Genesis-Style..?
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A rebuildable deck that sits atop a tank with a hole just large enough for a piece of Stainless steel mesh to pass through which you would wrap your coil around. characteristics that define Genesis style atomizers for me personally are: Dry hits, acrid flavor from stainless steel mesh, frustration.
Many people swear by Genesis designs, I swear I'll never own one again. the inherent flaw in the design is that your juice is below your coil and to get from the tank to the coil, it has to fight gravity. some people report success by using some method of getting cotton wick in there, others don't mind walking around taking a toot with their vaporizer inverted like they're drinking from a beer bottle.
I think there are far better designs out there these days.
Many people swear by Genesis designs, I swear I'll never own one again. the inherent flaw in the design is that your juice is below your coil and to get from the tank to the coil, it has to fight gravity. some people report success by using some method of getting cotton wick in there, others don't mind walking around taking a toot with their vaporizer inverted like they're drinking from a beer bottle.
I think there are far better designs out there these days.
I disagree that there is a flaw in the design. If wicked and coiled properly the juice climbs the mesh through capillary action. There are other designs that work as well such as a RTA but a genesis atomizer is far superior to all clearomizers, cartomizers, etc.
^ either bought a super ....ty atty or doesn't know how to build gennys or both. You can get dry hits on any atomizer, regardless of design or style. Perfecting the atomizer's ability to wick has nothing to do with the mod maker/style and everything to do with the person building/wicking.
I personally believe gennys have the most pure, unaltered flavor. I use RDAs like my Atomic, Trident and Nimbus all the time. I always end up going back to my gennys though. I get sick of my RDAs and I think this has to do with, and this is completely my own theory, the fact that along with vapor you inhale from vaporized liquid you are also inhaling liquid itself that is unvaporized.
You are probably correct, I probably got a crappy product, and didn't stick with it long enough to learn how to get them to work efficiently.
That being said, I think there are far easier platforms to build on that are more forgiving. I disagree that genesis designs give the "purest, unadulterated flavor." But when you talk about something like flavor it's ultimately subjective. personally, I have yet to find a product that performs as well as my Russian (full), but you are welcome to have your own preferences. There is very little in this that is absolutely right or absolutely wrong. There is what you like and what I like and we don't have to agree.
Recapping replies so far...coil around a wick atop a deck above a tank...wick penetrating deck.
What about air..? Is a side hole in the top cap of a genny a defining factor, or is a atomizer with air coming up a center tube a genny as well?
What about air..? Is a side hole in the top cap of a genny a defining factor, or is a atomizer with air coming up a center tube a genny as well?
Air comes in from a hole in the deck right next to the wick. I have yet to see a genny that gets its air through the 510/center post. Picture how the flow of air from a hole in the cop cap passes through/over the wick, while if it came from the center post, it would go straight up the drip tip when you suck on it.
One factor that may or may not be defining for a gennies is also the wicking material traditionally used in them. A wick made up of rolled up stainless steel (very fine) mesh. This is probably what makes it harder to learn to set up properly, since SS mesh is in itself conductive. So, you have to build up a fine layer of oxide between the coil and the mesh to avoid shorts. This takes some practice. More practice to get the wire tension just right, also, compared to fiber wicks. (Silica/Ekowool/Cotton, etc).
It's not hard, it just takes som practice. Some gennies are easier to set up that others. One major factor is distance from wick to center post. Too long of a distance, and there will be too much of a span (read: coil wire that is not cooled by liquid or the mesh itself). This spanned wire will heat up more than the coil itself, and cause nasty flavor.
One factor that may or may not be defining for a gennies is also the wicking material traditionally used in them. A wick made up of rolled up stainless steel (very fine) mesh. This is probably what makes it harder to learn to set up properly, since SS mesh is in itself conductive. So, you have to build up a fine layer of oxide between the coil and the mesh to avoid shorts. This takes some practice. More practice to get the wire tension just right, also, compared to fiber wicks. (Silica/Ekowool/Cotton, etc).
It's not hard, it just takes som practice. Some gennies are easier to set up that others. One major factor is distance from wick to center post. Too long of a distance, and there will be too much of a span (read: coil wire that is not cooled by liquid or the mesh itself). This spanned wire will heat up more than the coil itself, and cause nasty flavor.
