Heads up on NiZn batteries.

[BobTheKlown]

So, if you don't mind me asking, what setup are you each using? I know originally Nobody was using 3 (in series?) to get ~4.5W under load, and Sci was using 2 (in series?) straight to an atty, but was thinking of adding a booster. I'm especially interested in how well they perform without regulators/boosters.

 

[Nobodyatall]

So, if you don't mind me asking, what setup are you each using? I know originally Nobody was using 3 (in series?) to get ~4.5W under load, and Sci was using 2 (in series?) straight to an atty, but was thinking of adding a booster. I'm especially interested in how well they perform without regulators/boosters.

I don't mind at all. It's a custom construction with 2 AAs in parallel for 1.6V powering a coil with a resistance of about .27 ohms. It should be dissipating around 9W with a fresh charge, no boosters, just pure brute power! I had started off with the 3 in series and using a standard 510 atty, but wanted to test some construction theories and see if I could sucessfully scale up Boertjies "Atty for life". The bats are holding very well and there is a very distinct "wall" you hit on a near full discharge. Oh, they are getting a workout! Bob, if they can stand up to 3 months of this, I would rate them "Stellar"(TM). And I'll have them bronze plated for my mantle and replace them with more!

We will see.

 

[LowThudd]

Love where you are going w/ these. I will deffinately be buying some for my pentax K-X. That cammera HATES Nimhs

 

[Nobodyatall]

Love where you are going w/ these.

Glad you approve! If, and that is a big "if", they withstand what I am doing, I'll end it with a "test to destruction" by pulling the same amperage out of a single bat until she won't charge no more, no more, no more, no more.

I don't see how they will make it. This is pretty brutal. I'm vaping them down about as fast as they can charge. Heavenly!

 

[BobTheKlown]

Any updates guys? No 'hollowed rings'? Still charging to full volts after running those heavy loads Nobody?
Inquiring minds and whatnot.....
I guess I scared Sci off by asking what he was running....

 

[BobTheKlown]

My local Fry's now has the aa batts, but not chargers....

 

[LowThudd]

My local Fry's now has the aa batts, but not chargers....

Well, that's Fry's for you. lol Like having coolaid mix and no sugar.

 

[Sci]

I've given them(one pair) over a full week of hard, all day use. They held up great, vaped great, & lasted all day. I was using a single pair in series in a 2AA box. I used 510, 2.5 ohm CE2 cartos the whole time. I'm working on a booster in a tube & tested it on them(pair 2) tonite, I only used it for a few hits, but it worked great with them.
The only reason I'm not still using the original pair is(I think) because I was doing too many things @ once & stuck one of them on the charger backwards, don't do that. It's reading 0v. Actually, I put it back on the charger with it's partner, the other one charged up to 1.9v, this one only got to about .45. There is a way to 'reset' these, I haven't tried it yet, but will. At any rate, it didn't explode, short the charger, or anything like that.
These are pretty impressive & definitely have potential!

 

[LowThudd]

I've given them(one pair) over a full week of hard, all day use. They held up great, vaped great, & lasted all day. I was using a single pair in series in a 2AA box. I used 510, 2.5 ohm CE2 cartos the whole time. I'm working on a booster in a tube & tested it on them(pair 2) tonite, I only used it for a few hits, but it worked great with them.
The only reason I'm not still using the original pair is(I think) because I was doing too many things @ once & stuck one of them on the charger backwards, don't do that. It's reading 0v. Actually, I put it back on the charger with it's partner, the other one charged up to 1.9v, this one only got to about .45. There is a way to 'reset' these, I haven't tried it yet, but will. At any rate, it didn't explode, short the charger, or anything like that.
These are pretty impressive & definitely have potential!

Your mistake sounds like good news to me. Thanks for being the guinaepig. lol

 

[BobTheKlown]

Your mistake sounds like good news to me. Thanks for being the guinaepig. lol

+1

I am sorry to hear you batt's not taking a charge, but (as I understand it, never tried it myself), that's a great reaction compared to NiMH or Li-Ion, so THANKS for testing that out for us too I'm always VERY careful with my NiMH going into the charger the right way b/c of the chance of a 'flaming vent occurrence', so very good to know...

I'm still waiting to hear how they hold up over a longer period of time, but so far they sound like winners!

 

[cappadoc]

Just made one of these in a 4AA box from Radio Shack using 3 AA NiZn batteries. At full charge, it runs 5.4V at the connector. I love this thing. I will certainly be making extras.

I forgot to add: the real beauty is that with 3 eneloops, it becomes a 1900mAh, 3.6V machine for the coffees and other flavors that do not like 5V. Imagine that. A VV mod under $20 and made with parts sourced locally.
I scavenged the 808 connector from a dead battery.

 

[Sci]

I took the one that was showing 0v & put it on a nicad charger(per instructions from their webiste-do this for a short time to 'reset' the battery). Within 30 minutes, it was sitting @ 1.7v. It didn't last very long.

I've had that pair sitting the desk all day, just metered them. The good one was @ 1.8v, the other is back to 0v. I put them both on the NiZn charger & it lit up showing charge, I'll let it run overnite & see what happens. I'm afraid I toasted that one battery somewhat. Oh well, got 7 more. It's good to know it won't explode when over-discharged. One of the key features about these batteries is that they are made with non-combustible materials!

I've got 2 in a 2xAA battery box right now with a LR 510 carto on top. I'm enjoying it! I haven't made a 3x mod with them yet, the 2x is working fine for me with LR cartos/attys.

