Help me get off sub-ohming
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The stone cold truth really is there are people who needed higher watts in order to quit smoking and simply grew to enjoy it.
Vaping isn't one size fits all and no one can judge another vaper.
MTL worked for you great, it worked for me too.. it doesn't work for everyone.
I don't sit around and judge you because your afraid to try and quit vaping... nope. It's to each his own. For any vaper, no matter how they vape.
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I never said that there weren't other valid reasons to vape.
Some are just more valid than others.
That's where you and I are going to disagree.
You're obviously of the school who has been taught that it's wrong to judge for any reason.
I don't hold with that school of thought and never will.
God gave us all judgment for a reason, choosing not to use it doesn't make you a better person.
In a lot of cases it only serves to make people artificially stupid.... And of their own volition at that.
People can do whatever the hell they want I'm a firm believer in that.
I'm just stating my opinion.
I've never been a fan of sub-ohming.
The brick and mortar stores pushed it on people as the more advanced way to vape.
And that's because vaping at 150 watts burns through a massive amount of juice and they found that higher wattage vapers are more apt to buy the next latest and greatest mod to come out that week.
For a lot of those stores it's all about the sales.
And that's not a trap that I ever wanted to fall into.
In the six years that I've been vaping Ive saved over $17,000 by not smoking.
And that's because I bought mods that were built to last..... And because my juice and coils last me a hell of a lot longer.
The Op was asking for people to help them get off sub ohming.
I'm just giving them reasons why some of us don't like it.
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Dear @zapped, while I decisively agree with pretty much all of your quoted comment, I really don't perceive the comment by @Opinionated to be as adversarial as you seemed to interpret. It seems to me that you both share more than a little in your "positions." Of course, at 65 and in view of my "checkered" past, I MIGHT be suffering from early onset dementia!!
It would be nice if there were nice tidy categories but IDK. Sure, the MTL/DL category has some usefulness, especially early on. The vastness of both categories, well, it can be fairly vast. However, I think most people wind up preferring one over the other in terms of overall preference etc.
I don't believe sub0hming "doomed" or "hastened" what is happening with vaping that much honestly. Vaping became doomed because it WORKS. Period.
I really think just now is not the time for vapers to be divisive, personally. Vaping WORKS and for some people one OR the other works better.
I also don't think MTL is in any way a dying category, there are plenty of people who prefer one or the other, and one OR the other method helped them quit smoking. If it's sub0hm that gets someone to quit smoking, well, it's just more proof that vaping works.
Build a better mousetrap is Actually the sign of an industry that is thriving. Rude vaping is one thing, but to say sub0hming doomed the vaping industry? Not so much. Sub0hming was what worked for my kid and I'm glad it did. Etc.
Whether or not some B&M are "pushing it" is kind of beside the point. Etc.
Besides, I thought the latest was it was the Juul that doomed the vape industry and teen use, it's hardly DL is it??
Anna
I don't believe sub0hming "doomed" or "hastened" what is happening with vaping that much honestly. Vaping became doomed because it WORKS. Period.
I really think just now is not the time for vapers to be divisive, personally. Vaping WORKS and for some people one OR the other works better.
I also don't think MTL is in any way a dying category, there are plenty of people who prefer one or the other, and one OR the other method helped them quit smoking. If it's sub0hm that gets someone to quit smoking, well, it's just more proof that vaping works.
Build a better mousetrap is Actually the sign of an industry that is thriving. Rude vaping is one thing, but to say sub0hming doomed the vaping industry? Not so much. Sub0hming was what worked for my kid and I'm glad it did. Etc.
Whether or not some B&M are "pushing it" is kind of beside the point. Etc.
Besides, I thought the latest was it was the Juul that doomed the vape industry and teen use, it's hardly DL is it??
Anna
I've never felt so disappointed by this community than I have when reading some of this thread.
This is simply wrong - I only care because you claim statistics back you up despite the fact that not only do statistics not back you up but the Flynn effect and correction prove otherwise. IQ has only gone up and up - to such an extent that every decade IQ tests get harder so that 100 remains average - if you scraped into mensa twenty years ago then you would no longer qualify. In fact, this is actually the best proof of how useless IQ tests are as a measure of intelligence as <70 indicates intellectual disability yet if an average person from just over a century ago took a modern test they'd fall within this category despite being intellectually capable.
What is arrogant is saying that vaping to make a nicotine addiction less harmful is okay but vaping to make an addiction to another drug less harmful is not. One of my friends lost an arm to gangrene due to gouching out with a needle left in there. Smoking ...... on foil is so wasteful that few addicts even consider it an option unless they're made of money. Vaping it would have saved his arm.
