Hammer Clone

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Kemosabe

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Not to mention it's that time of year. When China grinds to a halt and nothing happens for almost a month. Happy Chinese New Year :)

very accurate point.

i think i *might* have gotten in under the wire with my most recent FT purchase. i decided to get the chi you flat 510 cap to use on my hammer.

although the stock hammer 510 showed 0.00v drop without load, under load it was a different story (which i dont understand how is possible). the same atty threaded onto my chi you for example would hit much better than it did on my hammer. i understand voltage drop under load will exist, but the amount of v drop on the hammer was more (seemlingly, didnt run the tests) than on my other mods.

up until now ive just been using the AIOS on the hammer with great results. but sooner or later im going to want to pop another type of atty on there, perhaps something with the new 50mm drip tip :)

https://www.fasttech.com/p/1547702#
 

The.Drifter

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I almost always run my Hammer in this configuration too. Your looks awesome in this config :)

Heres my Hammer setup, usually with a Steam Turbine clone minus the tank protector sleeve.

440sks0fisb7bzh6g.jpg


:vapor:
 

checkz

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Nov 4, 2011
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Hey guys, I'm at the end of my rope.

If anyone has the Hcigar version of the hammer and can tell me the thread count of the screw, length, post diameter and head diameter I would be a very happy boy. If you dont have a thread tester your local hardware store or machine shop should be able to tell.

I have literally been hiking all over Philadelphia the past two days trying to get this sorted.

I have been to a few local ecig stores, fastener shops and hardware stores and nobody can help me unless they "have the screw" I think it's around 4-48 but I'm not 100% sure. I really dont want to buy a new hammer after only having this one for a week.

Thanks so much.
 

muzichead

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Hey guys, I'm at the end of my rope.

If anyone has the Hcigar version of the hammer and can tell me the thread count of the screw, length, post diameter and head diameter I would be a very happy boy. If you dont have a thread tester your local hardware store or machine shop should be able to tell.

I have literally been hiking all over Philadelphia the past two days trying to get this sorted.

I have been to a few local ecig stores, fastener shops and hardware stores and nobody can help me unless they "have the screw" I think it's around 4-48 but I'm not 100% sure. I really dont want to buy a new hammer after only having this one for a week.

Thanks so much.

I would tend to doubt its an american size thread since its made in China. Everything else that comes out of there is metric threaded on all APV's and rebuildables. I would look at possibly a 3m x .5m. That would be the closest to a 4-48 thread.
 
I almost always run my Hammer in this configuration too. Your looks awesome in this config :)

Heres my Hammer setup, usually with a Steam Turbine clone minus the tank protector sleeve.

:vapor:

This configuration solves a couple things for me. One is that the other way requires a flathead 18350, and you can't kick it. This way I can kick it with a 18490, and use any battery in the drawer unkicked.

20140126_175255.jpg
 

CanIPlayWithMadness

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my question is this:

you hear so many people talking about these designers loosing all this money because these guys are making duplicate clones of the originals.

is it just possible that its all a big game?

is it possible that maybe these so-called "designers" are in league with the people who "clone" these devices?

now follow me on this.
designer makes this awesome looking device/tak/ect/ect/ect and slaps it out there for say $275 bucks ( that actually probably only costs him $10 bucks in parts to make)

now the average vaping joe whos not independently wealthy who works his 40+ hour week, pays his bills,ect cant afford to slap $275 on the table to buy something that pretty much equates to a "luxury" item.

so the original designer gets with his brother in laws cousins uncles best friends sisters neighbor and says "hey man, tell you what, heres the plans to such and such. i designed it and prototyped it and made a few and i was gonna sell them for $275 apiece, but their not selling. now, if you can produce these as a 1:1 "clone" of my original design for say,$3 bucks apiece in quantity, we can sell them in the $50 range and make ooodles of money"

now vaping joe sees the "clone" at $50 bucks apiece, and guess what, it just came into his price range and is no longer a high dollar "luxury" item. at this point hes thinking "hell, $50? i can hide that from the wife, and ill tell her that vaping steve at work traded me another mod for it or something"

ive seen alot of original devices, and alot of clones. alot of the time, the clones are virtually identical to the original, same materials, same quality ( or in some cases, the clones BETTER quality than the original designed device) so why WOULDNT you buy the clone, especially if its a 1:1 copy??...alot of the clones are identical in pretty much every way, close enough that 99% of the time, a person wouldnt know the difference.

