flavor.

You might try doing some flavor blending. A drop of pineapple works in most fruit mixes. Bavarian Cream and Vanilla are in many sweet brown juices. So is cinnamon.

Here is a recipe you might try or tweek if you like.

 

[Sassyonemeis]

I am really glad I saw this thread. I was just contemplating jumping in to the DIY, and honestly, I dont really have the money to waste trying to figure out that I'm doing it wrong and end up throwing away a majority of the juices I would concoct.

I think I will just stick with creating my own over at GV for now. Maybe at some point down the line I will take the leap into DIY.

 

[Troutbum]

I'm right there with 'ya. I've wasted/thrown away alot of juice while DIY and still haven't come up with even one really good recipe. I've gotten to the point that I will even vape the bad stuff, just to keep from wasting it, but I really don't like it much.

Then again, I really don't like most of the pre-made stuff I've tried either.

Maybe I'm just hard to please.................

 

[Stownz]

One thing they don't really say when DIY: Mix in bigger batches. We normally do 15ml test batches, sometimes 10. Reason is to get the measurements absolutely perfect. VERY hard to do that when trying to make 1-2ml tests. Drops are very inacurate.

 

[icemanx3]

This thread just scared the DIY out of me...hmmm. Is it really that hard?

ice

 

[zoiDman]

DIY is kinda like cooking. Some people are better at it than others.

 

[maltose66]

I am a new DIYer but I find I can get good repeatability in a 5ml test bottle with a 1ml syringe. If I am careful I can do a 2% addition (0.1ml) of flavor with a 1ml syringe. None of my recopies so far use that little of flavor.

If you are not already, try mixing just the flavors together. They are cheap. Then you will be adding more volume to your blank juice. Try your flavor mix with no nic PG/VG then when you get something that works add it to your expensive ejuice.

All these comments have been great.

Are you making up your own creations or following others?

 

[pm2006]

Malto, that is the best suggestion. VG is cheap. Flavors don't cost much either. Try all your DIY's with no nic first and if you really hate it, I won't have cost that much.

 

[dspin]

Thats what I always do. Mix the flav w/vg first in smaller amts. Very cheap doing it that way. If you don't like it - no nic is ruined. But write down what you are doing or adding. Use the same type dropper or syringe for all the liquids. One drop here or there will change the taste.

Malto, that is the best suggestion. VG is cheap. Flavors don't cost much either. Try all your DIY's with no nic first and if you really hate it, I won't have cost that much.

 

[supremekizzle]

Anyone have any tips or tricks specifically for fruity flavors? I'm pretty much done trying to make savory.

 

[markfm]

I do a vanilla-banana-strawberry with 8% seedmans vanilla, 8% tpa banana cream, 6% tpa strawberry.

For a non-pg version, use natures flavors vanilla, banana, strawberry, same %.

For nf, use their coffee and tea flavoring system flavors.

 

[Stifle]

Thanks for all the responses folks!

I appreciate all of the info...Ill certainly keep trying!

 

[zoiDman]

One last thing to consider when working up a DIY recipe. Try to make weaker flavors first before making stronger flavors.

If you make a batch of say Waffle and it doesn’t taste right, you can many times fix it by adding a stronger flavor like Cinnamon or Bourbon to make Cinnamon-Waffle or Bourbon-Waffle. But if you start with a strong flavor it is more difficult to fix it by adding weaker flavors.

Keep good, detailed records and let any mix sit for 48 hours minimum before testing.

Best of luck and post a recipe when you get a good one.