Got pulled over last night with e-cig

Status
Not open for further replies.

vip0802

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 26, 2010
311
16
45
Maryland
i'm sorry you had to go through all that harassment Grinch! my BF's father and a few friends of mine are county officers, and even though i think they're great (biased i know), there's always going to be some bad apples in the bunch that ruin it for the good ones.

i will say that there are some personal "herbal" vaporizers that look very much like box mods out there, so even though it doesn't excuse your officer's behavior, it wouldn't surprise me if a cop seemed suspicious.

which is why i like CaptJay's suggestions about sending the chief some e-cig info so other officers can be informed about the differences between the two. i also 2nd carrying a few business card around since they've come in handy to people who've asked me about my devices.
 

NCChief

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 6, 2009
180
6
55
Western NC
Grinch's Officer didn't have to be a d-bag, but I can understand his ignorance. I am a Officer and the first LEO Vaper in our area. I can't tell you how many jurisdictions I have educated on e-cigs and have converted several other Officers. Once they know what it is, most think it is cool as hell and like it. I mess with them and switch from a regular 510 to a Protege, to a Bartleby to a GG. It's funny to see their expressions. :D

Education is key... Grinch handled this well...

NCC
 

Shai

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 23, 2010
114
0
Earth
Just remember, consent overrides all of that; if you give the officer consent, he no longer needs any probable cause to search.

A point I'd like to note about this statement. It is true. But also, one does not need to give explicit consent to allow an officer of the law to search your car. The person does have to explicitly >not< consent to a search.

Example, a police officer indicates a desire or proceeds to search the car without asking. The occupant does not explicitly state that he does not want the car searched. So, the officer, by default, has consent to search.

But this is all academic because they can always order up a K9 unit. When the dog starts humping your leg the officers will say the dog indicated contraband and now they have probable cause.

However, I would say that even if you have nothing to hide, never consent to a search explicitly or by allowing the office to proceed without notifying him you wish to observe your right to refuse an unlawful search. Just don't do it.

The reason I say never consent is two fold. If you don't have anything to hide and the officer plans to plant contraband, which lets face it, it happens, then if you do not consent to the search you at the least have a defense that the officer never established probable cause. If you do have something to hide and the officer never established probable cause, that is your only possible defense.

It's idealistic to believe that if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry about. Cops, like every other profession have honest people and dishonest people, good days and bad. Never give an officer an easy in to placing you in a non-defensible position. Once you give up your rights you are at their mercy.

Cops are used to getting what they want. Just be prepared to deal with a lot of grief when you observe your rights guaranteed to you by your Federal and State Constitutions.

Youtube has some videos on this very subject that were produced by lawyers.
 
Last edited:

TexasRain104

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
May 1, 2010
186
1
The State of Texas, USA
My suggestion to anyone with questions about consent is to contact a LAWYER! Do not under any circumstances take any information given to you over the forums/internet/youtube as anything but an OPINION!

Im a lawman in TX and my advice for those that are worried about being searched is to get legal advice from a certified attorney that you can prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, is an attorney of the courts and NOT youtube.
 

cerver7

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 18, 2010
1,811
1,216
Shamong NJ
Was vaping my 510 in my car in the parking lot outside my work at night. Parked in the car, radio on. Cop pulls up behind me, two cops get out. They ask me for my license and they say they saw me "smoking" my device. The cop asks me what it is and I tell him it's an electronic cigarette. He's like, "oh, so you put **** in here right?" And I'm like, no, it's nicotine, I'm using it to quit smoking. And he's like "sure buddy. You're addicted to drugs, if you really wanted to quit you'd just get the patch." Then he used this as an excuse to search my bag in the car, in which he found my PCC and e-liquid. He held up the brown bottle of liquid and asked "what is this?" And I told him that it says Kahlua and Cream on it, it's obviously a flavor for the e-cigarette. Then he asks me how to open up the PCC and says "I bet your stash is in here."

So basically after being harassed for 20 minutes they let me go with nothing, not even a ticket.

its always great at the end of a cop situation, that they let you go and feel like complete .....$$e$ for it once they leave. noobs @ life some cops are.
 

whiskey

Moved On
Jan 13, 2010
21,843
36,854
I apologize in advance for being a bit :offtopic:, but thats a rather beautiful (and HUGE) Mastiff you have there. :2cool: I grew up with Great Danes! I now have tiny dogs and miss having a Marmaduke-ish buddy around....

Now, back to the regularly scheduled program.....
:pop::pop::pop::pop:

Heres my baby...passed away...he was a sweet heart!!!:(
 

sailorman

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jun 5, 2010
4,305
2,840
Podunk, FLA
My suggestion to anyone with questions about consent is to contact a LAWYER! Do not under any circumstances take any information given to you over the forums/internet/youtube as anything but an OPINION!

