Has God Used you lately?
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Alright.. Ill play devils advocate.. (oh the irony)
In the scenario that good is omnipotent and can control all, meaning he/she/it knew and allowed innocents to die.. What if that was to serve a greater purpose that those of us discussing it can't see/know. In this scenario im envisioning that the innocents deaths save lives.. Either through paradigm shift or in, another way like a worse event ocurring in the absence of those deaths. Heck in the omnipotent model that could be the sole reason that the innocents existed in the first place.
In a second scenario.. What if god isn't as all powerful as many want to credit and either didn't know about these incidents or couldn't stop them. in that scenario, god could still be benevolent, just limited in influence in certain regards. I mean if you could make a universe and life but couldnt stop isolated events you still would have godly power.
The point is, if there is a god (i believe there is) we cant know why god does or doesn't do what he/she/it does or doesn't do.
Religion/spirituality is an odd thing. It can seem so certain and yet change so much. I started as,a Christian, became agnostic, then am atheist, then spiritual, then fully believing in God, to.becoming a Christian again. And at each step I was convinced that what I.believed was correct.
Via spontaneous binary code
So you think the house caught on fire by itself and could have been prevented.
There's bad people in the world and we make bad choice's that have a negative effect.
Absolutely. Beliefs are beliefs, and if they are not harming anyone, then I feel nobody has the right to step on them
The idea christianity doesnt harm anyone is laughable. It's teachings are mostly immoral and you can see this by looking at the places around the world where its allowed to operate unchecked by secular morality. Even in America it has to be dragged along kicking and screaming into the 21st century everyday, a country created to escape the religious monopolies that made other countries unpleasant places to live. It requires that otherwise good people think and act in immoral ways.
But thats beside the point, even if it did make people more positive as members of society, does that mean we still cant point out its absurdity? i dont care if it makes people better, which it doesnt, I care if its true.
An omnipotent god, such as you seem to believe in, could have prevented it. Yet he didn't. Is that benevolent? Is that just? IS taht fair? I don't think so. This is the incident that removed my faith in a higher power. I stood and watched as 6 kids burned to death. I smelled the smell, I saw the bodies. You cannot look at me and tell me there's a god after that. Call me closed minded, I'll agree with you.
The basic tenets of christianity are not harming anyone, and should be a part of everyone's lives. Treat people as you wish to be treated, Etc. It is the .......ization of different religions that tend to do the harm to humanity. Every religion has its own zealotry, and that zealotry is what tends to be the danger.
Yeah i mean the things that god does according to the bible, and then they turn around and say god is so good, I dont deserve his deliverance and all that, I mean its just strange. How can you be thankful to a horrific and psychologically unstable and irrational dictator for giving you a way to save yourself from a place he created just to torture you in. Its like North Korea on crack.
So, an omnipotent being therefore would be unable to rearrange reality in such a manner as to both save the innocents and save the future people. There goes omnipotence right out the proverbial window.
Interesting. This also assumes that the innocents in question are worth less than these supposed other people. I find this proposition morally bankrupt and, additionally, in direct violation of the benevolence thing.
God is advertised as omnipotent, therefore this is invalid.
However, let's play that out. To a dog, I am therefore God. I create food in their bowls.
To me, a god would be a god, of course. Except that the previous statement proves my perception must be incorrect.
Discuss.
Now if you're arguing that some other god with different defined powers--like, say, Zeus--might theoretically exist, but that said powers and intellect are limited in some manner, and that said being may not be omnibenevolent, I can cut you a lot more slack in the argument. Sure, not a problem. It would be difficult, but maybe not impossible, to prove that such a being could exist, or a pantheon of them could exist all at once. That argument might be accessible.
No comment.
Absolutely. Beliefs are beliefs, and if they are not harming anyone, then I feel nobody has the right to step on them
A slight weakness of argument there. Science is not a belief...but we have a thread for that.
Eh, a belief starts with an idea. Ideas are the basis of scientific thought.