Legality doesn't equate to morality and denying harm-reduction technology to people because you don't like their drug of choice, rathering that they suffer collapsed nostrils, blown-out veins, frequent infections, risk of sepsis and risk of overdose etc is barbaric. Doing so because you're worried it could affect you is selfish - you do not "have the most to lose", not even close. Even if we're not talking in extremes with illicit substances, just cloud chasing with zero nicotine, what gives you the right to say what others do with their body?
**EDIT: I'm not saying politeness doesn't exist. Don't be a nuisance to others and the larger the clouds you produce the more vigilant you should be to ensure you don't affect/annoy others**
I have mild synaesthesia so this is actually perfectly valid to me - well, I can imagine a couple of brown guitar tones easily, with varying shades and textures to the "brush strokes" (although that isn't a great descriptor of how music forms visually in my head). I don't like any of them by themselves mind you - brown on a classical guitar exists in my mind only as really old bass strings and on electric guitar its a muffled distorted setting that would work in stoner metal and little else.
I can't imagine an orange piano tone no matter how hard I try - it simply ceases to be a piano tone the moment orange gets involved. In fact I'm struggling to think of any instrument that can produce a solidly orange tone in my head, at best bowed stringed instruments occasionally produce flickers of orange amidst light browns, golds and whites. Some electronically produced music paints lots of orange though
This is simply wrong - I only care because you claim statistics back you up despite the fact that not only do statistics not back you up but the Flynn effect and correction prove otherwise. IQ has only gone up and up - to such an extent that every decade IQ tests get harder so that 100 remains average - if you scraped into mensa twenty years ago then you would no longer qualify. In fact, this is actually the best proof of how useless IQ tests are as a measure of intelligence as <70 indicates intellectual disability yet if an average person from just over a century ago took a modern test they'd fall within this category despite being intellectually capable.
What is arrogant is saying that vaping to make a nicotine addiction less harmful is okay but vaping to make an addiction to another drug less harmful is not. One of my friends lost an arm to gangrene due to gouching out with a needle left in there. Smoking ...... on foil is so wasteful that few addicts even consider it an option unless they're made of money. Vaping it would have saved his arm.
Legality doesn't equate to morality and denying harm-reduction technology to people because you don't like their drug of choice, rathering that they suffer collapsed nostrils, blown-out veins, frequent infections, risk of sepsis and risk of overdose etc is barbaric. Doing so because you're worried it could affect you is selfish - you do not "have the most to lose", not even close. Even if we're not talking in extremes with illicit substances, just cloud chasing with zero nicotine, what gives you the right to say what others do with their body?
**EDIT: I'm not saying politeness doesn't exist. Don't be a nuisance to others and the larger the clouds you produce the more vigilant you should be to ensure you don't affect/annoy others**
I have mild synaesthesia so this is actually perfectly valid to me - well, I can imagine a couple of brown guitar tones easily, with varying shades and textures to the "brush strokes" (although that isn't a great descriptor of how music forms visually in my head). I don't like any of them by themselves mind you - brown on a classical guitar exists in my mind only as really old bass strings and on electric guitar its a muffled distorted setting that would work in stoner metal and little else.
I can't imagine an orange piano tone no matter how hard I try - it simply ceases to be a piano tone the moment orange gets involved. In fact I'm struggling to think of any instrument that can produce a solidly orange tone in my head, at best bowed stringed instruments occasionally produce flickers of orange amidst light browns, golds and whites. Some electronically produced music paints lots of orange though
Dear @zapped, while I decisively agree with pretty much all of your quoted comment, I really don't perceive the comment by @Opinionated to be as adversarial as you seemed to interpret. It seems to me that you both share more than a little in your "positions." Of course, at 65 and in view of my "checkered" past, I MIGHT be suffering from early onset dementia!!
Oh I didn't see it as adversarial either. More like a spirited discussion.
Ask the old-timers around here, my posts have a tendency to come across as harsh.
That's not my intention all the time. I just don't sugar coat stuff.
I'm not Willy Wonka.
First. The OP had his/her own reasons for no longer wanting to subohm and wanted advice on tanks etc he/she could use so that vaping MTL didn't result in a sacrifice of flavor.
He didn't want YOUR opinion of sub ohm vaping.
SECOND. bless you. I always knew that I was not in the least a judgmental person, it is my children who always begged to differ.
Thus, I will happily frame your response to me as proof I am not the judgemental Opinionated b##ch the world has convinced me I am all my life.. at the very least this later half of it.
Hahaha
Third. My son smoked three packs of Marlboro reds per day. He now vapes, made the full switch. He vapes at 100 watts, happily guzzling ejuice and battery life at unfathomable levels, after unsuccessfully trying MTL vaping and mod womping with me helping him making sure the best equipment was being used, and being used properly.
