Has anyone else seen these news reports in the last 24 hrs?

[Jebbn]

@AttyPops

If you google "bottled water endotoxin levels" or "drinking water endotoxin levels" or something similar you will find various studies that you can use as a comparison rate.


Its actually quite interesting. Im now searching "Mc Donalds endotoxin levels" and "Bread endotoxin levels" and various other everyday food items endotoxin levels.

LOL!! "lab equipment and endotoxin levels" theres a few articles to wade through on that.

 

[Vapedog]

People who hate smoking will always demonize anything that resembles that which they hate. vaping looks like smoking, so it must be as bad as cigarettes.

I remember once having to walk for 15 minutes at the airport to get outside for a smoke, only to have a grandma and her grandchildren make ugly faces at me for smoking more than 30 feet from the door on a windy day. She gathered the children under her overcoat and made a hateful face at me as they crossed the street and entered the airport. I suppose she would have viewed my vape the same way because it looks like smoke to the uninitiated.

Yes, for sure people do look at Vape like smoking. I have friends in the US and Australia and Europe. What I hear from all places though is everything negative from the top to the bottom with vaping. Not things looking on the up. Flavour bans, online selling bans, companies folding up, suppliers having to move to other states to stay in business. Far from a bad stare or glare from just a granny not being happy. Places where nicotine for ejuice is illegal, advertising illegal, shops not allowed even a sign saying they sell Vape gear. This is from government level, not people in the street being unawares. There are people in Europe that when Customs checks a parcel and see's a mod, a tank, coils, they destroy them on the spot. I personally know people that have had this happen to. And its increasing world wide, not decreasing as some misguidedly think.

 

[englishmick]

"We acknowledge several limitations. We tested only for contamination of samples from cartridges and e-liquids, which may differ from other types of EC products, such as second-generation (pens), third-generation (tanks/MODs), and fourth-generation (pods) devices. "

Wow. I guess if you got hold of a Model T Ford you could do some research and discover that cars belch out huge quantities of lead and only go 20 mph.

 

[englishmick]

Yes, for sure people do look at Vape like smoking. I have friends in the US and Australia and Europe. What I hear from all places though is everything negative from the top to the bottom with vaping. Not things looking on the up. Flavour bans, online selling bans, companies folding up, suppliers having to move to other states to stay in business. Far from a bad stare or glare from just a granny not being happy. Places where nicotine for ejuice is illegal, advertising illegal, shops not allowed even a sign saying they sell Vape gear. This is from government level, not people in the street being unawares. There are people in Europe that when Customs checks a parcel and see's a mod, a tank, coils, they destroy them on the spot. I personally know people that have had this happen to. And its increasing world wide, not decreasing as some misguidedly think.

I was talking to an old guy who stocks the shelves at our local supermarket a few days ago. I've known him for years but never seen him outside. He was smoking. They just discovered he has a problem with his Aorta and they told him he has to stop smoking. I mentioned vaping. He said he had thought about that but he was scared of them because they cause the Liquid Pneumonia. We talked a while about the difference between oil and PG and some other stuff but I think his mind was already made up. We have an uphill struggle for sure.

 

[Jebbn]

I might be wrong, Ive only just started accumulating info so I have a lot to wade through but the median EU/ml level for the vape juice in that research paper seems to be quite on par with the median EU/ml level for store bought milk.
I may have misread something though, oversimplified some of the data.

 

[stols001]

Ugh I am confused here I am taking a pill for "good bacteria" in my gut, and honestly there is a TON of bacteria out there I would be shocked if there was not bacteria in my vape because it is quite literally EVERYWHERE.

When you get into endotoxins and etc it's kind of a major reach.

I'm not going to get into how my probiotics are helping me but they are AWESOME.

I give up.

Anna

 

[bombastinator]

https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/EHP3469

"
We acknowledge several limitations. We tested only for contamination of samples from cartridges and e-liquids, which may differ from other types of EC products, such as second-generation (pens), third-generation (tanks/MODs), and fourth-generation (pods) devices. We did not test multiple samples of the same product to assess variation among different batches or packages of the same product. In addition, we identified endotoxin and glucan in samples from cartridges and bottles of e-liquids, but we did not evaluate contamination of aerosols inhaled by users. Finally, we analyzed small numbers of products that were selected from popular brands. Future studies should include larger numbers of products, should test products that have been systematically sampled to be representative of all EC products sold in the United States, should perform repeat tests of individual products from different production batches to assess within-product variability, should conduct targeted testing to evaluate specific sources of contamination and variation among different types of EC products, and should measure endotoxin and glucan concentrations in aerosol samples.

In conclusion, our findings indicate that some popular EC brands and flavors may be contaminated with microbial toxins. Additional research is needed to confirm our findings and assess potential exposures and health effects in EC user"

The bit that interests me is that they didn’t seem to mention safe dosages, what they measured was LOD. LOD is not safe minimum amount. It’s generally far far lower than that, and getting lower all the time as technology improves. This is how the dydactyl popcorn lung BS thing worked. They could detect the chemical, but then ignored how little of it there actually was compared to other things.


It IS possible that for these chemicals there is no safe minimum amount. That is true for a couple of materials such as asbestos. The question then becomes though what is the average background environmental exposure to the average American for such things and does this reperesent a material increase.

 

[T0mmy1977]

They may continue to post ridiculous things about vaping, trying to create a negative perception for it but some of the big players already know that this war is lost and pretty soon e-cigs/pods will replace cigarettes all around the world.
I've been at Vape Jam UK few weeks ago and Juul's manager during a conference told us they've made an agreement with Altria (Philip Morris) that pretty soon every pack of Altria's cigarettes will contain a message - "Switch to a healthier alternative - Vaping" and probably few words about JUUL. I believe it's a huge thing to achieve for the vaping community in general.