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If you were to give a list of pros and cons when reviewing atomizer designs, this would be the biggest con. The learning curve is just to much of a barrier to overcome. I fiddled and fiddled with my genesis type for probably two weeks and never could either get a good vape or a consistent build from one coil to the next. Then I get my hands on a Kayfun and a Russian and suddenly I'm a God when it comes to making coils. The design itself might not be flawed, I'll grant you, but it shouldn't be that hard to get a good vape, and in deed it isn't as I've come to realize as I've used my Russian and been more than happy with it's performance.
Two engineers come up with two independently different designs for something that does the same thing. Which is the better product, the design that a novice can master with ease or the design that requires hours of instruction and practice to master? I go with the former!
Good point; I haven't seen any so called rebuildables that pull air up from the center tube instead of the side; I guess on the genesis the center tube is used to bring up the eletricity only.
Last time I looked at PBusardo's website, there was a poll for people using both KFs and genesis-style RBAs. The result was 90% in favor of people who prefer the KF. But I've spoken to a number of people who have tried a lot of different RBAs yet still swear by gennies -- I've got a Cobra coming in the next couple days, can't wait to try it out.
I bought an HC KF clone, but I only did a couple builds before it broke. My first impressions were very promising, so I'm looking forward to trying it again when the replacement arrives. As mentioned above, doing coils on the KF is very simple, which is a huge plus for someone like me (i klutz out a lot when trying to rebuild PT coils). Fortunately, because I got the Cobra through the classifieds, it will arrive already built. Should be much easier copying a good build, rather than having to figure it out from scratch.
-- Glenn
I bought an HC KF clone, but I only did a couple builds before it broke. My first impressions were very promising, so I'm looking forward to trying it again when the replacement arrives. As mentioned above, doing coils on the KF is very simple, which is a huge plus for someone like me (i klutz out a lot when trying to rebuild PT coils). Fortunately, because I got the Cobra through the classifieds, it will arrive already built. Should be much easier copying a good build, rather than having to figure it out from scratch.
-- Glenn
There are varying degrees of difficulty in setting up various gennies. I started with an Aga T2. It was a PITA, and can still be. Other atties can be a lot easier. I've read a lot of "got it on second try" stories about the RSST, for instance. I don't own one of those, but I can say that the Kraken and the Ikarus is a whole lot easier to set up than the Aga. Again... for me. YMMV.
Not to argue, just to share a different perspective: I find it less annoying, messy and tissue paper intensive to set up my Kraken than my KFL. I also much prefer the flavor of the Kraken. Probably because I'm no big fan of either silica, cotton or ekowool. My vote for better product? Very much personal preference: I pick the one with pyrex tank. The one that gives (me) the better flavor. The one that can be refilled without removing it from a mod and without carrying a screwdriver. That doesn't require me to guesstimate my liquid levels. The one I don't have to change wick in twice every week. That would be the Kraken
If there was a perfect atty, we'd all be using it. Until that comes along, we'll all have to weigh up the pros and cons that matter to us.
the genesis design has the highest learning curve, is the hardest to master, but yields astonishing results when done correctly, some are made better then others and some are very fussy as well. as with all things not all styles fit all people, and some juices seem to really shine, while others may seem dull.
the one thing not taken into account by many when trying the geni style for the first time is different models will produce different results, they try one and if it doesnt give them the results they prefer they move on. but many design elements can have a very wide effect on vapor and flavor.
one of the more noticeable elements is size of the wick/wickhole and the inside room of the topcap. you can go through 20 different models and think yea thats ok, but then you may find that one that you think wow thats awesome. and once that happens it becomes clear that not too many other devices can compare.
a side bonus is in some cases the wicks can last well into months with a quick cleaning.
i have tried more then i can count to settle on the couple i use now. the only other device I enjoy as much as my geni's is the Tiafuns, (the squape was pretty nice too)
I agree with the other poster, while i can enjoy a dripper I get some sort of fatigue I guess and grow tired of using them after a while.
every so often a new device comes alone and genesis users shelf their units for a bit, but sooner or later many end up going back as there is just something about the way they vape that you start to miss
here is the most typical genesis style, versions and styling varies but they are all the basic same design,
this is some cheap knockoff but it is very simplistic and has good pictures to show how they all function.
