Good battery?

[Baditude]

Thrasher" data-source="post: 11086438" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Orbtronics as well as RTD carry the b in a protected version as well, and seeing how your not going high power it should work also.

Orbtronic now has a disclaimer not to use protected batteries in mods:

"Protected Li-ion 18650 batteries are made for high performance flashlights, not for e-cig mods."
"Important - Electronic cigarette owners: Powerful high drain 18650 battery cells made for e-cig mods you can order here from Orbtronic.com"

3400mAh Protected Panasonic 18650 battery cell by Orbtronic

 

[Scarey]

Orbtronic now has a disclaimer not to use protected batteries in mods:

"Protected Li-ion 18650 batteries are made for high performance flashlights, not for e-cig mods."
"Important - Electronic cigarette owners: Powerful high drain 18650 battery cells made for e-cig mods you can order here from Orbtronic.com"

3400mAh Protected Panasonic 18650 battery cell by Orbtronic

That is great. It's nice to see a direct recommendation from a battery manufacturer on which of their products to buy for APV's.

 

[PapaGeno21]

So what happens if you use an unprotected battery without a kick?

Will you just kill it by over discharging it?

How many people use a kick? This is what I'm confused about as the way people talk about it is like "if you are going to use a kick" which means some don't... So how do they safely use their batts without discharging them too much?

 

[Scarey]

So what happens if you use an unprotected battery without a kick?

Will you just kill it by over discharging it?

How many people use a kick? This is what I'm confused about as the way people talk about it is like "if you are going to use a kick" which means some don't... So how do they safely use their batts without discharging them too much?

Let's make this distinction one more time here. For the purpose of this discussion there are 3 kinds of batteries we're talking about:

Lithium Ion (Li-Ion) : Not safe to use

Protected Lithium Ion(Protected Li-Ion) Safer than unprotected, but not really that great an option.

High Drain: (IMR: Li-Mn, Lithium Manganese) These batteries are not the same thing as a Li-Ion. They are not protected, because they are chemically stable at higher drain limits. They do not need protection.

When you say "unprotected," we assume the first type, the dangerous one. Never use the first type. If over discharge or surpass their capaicty, they could fail catastrophically.

When you say "protected," we think the second type. They are the same thing as the first, but with a microchip that may or may not stop you from causing a catastrophic failure.

The third type, High Drain, as long as you don't push too much power through them, you won't have a problem. Just charge them at around 3.5V.

A kick is a small chip module that you put in a mech, at the end of the battery, that gives your mod variable wattage, and in the case of the kick2 by evolv, a safety fuse, that prevents both excessive stress, and over discharge.

How do you safely use a battery without over discharging? You need a multimeter. You use it to check the voltage on your battery, so you know when it''s time to charge it. You also use it to test the ohms of your coil.

When you know the ohms of your coil, you put them and the voltage, 4.2V, in the proper fields on Ohm's Law Calculator , and hit calulate. After it calculates, look at the Current (I), measured in amps. If that number is below 10, you should be okay, when using a high drain 18650. If you use 18350's that number should be under 6.

 

[PapaGeno21]

Thank you very much, I didn't think about just using my DMM.

And when I said unprotected I was actually talking about the red wrapped IMR types.

So yeah, looks like a kick is a good idea just for peace of mind.

 

[Kemosabe]

This would also be a great battery and soon out of stock for good!

AW IMR18650 1600mAh LiMN rechargeable lithium battery

If you're going to buy a kick just spend a few extra bucks and buy the original:

Your Online Electronic Cigarette Store Kick v1

Your Online Electronic Cigarette Store - Kick v2

wait, what? why are the AW 18650 1600mAh batts going OOS for good? that bums me out.

 

[Kemosabe]

Thank you very much, I didn't think about just using my DMM.

And when I said unprotected I was actually talking about the red wrapped IMR types.

So yeah, looks like a kick is a good idea just for peace of mind.

PapaGeno, nice to see another fellow Rhode Islander. my recommendation is to go for AW batteries. ive been very pleased with mine. also, ive got the sigelei kick, evolv kick, and evolv kick2 if youd like to try any of them before you buy to see if its for you. judging from your comments, i believe you'd enjoy having a power module in your mech.

 

[Thrasher]

Ok several things kind of off fact here. imr is not the only safer battery, many of the batteries we use are in fact, hybrid chemistry just like imr is. how safe the chemistry is is up for debate.

