- Status
I would think flavorings and sweeteners and steeping would reduce harshness. I also believe there are some additives that can be used to smooth out harshness, but I'm afraid I don't know the names of them. It might be worth a shot though.
But, it might be time to see if you can remove the harshness on your own. People convert regular nicotine to nic salts, using citric acid. There is a thread on it somewhere, I THINK the DIY thread? You can actually measure the Ph as you convert it, but it's overall not that complicated I think. It will take time for whatever agent you use (most folks use citric acid) to dissolve into the nic.
If you do a mix and it remains harsh, that might be an option as at that point, you don't have much to lose if you can't vape the nic.
I started DIY with Nic River's nic salts. They're excellent and not harsh. When I started out my throat was pretty torn up I didn't WANT a nic hit. I finished stockpiling with regular nic, and I have a feeling I'll be able to vape it now, but if not, I plan to convert it. Nic River's nic salts are great, but not cheap. They do have sales from time to time.
Nic salts are also reported to remain more stable over time. IDK about that, but I will say I get NO harshness using nic salts, nor any kind of peppery "taste."
Good luck!
Anna
But, it might be time to see if you can remove the harshness on your own. People convert regular nicotine to nic salts, using citric acid. There is a thread on it somewhere, I THINK the DIY thread? You can actually measure the Ph as you convert it, but it's overall not that complicated I think. It will take time for whatever agent you use (most folks use citric acid) to dissolve into the nic.
If you do a mix and it remains harsh, that might be an option as at that point, you don't have much to lose if you can't vape the nic.
I started DIY with Nic River's nic salts. They're excellent and not harsh. When I started out my throat was pretty torn up I didn't WANT a nic hit. I finished stockpiling with regular nic, and I have a feeling I'll be able to vape it now, but if not, I plan to convert it. Nic River's nic salts are great, but not cheap. They do have sales from time to time.
Nic salts are also reported to remain more stable over time. IDK about that, but I will say I get NO harshness using nic salts, nor any kind of peppery "taste."
Good luck!
Anna
Thank you Anna. My problem comes from the fact that i am a smoker. I am trying to find that happy place where i have a modestly acceptable throat hit, yet i dont want to be vaping for a half hour to feel like i've smoked only a cigarette.
I just dont understand how vendor ejuices at 6mg have never given me a problem, yet my unflavored 6mg is unvapable
It's definitely odd. It's not very likely, but did the vendor juices use nic salts? If they did they'd certainly advertise it, so if they don't say they're using nic salts they aren't. Other than that, have you double-checked your calculations?
I never noticed a nic salt advertisement. I suppose that could be possible. I always dilute my 12mg to 6mg in my final mixes by knowing that the total ml of my vg and flavor combined must equal the amount of 12mg
So I've been thinking. Do you think it is likely that it is possible that I've been getting 12mg hotspots because it hasnt mixed completely with my vg? How hard and long should i be shaking to ensure my vg and nic base mix?
I made mistake buying nicotine which is VG based. VG based nicotine is very hard to evenly mix with your e-liquid...no matter how hard I was shaking it by hand nicotine was not evenly distributed in my juice... it is better to use PG based nicotine as it easier distribute in your high VG liquid. The other solution is strong mechanical shaker... the best and probably cheapest is something like this:
I have to use VG nic, I am PG sensitive. It is a bit of a pain to work with, but I never had issues with it mixing evenly. I steep for about 4--6 weeks, and shake whenever I remember, but I just shake manually.
IDK if it would be harder for it to 'blend" without the proper steeping, but I don't get any kind of peppery taste if adequately steeped. I use nic salts for DIY though, although I am planning on returning to trying freebase once my current bottle is over.
There's certainly nothing wrong with an electronic mixer or something, your nic should be adequately mixed after using one of those.
I really think steeping may be your friend, here, in terms of harshness but that's just my thoughts on the matter. It is equally possible you got nic that just doesn't agree with you.
Most DIY wholesalers will send a sample for the cost of shipping. You might try that to make sure you get a nic that you "like" (I'd probably try a nic salt sample, as well) before buying in quantity.
Best of luck,
Anna
IDK if it would be harder for it to 'blend" without the proper steeping, but I don't get any kind of peppery taste if adequately steeped. I use nic salts for DIY though, although I am planning on returning to trying freebase once my current bottle is over.
There's certainly nothing wrong with an electronic mixer or something, your nic should be adequately mixed after using one of those.
I really think steeping may be your friend, here, in terms of harshness but that's just my thoughts on the matter. It is equally possible you got nic that just doesn't agree with you.
Most DIY wholesalers will send a sample for the cost of shipping. You might try that to make sure you get a nic that you "like" (I'd probably try a nic salt sample, as well) before buying in quantity.
Best of luck,
Anna
Same here. VG nic, VG base, 10% flavor, 10% water. Shake and vape if I'm in a pinch for that flavor.
If the bubbles are well dispersed in the jar everything else is too. About 5 shakes and it looks well mixed to me. I've never had a problem.
I only purposefully steep certain flavors that have proven to have changes from steeping.
I've only heard of pepper taste reliably (here) in the different nicotine brand thread. Less reliably (elsewhere) a much similar story with poor end user handling being to blame and possibly bad PG.
I'm thinking maybe when OP dilutes the nic might be where the possible hot spots are occurring. Or if the original bottle of nic wasn't shaken enough to begin with.
Peppery flavor in juice made with freebase (not salts) liquid nicotine usually means too strong of a concentration. It may make you cough, too.
It may have been mislabeled, or you might have slipped a decimal point in the recipe mix.
It may have been mislabeled, or you might have slipped a decimal point in the recipe mix.
ummmm ,,,,cowboy.....