Im a lawman in TX and my advice for those that are worried about being searched is to get legal advice from a certified attorney that you can prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, is an attorney of the courts and NOT youtube.

There are two multi-part videos on Youtube that address this situation. One, entitled IIRC "Busted" and is by the ACLU which, I'm pretty sure, is comprised of authentic attorneys. It should be required viewing for everyone, particularly young people who's ignorance of the law is constantly exploited by LEO.

The other is quite entertaining and is entitled something like "never speak to the police" (without a lawyer). It was made by a fairly prominent attorney and law professor whose name escapes me. It was recorded during a lecture to law students and features a cameo appearance by a genuine cop who fesses up to using the tactics that had been discussed. These interrogation tactics were specifically designed to elicit evidence of guilt from a suspect without regard to the actual guilt of innocence of said suspect. Even perfectly innocent suspects can, and do, make statements that are admissible as evidence of guilt when questioned in the way demonstrated in this lecture.

Like a previous poster said, both videos say pretty much the same thing as has been stated here. Basically, do not EVER consent to a search under any circumstances. If you feel uncomfortable refusing a search, tell them a little white lie. I have told them that my daughter is a lawyer and she said she'd kill me if I ever consented to a vehicle search, so I promised her I wouldn't. That not only makes him go away, it puts him on notice that I just might know my rights without my having to explicitly say it, (cops just HATE that and will mark you for retaliation more times than not.) BTW, my daughter is a lawyer,just not the type the cop would assume by that statement.

If a cop has a right to search, he will search without asking consent, or at the very least, he will search despite your protestations. The only time a cop asks for consent is when he knows he has no legal ground to search without it. He's not there to "cut you a break" for your cooperation. He doesn't ask just to be polite. In short, despite what he may try to make you think, he is NOT your friend.

Especially, never consent to a search after he has issued a citation. This is the oldest trick in the book. He gives you a warning or ticket and you think you're on you're free to leave (which, in fact, you ARE and you should affirm it immediately). Then, while returning to his car and as if it's a passing thought, he asks in a friendly way, "by the way, you wouldn't have anything illegal would you? Any drugs or guns or anything?"

You say, "of course not, officer".

He says, "Well then, you wouldn't mind if I just took a quick look, would you?".

You say,.....If you're smart, you say, "I don't have time and as I'm free to leave now, I bid you a good day".

Then, you leave immediately. Don't forget to buckle up and use your turn signal when you re-enter traffic.

The cop goes back to his car mumbling about losing out on another fishing expedition.

Some states' Troopers are notorious for this tactic and many became enraged and tried to take legal action when a particular Texas lawyer bought billboards on the highway emblazoned with "Just say no to illegal searches" and provided a toll free number with a recording that explained this sleazy LEO tactic.
 

coralie

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 18, 2009
191
0
USA, Chicago area
I've seen those videos too, and was shocked. It goes against my innate tendency to refuse compliance with an authority figure, but the reality is the reality. I think if pulled over or questioned while using an ecig, the best thing is to explain calmly what it is and have vendor cards and info on you just in case. It's not illegal to have or use. It's just not as well known.

If a cop pulls me over for using it because he thinks it's for something else, I realize he's probably just doing his job. He has a short amount of time to decide whether I'm doing something illegal or not, and it's his job to investigate. I can handle that. But if there's no smell, or not the expected smell, that should tell him that it's not what he thought it was and that should be the end of it.
 

sailorman

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jun 5, 2010
4,305
2,840
Podunk, FLA
I've seen those videos too, and was shocked. It goes against my innate tendency to refuse compliance with an authority figure, but the reality is the reality. I think if pulled over or questioned while using an ecig, the best thing is to explain calmly what it is and have vendor cards and info on you just in case. It's not illegal to have or use. It's just not as well known.

If a cop pulls me over for using it because he thinks it's for something else, I realize he's probably just doing his job. He has a short amount of time to decide whether I'm doing something illegal or not, and it's his job to investigate. I can handle that. But if there's no smell, or not the expected smell, that should tell him that it's not what he thought it was and that should be the end of it.

I'm not so sure that a cop's ignorance is, or at least should be, a valid reason to stop and investigate someone. If your ecig looked like a .... or a joint or a weapon or some known kind of paraphernalia, that's one thing. But I don't like the idea of being subject to their intrusion based solely on the fact that they don't know what I'm doing and it maybe, might be, just could be, something illegal. If they don't know what I'm doing, or at least have a good idea of what I'm doing, who the hell are they to presume I'm breaking the law? If I was drinking out of an opaque cup while I was driving, would they be justified in stopping me to investigate because it could be a cocktail? Must all drinking cups or cans be labeled to avoid being pulled over for DWD?