It is ICR batteries we need to worry about, they are usually not high drain and not a safe chemistry.

there are no "protected" batteries without electronic protection..
The recommendation to not use protected batteries goes back to why we need to use high drain batteries in a regulated mod - the mod may actually need more amperage then a protected battery can supply without tripping the fuse. in the end constant tripping may damage the mod, the cell or the electronics of the protection, leaving an unsafe condition. the protection is a last resort failsafe, not a reminder to lower your power draw.

there is not one mod maker regulated or mechanical who recommends using protected batteries, it is suggested if you want protection use a fuse designed for vaping but never do they suggest using protected cells. so orbronic is taking the initiative and protecting themselves from possible future issues. on average most mech users go for low if not sub ohm resistances and protection circuits are not designed with this type of constant draw in mind.

as for the Kick confusion the kick is simply to turn a mechanical into a regulated mod, nothing more, it does have the same set of features found in other regulated mods - low voltage, over current etc but these are just added features ,not the actual intended usage.

long before the kick it is and is still up to a mech user to understand when the battery is dying and needs to be charged as well as not draining it too far and knowing and understanding what to look for when there is a problem with a short.

this confusion is still why I think too many people are jumping in the mech game without understanding what they are getting into and not realizing it is not a care free device like a vamo, it requires more attention to details and a better understanding of all the variables. "too many times people come on and say oh mech mods are easy just drop a battery in and go, i dont understand why others say it is not for beginners" Because if you truly dont understand all the things you need to watch and all the variables there is a serious chance of something possibly going wrong down the road.

mech mods are not learning devices, they need to be understood "before" you begin to experiment with them, so far people have been lucky, people dont check the batteries they use, dont know what resistance their coils are at etc, and nothing has happened, giving a false sense of security to others to try the same things, but all it will take is that one bad coil and the one bad battery to change someones face forever.

 

[Krizzell]

Check this out : The Sony continues to leave a pile of dead batteries in its wake. R.I.P. MNKESun-Vapers.com Get non protected batteries some protected ones will not fit the tube.

 

[PapaGeno21]

Ok several things kind of off fact here. imr is not the only safer battery, many of the batteries we use are in fact, hybrid chemistry just like imr is. how safe the chemistry is is up for debate.

It is ICR batteries we need to worry about, they are usually not high drain and not a safe chemistry.

there are no "protected" batteries without electronic protection..
The recommendation to not use protected batteries goes back to why we need to use high drain batteries in a regulated mod - the mod may actually need more amperage then a protected battery can supply without tripping the fuse. in the end constant tripping may damage the mod, the cell or the electronics of the protection, leaving an unsafe condition. the protection is a last resort failsafe, not a reminder to lower your power draw.

there is not one mod maker regulated or mechanical who recommends using protected batteries, it is suggested if you want protection use a fuse designed for vaping but never do they suggest using protected cells. so orbronic is taking the initiative and protecting themselves from possible future issues. on average most mech users go for low if not sub ohm resistances and protection circuits are not designed with this type of constant draw in mind.

as for the Kick confusion the kick is simply to turn a mechanical into a regulated mod, nothing more, it does have the same set of features found in other regulated mods - low voltage, over current etc but these are just added features ,not the actual intended usage.

long before the kick it is and is still up to a mech user to understand when the battery is dying and needs to be charged as well as not draining it too far and knowing and understanding what to look for when there is a problem with a short.

this confusion is still why I think too many people are jumping in the mech game without understanding what they are getting into and not realizing it is not a care free device like a vamo, it requires more attention to details and a better understanding of all the variables. "too many times people come on and say oh mech mods are easy just drop a battery in and go, i dont understand why others say it is not for beginners" Because if you truly dont understand all the things you need to watch and all the variables there is a serious chance of something possibly going wrong down the road.

mech mods are not learning devices, they need to be understood "before" you begin to experiment with them, so far people have been lucky, people dont check the batteries they use, dont know what resistance their coils are at etc, and nothing has happened, giving a false sense of security to others to try the same things, but all it will take is that one bad coil and the one bad battery to change someones face forever.

This is very good advice and information.

End result is I did not realize mech mods were literally as primitive as having to check the battery with a dmm. Granted getting to know your gear would have you not doing that every few draws vs you know you can last the day and just charge when you get home.

Thanks for all the information guys. If I do this I'll get a kick, and do it up right.

 

[Scarey]

Ok several things kind of off fact here. imr is not the only safer battery, many of the batteries we use are in fact, hybrid chemistry just like imr is. how safe the chemistry is is up for debate.