I'm damn sure not judging him, because I'm thrilled to death that its been over a year since his last cigarette.. and while I tease the boy, I don't think him or anyone like him deserves your judgement as if vaping wasn't invented for him too.
"What is arrogant is saying that vaping to make a nicotine addiction less harmful is okay but vaping to make an addiction to another drug less harmful is not. One of my friends lost an arm to gangrene due to gouching out with a needle left in there. Smoking ...... on foil is so wasteful that few addicts even consider it an option unless they're made of money. Vaping it would have saved his arm.
Legality doesn't equate to morality and denying harm-reduction technology to people because you don't like their drug of choice, rathering that they suffer collapsed nostrils, blown-out veins, frequent infections, risk of sepsis and risk of overdose etc is barbaric. Doing so because you're worried it could affect you is selfish - you do not "have the most to lose", not even close. Even if we're not talking in extremes with illicit substances, just cloud chasing with zero nicotine, what gives you the right to say what others do with their body?"
It's actually a long-held position here on these forums that there is to be no mention of illicit substances and that's for a reason.
If it's arrogant for me to make that judgement then I'm not alone here, not by a long shot.
We as vapers, gain NOTHING by being associated with drug addicts. No matter how benign you or I might think said drug might be.
Legality doesn't equate to morality and denying harm-reduction technology to people because you don't like their drug of choice, rathering that they suffer collapsed nostrils, blown-out veins, frequent infections, risk of sepsis and risk of overdose etc is barbaric. Doing so because you're worried it could affect you is selfish - you do not "have the most to lose", not even close. Even if we're not talking in extremes with illicit substances, just cloud chasing with zero nicotine, what gives you the right to say what others do with their body?"
It's actually a long-held position here on these forums that there is to be no mention of illicit substances and that's for a reason.
If it's arrogant for me to make that judgement then I'm not alone here, not by a long shot.
We as vapers, gain NOTHING by being associated with drug addicts. No matter how benign you or I might think said drug might be.
Precise opposite story to make the same point here! I started on a low-watt pen with really tight airflow and relapsed repeatedly until I bought a smok alien. I closed the airflow down almost completely but it was still much airier than my previous device but I haven't relapsed to cigarettes since that day - even though it broke soon after (I replaced it with a Dovpo). I learned, incorrectly, that higher wattage with less nicotine is more satisfying. I didn't know anyone that used pens except my dad had at one point tried quitting cigs with them, unsuccessfully. I bought him a device I would enjoy and his lungs can't handle it at all, so it didn't help.
Turned out the pen was fine for him, its just that he works night shifts and can't find anywhere to buy unflavored e liquids that fits with his sleep schedule (and couldn't convince himself to make his own) so actually what I needed to do for him was make him loads of juice!
EDIT: Hate to break it to you zapped but you're a drug addict too, even if your substance is legal. No, you don't gain anything from it - the fact that you use that argument to justify denying harm reduction is a textbook example of being selfish and I'm far more ashamed of being associated with people that are as selfish as you are than I am of being associated with other addicts.
Yes, you are not alone here... and you are also addict... and just because you are addict it is not valid reason some hobbies should be reserved only for addicts...
As a former smoker (I smoked for 43 years) I would never support making smoking.......illicit.........
alcohol kills more young people than smoking....some people smoke for more than half century and are in better health than donut eaters....(do not get me wrong I love eating donuts and do not want them to be made illegal)...
What we should make illegal is climbing Mt. Everest and bungie jumping.... we should create another federal agency that fights risky hobbies...
Again you are conflating subohming with high wattage and huge clouds. No one pushed me into using a sub ohm coil. I just find it gives me a good dtl vape at 14 watts. I like a cool vape but want enough vapor to stay off cigarettes.
I want the OP to understand that you can subohm at a reasonable level and maybe all that needs to change is the wattage.If he/she hasn't already run from this thread screaming into the night.lol
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One of these days we will get over the idea that sub-ohm means high watts and high vapor production. I'm currently vaping a 0.34 ohm SS coil in a DoggyStyle RTA at 15 watts. My juice is 100% PG and if I hold the vape for three seconds it is the ultimate stealth vape in that there is virtually no cloud at all.
But old philosophies die hard once they have been accepted by a community. Maybe next year this will change for us
I'm honestly not holding my breath though ... no pun intended
, but I'm an optimist so I continue to hope reality will sink in eventually.
I think it's interesting that you use the term " vape pen".
I've been a part of vaping for a VERY long time and the only time I hear " vape pen" or people calling ejuice "oil" is when it's mentioned by people who " partake".
I'm sorry if I personally offended you or someone you know.
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