Peppery tasting nic comes from the levels of oxidation (air in the mixture) and usually results in nic solutions that have either been purposely infused with air and left in a heated room or the mixture has been around a longer period of time. i.e. didn't sell as quickly as the vendor had hoped.
Vaperstek offers a specific peppery type of nic solutions as well as their premium brands. Some vapers actually do like the peppery nic for the throat hit and it is cheaper than the premium brands.
just saying....
Welcome and glad you joined.
For clarity:
"Throat hit is the sensation in the throat caused by nicotine as it's inhaled. It ranges from a smooth satisfying catch as the vapor travels down the throat to an intolerable harshness. Smokers who've tried to inhale a cigar will know the sensation at its worst. Vapers seek a throat hit that suits them."
re: All about Throat Hit!
I vape zero nic because:
of excessive throat hit/harshness of nic - way too harsh
the threat of FDA banning the purchase of nic in the future
the increasing cost of the product - on going and most expensive single DIY ingredient.
the psychological (chemical to some degree) dependence
I'm finding I made the correct decision for me, but I see your reasoning and desires. Good luck on finding your happy place.
"You've done a mix, and it turned out great. After a while though, the mix slowly turns harsh, as it steeps - you're getting a way harder throat hit than you used to. Chances are you have added too much flavoring. Try to dial down the flavoring, and let it steep before sampling it."
Re E Liquid Recipes/Master Mixer's Tips & Tricks.
As to adding another ingredient to smooth the mix, I'm not a big fan of that solution.
ummmm ,,,,cowboy.....
Peppery tasting nic comes from the levels of oxidation (air in the mixture) and usually results in nic solutions that have either been purposely infused with air and left in a heated room or the mixture has been around a longer period of time. i.e. didn't sell as quickly as the vendor had hoped.
Vaperstek offers a specific peppery type of nic solutions as well as their premium brands. Some vapers actually do like the peppery nic for the throat hit and it is cheaper than the premium brands.
just saying....
I only get a pepper flavor when I forget to change an older recipe's nic concentration from 6mg/ml to 3mg/ml or when I over do a flavor strength. I finished a nearly four year old bottle of nic that I got when MBV was still serving the DIY market. It tasted fine from start to finish. I have another bottle just like it that I opened right after the first one was finished. It's pepper-free, too. The only change between purchase date and today is a color change.
I have a number of different juices that are almost that old--mostly commercial but some DIY. One of those is a half bottle of 12mg Monkey .... from Mister E-Liquid. Another is Boba's Bounty bought at 24mg and cut to 18mg right after buying. No harsh flavor there either (I had to try it).
None of this stuff has seen the inside of a freezer.
I believe that USP nicotine is USP nicotine, regardless of whose label is on it. The only difference between any two bottles of a given concentration should be the price. The same goes for USP VG, USP PG, USP anything.
Nobody will ever convince me that one vendor's USP stuff tastes better than or is somehow different from any other vendor's USP stuff.
Just to clarify, I am not pushing or recommending the vendor in my post. I only used them as an example as to the differences of the nic in which I was speaking to in my comments.
I have left out nic on my counter(at one point a while back) and did notice a color change start to take place. Then the smell got stronger and with that the nic got a harsher more peppery taste. It was just a small amount so it did not take long. It was not near anything hot(like the stove) or even near a window. It is my belief that this change is due to the nic starting to degrade due to the exposure to light and air.
I am also in agreement with you that the nic(freebase) sold by USA vendors come from just a few sources and is all the same if it is USP. What I was referring to was the age of the nic and at what stage that nic is currently in.
I have some DIY that is almost 4 years old at a higher nic mg that I also had to dilute when I began using sub ohm and it was harsh to me at the higher level(as you pointed out) but I realized when I diluted it that by adding more flavor, pg,vg to reduce the nic in the original bottle that the taste of the nic was also diluted and smoother.
I sincerely hope I didn't ruffle any feathers and I wasn't trying to dispute anything you said.
Peace?
So im going to try and attribute my failures to user error. I have been makimg 10ml at a time, and every ml error can result in a 1mg difference, which could result in higher nic content. That with the fact my vg may not be mixing in well enough with my nic may also be giving me hotspots. Im going to make a 30ml as soon as i find a flavor i like, and steep normally to see if it solves my problem. I am also going to lightly blend a 10ml to see if hotspots are my problem. I'll get back to you
1ml is a big mistake to make let alone multiple 1ml mistakes in 10ml. I don't think I could be that far off even measuring 18ml with my 20ml syringe.
You're not trying to make up for the needle by removing bubbles are you? If you ignore the needle the plunger moves the correct amount of ml no matter what size needle you have. But even a huge needle for VG doesn't account for a ml, maybe .2ml.
I can't imagine you are having a measuring problem with 12mg and syringes.
I'm thinking it has to be brand. I can't taste my flavorless nicotine even at 18mg all VG. If I was sure Nicotine Giant was the same as RTS I would tell you to try them, but it's been a long time since I've bought and they've gone through the change who knows if it's the same supplier and treated the same. They (RTS) was the one that had the least flavor and throat hit in the Nicotine Comparison thread (way back when when I was starting DIY).
But I also think NN was supposed to be clean tasting.
Both WL and NN tasted the same. I believe my error from syringe is because im using a 3ml to measure everything, so i have to plunge a total of 5 times for a mix(2 for nic, 2 for vg, 1 for flavor) So 1ml error is possible. Im ordering a 10ml with my next nic purchase. I also pull the plunger back far enough so i use the liquid as my measure line. I am also going to try stopping the plunger at the .5ml level to take the syringe out of the question.
I am also going to try the 12mg by itself to see how bad it tastes? @Myk what watts do you vape at? I can lower the watts enough to remove the taste, but then im fighting leaking. And going that low isnt satisfying enough for me.
- Status
Similar threads