It is ICR batteries we need to worry about, they are usually not high drain and not a safe chemistry.

there are no "protected" batteries without electronic protection..
The recommendation to not use protected batteries goes back to why we need to use high drain batteries in a regulated mod - the mod may actually need more amperage then a protected battery can supply without tripping the fuse. in the end constant tripping may damage the mod, the cell or the electronics of the protection, leaving an unsafe condition. the protection is a last resort failsafe, not a reminder to lower your power draw.

there is not one mod maker regulated or mechanical who recommends using protected batteries, it is suggested if you want protection use a fuse designed for vaping but never do they suggest using protected cells. so orbronic is taking the initiative and protecting themselves from possible future issues. on average most mech users go for low if not sub ohm resistances and protection circuits are not designed with this type of constant draw in mind.

as for the Kick confusion the kick is simply to turn a mechanical into a regulated mod, nothing more, it does have the same set of features found in other regulated mods - low voltage, over current etc but these are just added features ,not the actual intended usage.

long before the kick it is and is still up to a mech user to understand when the battery is dying and needs to be charged as well as not draining it too far and knowing and understanding what to look for when there is a problem with a short.

this confusion is still why I think too many people are jumping in the mech game without understanding what they are getting into and not realizing it is not a care free device like a vamo, it requires more attention to details and a better understanding of all the variables. "too many times people come on and say oh mech mods are easy just drop a battery in and go, i dont understand why others say it is not for beginners" Because if you truly dont understand all the things you need to watch and all the variables there is a serious chance of something possibly going wrong down the road.

mech mods are not learning devices, they need to be understood "before" you begin to experiment with them, so far people have been lucky, people dont check the batteries they use, dont know what resistance their coils are at etc, and nothing has happened, giving a false sense of security to others to try the same things, but all it will take is that one bad coil and the one bad battery to change someones face forever.

Thanks for adding that. I didn't want to go too far with my last explanation, without making sure the basics were well understood. It can be pretty easy to load too much onto someone before making sure that the foundation is being absorbed, and send them off more confused than before. The last thing we need to do is send someone out confused.

 

[PapaGeno21]

After doing more reading, I stumbled across this battery. It looks to be a good candidate for a mech mod with a kick? I have no plans for a regular vv/vw mod like a provari or similar, I have my MVP 2.0 for that. I just LOVE the look of the Nemesis.

CGR18650CH Panasonic 18650 Li-Mn-Li-ion CGR18650CH High Drain 10A Rechargeable IMR Hybrid Battery Cell

On that page they recommend the Nitrcore I2 charger. But I like the look of the Xtar VP1 charger more. Is the Nitecore better than the Xtar?

 

[Scarey]

That's a decent battery, with a 10 amp limit. A lot of people like Xstars and the Nitecore i2/i4. The main difference is price. This store on Amazon Marketplace has the Nitecore i2 and i4 for $15 and $19 respectively, with free shipping. http://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.htm...C7V8KB&rh=p_4:Nitecore&ie=UTF8&qid=1380752877

 

[DillPickles666]

Gotta love them orbtronic pd2900!
Not specifically great for SLR coils, but it will make a kayfun/ithaka hit for a good 6+\- hours before I switch to the next

 

[DillPickles666]

That's a decent battery, with a 10 amp limit. A lot of people like Xstars and the Nitecore i2/i4. The main difference is price. This store on Amazon Marketplace has the Nitecore i2 and i4 for $15 and $19 respectively, with free shipping. http://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.htm...C7V8KB&rh=p_4:Nitecore&ie=UTF8&qid=1380752877

Check out www.illuminationsupply.com
They have nitecore i2 and i4 for less that $15! And free shipping

 

[Scarey]

Check out www.illuminationsupply.com
They have nitecore i2 and i4 for less that $15! And free shipping

Very nice. Might have to upgrade to an i4.

 

[Baditude]

After doing more reading, I stumbled across this battery. It looks to be a good candidate for a mech mod with a kick? I have no plans for a regular vv/vw mod like a provari or similar, I have my MVP 2.0 for that. I just LOVE the look of the Nemesis.

CGR18650CH Panasonic 18650 Li-Mn-Li-ion CGR18650CH High Drain 10A Rechargeable IMR Hybrid Battery Cell

On that page they recommend the Nitrcore I2 charger. But I like the look of the Xtar VP1 charger more. Is the Nitecore better than the Xtar?

That's a good choice in an IMR/hybrid battery for using a Kick.

The Xtar VP1 is one of the top two rated battery chargers for the batteries we use in mods, the other being the Pila. If you can afford one or the other, it will be a better choice than any other charger. The VP1 has a real-time charger indicator on its LCD screen so that you can monitor charging status progress with accuracy. It also uses multiple-stage charging algorhythms that are more sophisticated than the cheaper chargers which will be kinder to your batteries and likely allow them to last longer in life.

Battery chargers at RTD Vapor

 

[PapaGeno21]

Well I have found the Xtar VP1 as low as 40 shipped on ebay. I really really like that charger. Anything wrong with it that everyone gets the Nitecore or is it just because of the price?

 

[Scarey]

Nope. It really is better than a Nitecore, it just costs more than twice as much.

 

[Baditude]

The Xtar is unquestionably the better charger, it just costs quite a bit more than the Nitecore chargers. There is also value in getting the 4 bay Nitecore i4 charger if you have several batteries that you use in rotation and don't charge them on a daily basis.