Regarding VV mods, I've taken a 5v(boosted) mod & put a slide switch after the booster. One side to the switch went straight to the atty(5v), the other went to a regular diode, then to the atty(4.2v). I don't know the exact specs on the diode, it was one I had laying around. But, doing this, I had 5v or freshly charged(4.2) options with the flick of a switch. As long as the battery(s) were over about 3v, I had both options.

 

[NuGalicia]

...coil with a resistance of about .27 ohms...

I haven't done a mod yet. I'm still reading up on 'how to' first, so this'll probably sound like a dumb question. I noted you said shortening the coil wasn't a good idea, so...
* How do you get that low of a resistance?
Are you using wider diameter (lower guage) wire? Or is that a design secret at this point? I realize my question is off the 'NiZn batts' topic, but you mentioned it in this thread, so I guess this is the place to ask. Also, a super low resistance atty may be needed for NiZn batteries to last long enough(?)

 

[Nobodyatall]

I haven't done a mod yet. I'm still reading up on 'how to' first, so this'll probably sound like a dumb question. I noted you said shortening the coil wasn't a good idea, so...
* How do you get that low of a resistance?
Are you using wider diameter (lower guage) wire? Or is that a design secret at this point? I realize my question is off the 'NiZn batts' topic, but you mentioned it in this thread, so I guess this is the place to ask. Also, a super low resistance atty may be needed for NiZn batteries to last long enough(?)

Well, yes, shortening the coil on a standard atty to lower the resistance would probably rate as a BAD(TM) idea, given that they are using something like 36ga wire which is highly overloaded from the get go.

What I did was capitalize on the excellent current delivery of these batteries by using 26ga NiCr & winding my own coil... which is also mounted in a custom made atty. The length of wire used in the coil was calculated to produce a given end result of about 9 Watts originally. At this point I shortened it a bit for a resistance of .2ohms for an output of about 12 Watts.... well, probably just a little less due to losses in the wiring, but hey, it's an awfully small package to pack that output, don't you think?

What's even better is that the durability of the atty coil is astounding. I had a switch failure this past week. Poor little thing couldn't take the current and melted down. So I jumpered across it and was using the safety switch..... but failed to get it in the off position.... twice! On one of those occasions it had been left on for fully 5 minutes and smoke was rising! I said to myslef "Oh, you did it this time. It's toast!". But no, the coil survives to this day! The wick was trashed, naturally. When constructed of 26ga NiCr, a coil can survive surprising amounts of current.

That's the real selling point of the NiZn batteries. The current limitations of Li-Ion are hereby declared null and void! Higher current/lower voltage is now practical.... and a bunch of other stuff too.

(But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the e-cig manufacturers to jump on the bandwagon. They got a lot of Li-Ion manufacturing capacity to fill.)

 

[Nobodyatall]

Any updates guys? No 'hollowed rings'? Still charging to full volts after running those heavy loads Nobody?
Inquiring minds and whatnot.....
I guess I scared Sci off by asking what he was running....

And yes, they still charge up and give the original outputs. Even after that unfortunate incident when I had a pair of them in my pocket with too much spare change. DOH! They did get warm.

I've been in the middle of a move & much disruption for the past couple weeks, but I did take time to recheck output a week or so ago.

 

[BobTheKlown]

Woo-hoo!,
These are defenitly sounding like winners guys!, THANKS to Nobody and Sci for keeping us updated and continuing to test these batteries usefulness for our purposes!! Now if I can get Nobody to build me one of those attys I'll be all set!!

 

[johnny bobcat]

im definitely going to give these a try when the AAA's come out, for me a 4 AA box is just too big

 

[BobTheKlown]

Johnny: but, with the higher voltage on these vs NiMH, Sci's using a 2aa box!

 

[Nobodyatall]

Johnny: but, with the higher voltage on these vs NiMH, Sci's using a 2aa box!

And I WAS using a 2 AA box.... until the tiny switch died... & the backup died (current is too high for reliability with the much beloved tiny RS switch).... For now it is a pair in a 4 AA box. But there is a side benefit. I can run 3 NiMh and it still works pretty well. Heh. With better planning I could make a juicebox out of a 4 AA and run most of the day on 3 AAs. This one is just repurposed from earlier testing and I'm trying to be diligent about running them in pairs.

@ Bob: Mmmmm... Bob, if you can build a box with the AAs in parallel, I will make you up an atty. You would need heavy duty wiring because it will run @ 1.6V (and about 8A). Any resistance in the box wiring and it just won't work right because the current is reduced due to extra resistance. You can't use the crap wiring that comes in the box or the switch. Again, that's batteries in parallel. There's some serious soldering and bridging involved. A 2 AA box is very cramped & you may have a problem finding a pushbutton that can take the load. A 4 AA is easier in that respect and can be run with 3 NiMh as well. This is a different sort of cat than the usual box. You up to it?

 

[BobTheKlown]

I think I am. May not be feasible for this payday, I've got one fancy mod (read: costume accessory) I'm trying really hard to get done by Halloween (looks like I may not get the parts from China in time to have it totally done, though)... After that these batts are on the top my list, and I would LOVE to try one of those attys. I think I could wire it. What gauge wire did you use? I'm assuming it's heavier duty then the USB wire I've been using? and the only switches I can find would be toggle switches, but that may be a good excuse to finally use one of these:

I'm thinking 2x 2aa boxes back to back or 1 2aa and 1 2aaa. I just think 1 2aa box might be hard for me to hang onto, as well as harder to fit everything in...