Yea - And that raises a further question -
Why don't you follow the Quran? That's the same God - Why would you not want to know all that has been written about him?
You do not limit yourself to one Gospel do you? No - You look to all of them to get different sides of the story of Jesus -
Why would you not look to the different tales about the God of Abraham?
Jesus too for that matter - Jesus is a REALLY IMPORTANT character in the Quran as well -
So this all points even MORE the idea that THE BIBLE as complied by ROME is the source of your faith -
It was your post #148 that I was responding to - That post does not answer my questions - It is what PROMPTED them -
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The basic tenets of christianity rely on a denial of the observable Universe. Ignorance is harm. I have no desire to live in a world that denies science because it violates the precepts of the holy word.
You know, a mime is a terrible thing to haste. Or something like that.
Even more directly, said Bible is really quite happy with the whole slavery thing. I should hope we've learned a few things since the Bronze Age.
Wrong. But there's a thread for that, and they'll be quite happy to take you apart over there.
Conversation ends, this is off topic and...well, Surf knows I ain't got no time fur dat stuff.
You have a deliciously creative turn of phrase! I like it.
But beliefs have nothing to do with scientific conclusions -
Yesterday I went to the Atheism Vapers Social Group Forum and seen it was being invaded by those with a different view point, I also didn't think it was right. I even gave someone a like on a one thread.
While one thing led to another and you guy's started to post here on another thread than that thread was closed and you all came over here and started to post on this thread that I started. I thought fair is fair being what I saw on the Atheism Vapers Social Group Forum and you all were here doing it anyway why not give an invitation knowing you were all doing it any way.
Through all this I see that all your self proclaimed intelligence and self righteousness that all of you are no different than those people with their self righteousness and indignation who went to Atheism Vapers Social Group Forum and did the exact same things you're all are doing.
Oy vey
While one thing led to another and you guy's started to post here on another thread than that thread was closed and you all came over here and started to post on this thread that I started. I thought fair is fair being what I saw on the Atheism Vapers Social Group Forum and you all were here doing it anyway why not give an invitation knowing you were all doing it any way.
Through all this I see that all your self proclaimed intelligence and self righteousness that all of you are no different than those people with their self righteousness and indignation who went to Atheism Vapers Social Group Forum and did the exact same things you're all are doing.
Oy vey
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Through all this I see that all your self proclaimed intelligence and self righteousness that all of you are no different than those people with their self righteousness and indignation who went to Atheism Vapers Social Group Forum and did the exact same things you're all are doing.
I think you are over generalizing a bit - to me it looks like the people you have invited here have been very respectful - There are one or two folks here (who I have never seen before) who are being a little less so - But I don't see anything here that I would call "self-righteous" - Challenging you to explain yourself? Yea - But self righteous indignation? - Not so much -
Was that why you invited us here? So you could call us self-righteous for being here and discussing what you invited us to?
No one here is trying to SAVE you - That's what self-righteousness is - Telling people they are DOOMED unless they believe the same things they believe - That their way of living is BETTER - No one has done anything remotely like that to you - Only pointing out gaps in logic -
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Through all this I see that all your self proclaimed intelligence and self righteousness that all of you are no different than those people with their self righteousness and indignation who went to Atheism Vapers Social Group Forum and did the exact same things you're all are doing.
We were invited. If you wish to disinvite us, feel free. I, at least, am used to being disinvited from these kinds of discussions when presenting arguments and logic that the "true believers" either cannot answer or don't wish to answer because it makes them look bad (usually either pompous or bigoted, but sometimes simply thoughtless).
At no point have most of us proclaimed ourselves intelligent, so that must therefore be your conclusion on the matter. Thank you.
Self-righteousness...a definition of irony will be your friend right now.
In short, if you find yourself being overwhelmed with arguments you never considered and cannot answer, I don't advise you to blame the messenger. The problem, dear Mightymen, lies not in your stars...and so on.
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