Once they're informed, you are right, it should be the end of it. But, too often it's not. It's an entre' that, depending on the prejudices or mood of a particular cop, provides an excuse to coerce or trick you into a search. I have known cops that felt it was a personal failure if they stopped anyone under the age of 30 (particularly males and minorities) and let them go without doing a search. They treated it like a game and kept score.

I guess I'm just not a compliant type and authority figures don't impress me unless they've gained their authority through merit. A few months in an academy and a shiny badge, or even a gun doesn't necessarily cut it. Mostly though, I've seen too many cops who exploit their positions and push the limits. Cops who cannot stand the idea of issuing a citation without shooting for a fishing trip. Cops who testi-lie, abuse, profile and harrass. I have reason for my cynicism. I was a bail bondsman years ago and dealt with cops all the time. I can say from experience that there is not one single power LEO has ever been given that hasn't been routinely wrongly exploited and abused. I have no reason to believe they've evolved in the last 25 years or so. In fact, the simultaneous lionization (kids who grew up on shows like "Cops") and militarization of the police has only made things worse. Toto, we aren't in Mayberry anymore.

It's too bad that the "bad apples" spoiled my opinion of LEOs for the rest, but there are far too many "bad apples" and the others are too quick to protect them out of misplaced loyalty. So, I'm not going to play instant psychologist on the roadside and try to figure out if this is a good cop or a bad cop I'm dealing with at any given time. The odds are stacked too high against me, given the potential consequences. I figure the smart thing to do is to err on the side of caution and assume the worst from them all, just like they do to average Joe Citizen. I'll give them just enough cooperation to deprive them of a legal justification for an arrest, but not a whit more. To any cops who are offended by that, I would say; Lie down with dogs and you get up with fleas. When you tear down that blue wall of silence and quit acting like the whole world is scum except you, maybe you'll get some respect. Until then, all you'll get from me is finely measured contempt.
 

sailorman

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jun 5, 2010
4,305
2,840
Podunk, FLA
The busted video deals with multiple situations and was made a few years ago. Everyone knows that since 9/11that "quaint old piece of paper" known as the Constitution, has been been riddled with more holes than a Shanghai brothel. And in certain jurisdictions, it is entirely meaningless and asserting your rights will result in a broken head or worse. So, the disclaimer is clearly CYA on the part of the ACLU, who are after all, lawyers. It is always a good idea to speak to a lawyer now and then, just to find out whether you are living in an area where the lawmen have any respect whatsoever for the Constitution, and to periodically find out what rights you have recently lost.

Here's a link to the other video:
YouTube - Dont Talk to Police
 

Haytoni

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jan 20, 2010
400
5
N.W. Florida
This could be regarded as off-topic, but after DaveP's post (he may even rec'v the channel I was watching), here goes ...

Just yesterday I saw an e-cig commercial on TV (Atlanta, GA). At first I just sat there in amazement. IN fact, the entire 60 seconds the commercial lasted had me sitting, staring, jaw agape.

It was not at all obvious to me that what was actually being advertised was a no-nicotine e-cig, the EZSmoker. It wasn't 'til I went to their website (ezsmoker.com) that I realized this was a zero nicotine product.

It's also one of those traps where they send you cartridges every month and charge your credit card ...

Sorry to go off-topic, but at least one e-cig is advertised on TV ...
Would appreciate an E-Cig commercial ....instead of that stupid Progressive Insurance Ad. Here where I live, that Insurance add is run non stop, in some cases longer than the program.
 

Scucci

Full Member
Jul 17, 2010
45
0
Nashville, TN
A point I'd like to note about this statement. It is true. But also, one does not need to give explicit consent to allow an officer of the law to search your car. The person does have to explicitly >not< consent to a search.

We had to do this in the military when we were pulled over my the MA's (Navy). The first words out of anyone's mouths when they came up to the windows were "no statements, no waivers".

I've taken that with me and any time I get pulled over for anything, that's the first thing I say. Those 4 words make it clear to the officer that you're aware of your rights and intend to use them.

As far as those Youtube videos... they're pretty much spot on. Don't say ANYTHING to the cops, and if you are asked to get out of the car, lock it behind you. The cops require cause to search the vehicle, and these days if you're pretty much not getting out of the car smoking a blunt or chugging a beer... they'll usually not press the subject. Of course it's always your word vs. their's, but you are allowed to record anything in this state... get out the camera (cell phone will work) and start recording the whole thing. If they ask you to stop... just keep recording (local and state laws may or may not be on your side with this one, read up first).

I've been involved in some pretty shady dealings with the cops here (Metro Nashville), and I don't trust any of their fat asses as far as I could through them. Complete corrupt and beyond useless.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread