NickOTeen - are you saying (rather than surmising) that TW does not do any mixing / bottling; that all the 30ml bottles arrive sealed and ready to go?
The thing about food-grade flavors is that in inhalers the flavorings are not heated. Any flavoring that cannot vaporise in the e-cig is going to 'burn' there. It's a key difference.
btw, to me, nicotine is quite peppery in taste.
Yes, but the nicotine USP in the Platinum Ice is a lot less peppery than the (presumably reagent/industrial grade) nicotine in "regular" ejuice, mg for mg. There is a significant taste difference.
Yes - I can state it as fact. I've seen their operation, and they've never made any secret of that, which is why the label says "Made in China under authority of Pillbox38". They specify (and pay a hefty premium for) a top quality formulation, bottled and labelled ready for sale. Unfortunately their suppliers have not lately been delivering the required quality.
TW take the high reputation of their product very seriously indeed, and are taking bold measures to resolve this situation in the very near future.
It is a difference, but I'm not sure exactly how significant a one. Part of the specifications for food flavourings is that they must be thermo-stable when cooked, and not produce toxic byproducts during cooking. If you use strawberry flavouring and boiling sugar to make boiled sweets, the flavouring is bound to be exposed to much more heat than an atomizer could inflict on it. Likewise many frying/grilling/roasting applications where charring of the product is not only possible, but specifically desirable.
I agree it wants further research, and I wish we had ultrasonic atomizers on the market (if only out of curiosity,) but we can only start from where we are now.
Yes, but the nicotine USP in the Platinum Ice is a lot less peppery than the (presumably reagent/industrial grade) nicotine in "regular" ejuice, mg for mg. There is a significant taste difference.
Yes - I can state it as fact. I've seen their operation, and they've never made any secret of that, which is why the label says "Made in China under authority of Pillbox38". They specify (and pay a hefty premium for) a top quality formulation, bottled and labelled ready for sale. Unfortunately their suppliers have not lately been delivering the required quality.
TW take the high reputation of their product very seriously indeed, and are taking bold measures to resolve this situation in the very near future.
It is a difference, but I'm not sure exactly how significant a one. Part of the specifications for food flavourings is that they must be thermo-stable when cooked, and not produce toxic byproducts during cooking. If you use strawberry flavouring and boiling sugar to make boiled sweets, the flavouring is bound to be exposed to much more heat than an atomizer could inflict on it. Likewise many frying/grilling/roasting applications where charring of the product is not only possible, but specifically desirable.
I agree it wants further research, and I wish we had ultrasonic atomizers on the market (if only out of curiosity,) but we can only start from where we are now.
Yes, but the nicotine USP in the Platinum Ice is a lot less peppery than the (presumably reagent/industrial grade) nicotine in "regular" ejuice, mg for mg. There is a significant taste difference.
And as most juices from China don't have this problem, it would indeed be wise to switch to a better one.
After many false starts and sampling fluids from over 30 different suppliers and manufacturers, we found the fluid we had been looking for…
Nick, If the 36 mg unflavored is presumably supposed to be nic/PG, I've seen the distinct coloration in that myself. I'm familiar enough with the crude purification (likely acid/base exchanges) to know that they won't result in a clear product, and will also contain the range of tobacco alkaloids. Vacuum distillation, probably multiple are required to really clean things up. Anyway, the question.. should the red label nicotine be "essentially pure", I.E. up in the 99+ percent range? Seems to me some liberties are likely being taken with the purification.
Don't get me wrong, the 'elephant in the room' thread pushed vary hard for purer juices. I'm all for pharma grade nicotine.
The old thinking was though that they had purified to a significant level to keep most of the tobacco toxins out of the juice - and that is true. While keeping some of the tobacco flavor
- a reasonable idea at the time, so early in the development of e-cigs. Experience tells us that people mostly quickly change their tastes to prefer pure coffee or chocolate or whatever rather than coffee plus tobacco. And there is the obvious benefit or even greater removal of toxins. And better taste, yes, I agree. Perhaps peppery is the wrong word, but nic is certainly a strong 'taste' (not in a bad way).
Any lab is easily able to get the concentration right. The problem must be at the dilution, mixing and bottling stage. And as most juices from China don't have this problem, it would indeed be wise to switch to a better one.
Most flavorings are volatile, that's a fair point; but looked at a bit wider to include additives such as citric acid, that will not always be true. And the dry residues do become ashed on the coil. This, along with whatever becomes of the lost nicotine is, i would say, the greater source of any toxins still to be found in the vapor (as opposed to the liquid).
"frying/grilling/roasting" - these methods of cooking food produce far more toxins than most people realise, dwarfing anything from an e-cig.
...
Nicotine by titration: 53.9 mg/mL
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Nicotine by titration: 53.9 mg/mL
Thanks very much DVap! You are doing so much for us all in building a foundation of understanding and of liquids we can trust.
It is good to know that the Platinum Ice is bang on. I will now treat it, diluted with PG to a particular level, as my standard for knowing how juice of that level should feel toward satisfying cravings.
I don't know why the Platinum Ice seemed very strong to me even after diluting it to 27mg. There may be other explanations, but my guess for now is that the flavorless liquid I've been treating as 36mg (only because that's how the seller represents it) may not be that. It does have a noticeable tint so it certainly is not pure. And perhaps even in more trusted liquids some flavorings and impurities also modify the delivered strength in ways other than dilution.
Oh, one other question DVap - did you try vaping some of the Platinum Ice diluted with PG to your preferred strength? Any subjective difference vs. what you're used to?
WOW! That crap would kill me...
unless I just dropped the 30ml in a gallon of PG!
Then I could mix it... LOL!
I make that about 0.29 mg/ml (assuming a UK gallon,) so I wouldn't mix it down much more, or you'll have to use scientific notation, and drink the stuff to get a buzz (I know, there's always gotta be one smartass)
But it comes with full instructions and a mixing chart if you do fancy something a little bit stronger![]()
Good new about the 54 = 53.9 mg/ml for Platinum Ice
Was thinking forum-wise that there could be a way of new readers
finding the highlights of any given thread.
Perhaps a list of links in the original post of to within the thread itself.
Could be the (voluntary) 'responsibility' of the original poster (sorry DVap),
e.g. in this thread the final methodology defined, the headline
results, the key points, new information brought up, things found out.
Wouldn't necessarily apply to more general threads, but an info-intense
one like this would benefit.
I feel sometimes that there's so many useful topics discussed within
popular threads that it's very difficult for people to find/see what's going on.
None of that was in any way criticism of anyone's posting(s)
just a feeling that lots of info is 'lost' (quite quickly).
Maybe there could be forum 'bonus points' for original posters who
keep their link-list up to date.