for instance my bro has an original vicious ant kraken tank he paid like $250 bucks for, ive got a clone i purchased on ebay. we have sat them side by side and examined them one end t the other, and they are literally virtually IDENTICAL in every way, down to the serial number etching , all the lettering,ect,ect. identical.

doesnt that make you wonder if what i mentioned earlier is whats happening, or does it make you wonder why these so-called "designers" are charging so damn much when an identical repop can be done for virtually a miniscule fraction of the original price? maybe the original is just fancy high $$ advertising for the 'clone" thats soon to come?

so before hacking the hell out of these so called counterfeiters you might take the time to ask yourself those questions, and if they were literally doing this ..... without permission, why aren't there billions of dollars worth of lawsuits,ect going on constantly and why are they still able to sell the clones of the originals? cant tell me its because other countries dont have this law or that law cause i know for a fact that in china you are able to sue for stuff like this (a bros father who lives there did and won a bundle on an invention of his) , and even do so internationally....


if you had two identical devices sitting side by side at the same shop, one an original for $275 bucks and a 1:1 copy OF THE original for $25, they both look identical, operate identically,ect. which would you buy?

Dude, that's a good point. It's like the department stores who offer unbelievable sales like 50% off. The consumer goes :ohmy::ohmy::ohmy: I'm saving such and such bucks!!! And they go out and buy it even though it's not really at a discount after all. It's just made to look that way.
 

gwelker

Full Member
Dec 17, 2013
31
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Los Angeles
my question is this:

you hear so many people talking about these designers loosing all this money because these guys are making duplicate clones of the originals.

is it just possible that its all a big game?

is it possible that maybe these so-called "designers" are in league with the people who "clone" these devices?

now follow me on this.
designer makes this awesome looking device/tak/ect/ect/ect and slaps it out there for say $275 bucks ( that actually probably only costs him $10 bucks in parts to make)

now the average vaping joe whos not independently wealthy who works his 40+ hour week, pays his bills,ect cant afford to slap $275 on the table to buy something that pretty much equates to a "luxury" item.

so the original designer gets with his brother in laws cousins uncles best friends sisters neighbor and says "hey man, tell you what, heres the plans to such and such. i designed it and prototyped it and made a few and i was gonna sell them for $275 apiece, but their not selling. now, if you can produce these as a 1:1 "clone" of my original design for say,$3 bucks apiece in quantity, we can sell them in the $50 range and make ooodles of money"

...snip...

I think original mech mods or any kind of original designs are just that. The designers probably generally riff on designs they are improving deriving from, and adding in some cases that oh so important twist of style and functionality that's unique to them. It's like buying some original art (believe or not, stay with me). They are expensive, they are limited, they are ORIGINALS that usually were overseen or even created by the actual hand of the designer. That's just the way artisan products are, limited lots, expensive and cutting edge on style and functionality.

Big companies copying designs are focused on driving the cost and quality down, getting it out quickly, and getting some piece of the market for clone mods.

Usually, with original designs/art etc. it's copyrighted as a kind of protection, so at least anyone (say the designer's brother?) has to have permission to clone it, and can't sell it for profit without giving something back to the original designer. Offshore producers of clones don't give a rip about design owners, or anything but profit. They drive the price down, and yeah, those of us that can't afford the originals (which we'd buy if we could right? If there were enough of them?) get a shot at trying a copy of the original at a much cheaper price. The original designer doesn't get squat usually.

Seems like they lose in that case (definitely), and that the offshore clone manufacturer wins big, copy designs, push into production, as long as you cheapen it up without making it unusable, you get $$ for your investment in manufacturing setup.

We the poor unwashed masses that can't afford the original mods, have a so so win I think, we get the chance to have usually what amounts to be an always poorer quality copy, for an ALWAYS lower cost so we can experience second hand the killer coolness of the original designs.

The downside of ripped off designs being mass(?) produced, is that the original designers don't get their piece of the action (almost always) so unless they're getting the profit from the original limited runs, can just wash their hands and not produce any more designs, then we all lose. Now, they do get something from the cloners, they get more exposure (free advertising?) so that their original designs are better known, and new originals get more press/exposure and can go for more on the limited runs, maybe, perhaps ;-)

What's the frakkin solution to this? It's an age-old problem, design/intellectual property protection, and we've got the wild west of Vaping to deal with too.

You know what I think? I'll need to go check, if they're not already doing it, kick-starters to "invest" in mod designers, and have some of us unwashed folks get a chance at having original mods from the designer (a lottery?) of the smaller investors (say 15$ for a shot at a new mod from a good designer) that would make sure they had their $$ to keep designing, reward the gifted designers, and say a percentage of the kick-start contributors get the mod at cost or free... We'd be ahead of the always poorer quality clone availability, and they'll copy good designs any way, so if you don't get the original lottery win, you can always buy the clone feeling good that you're not ripping off the designers.