$17.29 Caravela Style Rebuildable Atomizer (2.5mL) - Genesis style tank at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
the one thing not taken into account by many when trying the geni style for the first time is different models will produce different results, they try one and if it doesnt give them the results they prefer they move on. but many design elements can have a very wide effect on vapor and flavor.
one of the more noticeable elements is size of the wick/wickhole and the inside room of the topcap. you can go through 20 different models and think yea thats ok, but then you may find that one that you think wow thats awesome. and once that happens it becomes clear that not too many other devices can compare.
a side bonus is in some cases the wicks can last well into months with a quick cleaning.
i have tried more then i can count to settle on the couple i use now. the only other device I enjoy as much as my geni's is the Tiafuns, (the squape was pretty nice too)
I agree with the other poster, while i can enjoy a dripper I get some sort of fatigue I guess and grow tired of using them after a while.
every so often a new device comes alone and genesis users shelf their units for a bit, but sooner or later many end up going back as there is just something about the way they vape that you start to miss
here is the most typical genesis style, versions and styling varies but they are all the basic same design,
this is some cheap knockoff but it is very simplistic and has good pictures to show how they all function.
$17.29 Caravela Style Rebuildable Atomizer (2.5mL) - Genesis style tank at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
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i have to say V A did a bang up job on the kraken what a bad a** little atty.thick clouds and gooey rich flavor.There are varying degrees of difficulty in setting up various gennies. I started with an Aga T2. It was a PITA, and can still be. Other atties can be a lot easier. I've read a lot of "got it on second try" stories about the RSST, for instance. I don't own one of those, but I can say that the Kraken and the Ikarus is a whole lot easier to set up than the Aga. Again... for me. YMMV.
Not to argue, just to share a different perspective: I find it less annoying, messy and tissue paper intensive to set up my Kraken than my KFL. I also much prefer the flavor of the Kraken. Probably because I'm no big fan of either silica, cotton or ekowool. My vote for better product? Very much personal preference: I pick the one with pyrex tank. The one that gives (me) the better flavor. The one that can be refilled without removing it from a mod and without carrying a screwdriver. That doesn't require me to guesstimate my liquid levels. The one I don't have to change wick in twice every week. That would be the Kraken
If there was a perfect atty, we'd all be using it. Until that comes along, we'll all have to weigh up the pros and cons that matter to us.
Sucks you had a bad experience. But on the other hand, I bought an RSST at a B&M and was vaping on it about an hour later including drilling out the air hole.
2 weeks later, I can wrap a mesh coil in about 5 minutes. I actually wrapped a new one last night. But then I decided I wanted to go from 30g to 28g. The wife and I were watching TV so when she got up to go the bathroom I wrapped a new coil on the existing wick. That took literally 30 seconds.
I don't have any experience with other gennys, but the RSST is a cinch and offers an amazing vape.
The Smoktech R-Tank draws air up the middle tube. There are at least a couple of other inexpensive ones that have done it this way.
I think they actually work better than the side draw through the cap. The coil is directly in line and just above the air inlet. They are less finicky.
The center air tube design is under-explored by the manufacturers.
First takes a wile to get the build the way you want it. Second my son, the engineer, say to get better wicking his fluids class says to make the center hole in the wick no bigger than a 18 ga needle. Have both types & the smaller hole does wick better for me using any liquid. Even 100% VG.
Only draw back is the atty must be kept upright to prevent leaking.
Hope this helps & will probably draw some comments,
Later,
louis
Only draw back is the atty must be kept upright to prevent leaking.
Hope this helps & will probably draw some comments,
Later,
louis
the r tank is considered a VIVI rebuildable using soft wicks. not the same at all.
even the better top coil versions of rebuildables based on designs like the R tank have side airholes. it just works better and less problems with airflow on the different mods, not all mods and apv's allow a good airflow from the 510, if they worked like it supped to it would be more popular as this type of tank is over a year old now.
and cannot perform on the same par as bottom feed/vacuum tanks like the kayfuns foggers and squapes.
topshelf version.
even the better top coil versions of rebuildables based on designs like the R tank have side airholes. it just works better and less problems with airflow on the different mods, not all mods and apv's allow a good airflow from the 510, if they worked like it supped to it would be more popular as this type of tank is over a year old now.
and cannot perform on the same par as bottom feed/vacuum tanks like the kayfuns foggers and squapes.
topshelf version.
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I guess I'm a purist; but to me, it's not a genesis if you're not using a mesh wick. I'm not saying it won't work well, if you use silica, cotton, or whatever, in a device designed as a genesis. It may work great. But it's not a genny, IMO.
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