Has anyone heard that cigarettes may be bad for your health? Is that just a nasty rumor I heard?

 

[dreamvaper]

Has anyone heard that cigarettes may be bad for your health? Is that just a nasty rumor I heard?

what a fresh joke for e-cig forum

 

[zoiDman]

They all say how bad ecigs are, based on 75 cartridges tested in 2013.

If you have seen a Lot of them in a Short period of time, it is usually an Indication of something coming in the Near Future.

Like a FDA Nomination. Or perhaps a State Tobacco 21+ drive. Or maybe some Ginormous Tax that is being pushed thru committee.

It's kinda SOP. Lay the Minefield. Then herd your Enemy thru it.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Has anyone heard that cigarettes may be bad for your health? Is that just a nasty rumor I heard?

A vile rumor put out by Big Vape, hereinafter "BV", and state governments that are losing money by the sale of tobacco rather than vape products.

 

[Jingles]

I believe the article I read about this said that these endotoxins could lead to asthma, COPD, and other lung problems. I don't buy it. Vaping has been around for almost ten years now. Where are all the reports of increased asthma diagnosis among vapers? That's right, there aren't any! Don't you think, if there was a big uptick in asthma diagnosis among vapers, we would have heard about it by now?

 

[MacTechVpr]

The boundless proliferation of politicized "science" propaganda represents an existential threat to our species. Beware of any and all traces.

Good luck all.

 

[Jebbn]

I believe the article I read about this said that these endotoxins could lead to asthma, COPD, and other lung problems. I don't buy it. Vaping has been around for almost ten years now. Where are all the reports of increased asthma diagnosis among vapers? That's right, there aren't any! Don't you think, if there was a big uptick in asthma diagnosis among vapers, we would have heard about it by now?

There has been a rise in COPD diagnosis, and quite a dramatic rise in diagnosis.
I dont think its related to vaping because vapers only make up a small percentage of the population.
I think the rise in COPD diagnosis has more to do with 100yr old patents ending and the cost of medication being able to be lifted.
One study I read suggested that up to 40% of the diagnosis were incorrect or false.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

I don't go looking for bad news on any topic based on one sided studies or data manipulation.
Journalism crapped out about 20 years ago, soon after science became a results based on whoever provides funding business.

What we're left with is bought & paid for FUD factories disguised as news, science, medicine, food & drug safety.

It's always been about the money, specifically the multi billions of missing tobacco MSA money, the multi millions of missing money from the investment in NRT's made by big pharma, the multi millions BT has on the line and the multi millions used for Lobbying and manipulating the FDA.

There are billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of jobs at stake if 'e cigs' / vaping were to become 'acceptable.'
Vaping is one of those things 'they' didn't see coming, the horse left the barn so to speak and gained popularity with true quantifiable results, they have no choice, no other options but to either capture the run away horse and squeeze the missing monies from it or kill it.

Hundreds of billions of dollars,,, crank up the FUD machines and get to work.



46 states, not just CA.

 

[AttyPops]

Look, we know nearly squat about e-cigs long term yet. It looks promising, but I don't mind some science. What bothers me isn't the science, but as many of you have said, the motivations behind it and the lack of objectivity. Also how the big money and politicians use the information.

But if a study finds "something" and simply concludes "more study is warranted"...OK. Big nothing burger so far. It's the SPIN on it that's troublesome.

There's another one about nicotine (maybe vaping specific uses) and "nodules" that's interesting too. Needs more work. But it might just be nicotine, and happen with smoking, chew, snus, NRT's and vaping. IDK.

 

[charlie1465]

And tonight...in a study done on 1 dishcloth used by Mrs McFee from Distemper crescent, Glasgow a number of nefarious microbial toxins have been collated.

We can't actually tell you how many or why they are there but Mrs McFee did say that she's used the same cloth since 1967 and she said..I quote ''there's no harm in my dishcloth don't be stupid yer jumped up little *****''

The study's instigator said tonight that we need to come back and sample more cloth's and maybe towels from Mrs McFee to see if the findings would effect the wider community...

Currently there is a half a meter exclusion zone around Mrs McFee's sink but she's having none of it....More research is needed

 

[ScottP]

What it may take to shut down the false and distorted claims about vaping, may take lawsuits against those making the false claims. Unfortunately the only people able to file such lawsuit are the specific companies they make the false claims against.

 

[mac-nutty]

And tonight...in a study done on 1 dishcloth used by Mrs McFee from Distemper crescent, Glasgow a number of nefarious microbial toxins have been collated.

We can't actually tell you how many or why they are there but Mrs McFee did say that she's used the same cloth since 1967 and she said..I quote ''there's no harm in my dishcloth don't be stupid yer jumped up little *****''

The study's instigator said tonight that we need to come back and sample more cloth's and maybe towels from Mrs McFee to see if the findings would effect the wider community...

Currently there is a half a meter exclusion zone around Mrs McFee's sink but she's having none of it....More research is needed

 

[Jebbn]

All I know right now about endotoxin levels is Ive got to stop reading about endotoxin levels and go to bed.

Sypnosis on what Ive come to understand so far.
You know the study where they found fecal matter in vape juice but it turned out to be below the levels found on atm's or McD's door handles or anywhere they serve buffet style meals?
Or the study where they found vaping produced heavy metals but it turned out to be less than standing in a city or industrial workplace and breathing?
Its a long those lines. So far. But Ive just started. I have some gaps in my understanding and knowledge that I need to work on regarding endotoxins.