I can spare $15 dollars here and there for the chance to get a $300 and up mod... the kickstart only goes through if it hits the minimum fund level (say 200 folks? 3000$ for the designer, give away 2 mods at cost+labor, that's what at the outside less than 200$ with a good labor rate the designer gets 2600$ balance and sells his limited run at full price on top of that...) Kick-starter anyone?

(my 2cent fuse of a response)

Update: Am I seeing this right? There's ZERO kickstarters for vape/vaping/mechanical mod/eCig search results.
 
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Bad Ninja

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Kick start a mod business?
Horrible idea. The last thing this industry needs is another Modder operating on a half assed business model.
That's why these mods have preorders and raffles ans cost so much.
Of mods were 2 or even 3 times the cost of a clone things would be different, but when you can buy a clone for 1/10 the cost of a legit mod it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to see something is wrong here.

Modders are victims of their own poor business plan.
 

gwelker

Full Member
Dec 17, 2013
31
49
Los Angeles
Kick start a mod business?
Horrible idea. The last thing this industry needs is another Modder operating on a half assed business model.
That's why these mods have preorders and raffles ans cost so much.
Of mods were 2 or even 3 times the cost of a clone things would be different, but when you can buy a clone for 1/10 the cost of a legit mod it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to see something is wrong here.

Modders are victims of their own poor business plan.

I'm not sure, by that logic anyone who does original design doesn't deserve to get paid for their up front work, only the commodity, clone low ball manufacturing price is justified. That's what kills design innovation in general, design patents and copyrights were created to fight that lowest common denominator logic. You create something novel, good, that people want, you should get a piece of it, even if you only make 10 and especially when someone copies the design 1:1 and sells a few thousand for their profit only without cutting you in on it.

Most artisan modders don't have business plans generally I think, just the need to create the next best mod and somehow thinking they'll get enough $$$ out of their effort to justify it. This is only a cottage industry for them, not a manufacturing production ramp up business plan situation with angel investors and all that.

There are some really good business endeavors going through kickstarter, characterizing them as potentially half-assed because they use crowd funding is, well, I guess your take on it.

Definitely agree with you that having a good business plan makes sure the modder doesn't get into negative cash flow with no way out. But that's like blaming an artist producing originals that his work costs too much when you can buy a stolen print for 1/10 the price and he should've bought brushes/canvas/paint in bulk so he could produce 1000 lot quantities (Tobeco/HCigar etc.).

I say keep the modders designing, give them some way to keep funded, other than lawyering up to sue an offshore company who copied their design(s). The next killer mod is not going to come out of China by way of Tobeco/HCigar etc., it's coming from an independent modder that's working on their own. I want to see what they come up with, not have them give up because they can't beat the lower quality production margins and quantity buying material price points of some offshore entity that could care less about the design.

ETSY models, Kickstarter models, these are ways to fight that kill innovation/creativity game. But the great thing with all those, is that if you don't want to pay to play (which I think you're saying you wouldn't ;-), you don't have to, and if no one wants what a modder's designing that'll become apparent also. Drives even more innovation, that competition. Who can do the best lowballing of a manufacturing build price, isn't a great path to go down for getting new and better designs. Actually, apply that to any industry, it's generally true.
 
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suspectK

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I ordered on mine on eBay...I was getting nano tanks from a seller, and I made the mistake of looking at the other products for sale, couldn't help myself. I also got a magnets from fatdaddyvapes for it..I guess I'll be ok with using a spring until those get here next week.

I'm getting 9boxes over the next 5 days. I agreed not to buy anything for a month.. I'm already getting the itch.:)
 

Commie

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Can anyone confirm the Tobeco clone is solid steel and not plated?

I have a recent (9000+) Tobeco and really want to buff off the art and re-engrave it...but if it's plated that wont go so well.

I'm almost positive. I ended up buffing the engravings. Not all the way off, but to the point where they were completely smooth to the touch and didn't scratch at my desk when sliding. It still looks stainless-y.
 

PLANofMAN

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Can anyone confirm the Tobeco clone is solid steel and not plated?

I have a recent (9000+) Tobeco and really want to buff off the art and re-engrave it...but if it's plated that wont go so well.
I've filed down the edges so they are not as sharp. This is 100% stainless steel.
 

erinarthur222

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