Home Test for Nicotine Blood Levels ???

Status
Not open for further replies.

YKruss

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 21, 2009
1,771
1,245
Springfield, VA
Your results gave me a little (or big?) relieve.

The point is that if we, vapers, get as little nicotine in our system as your test shows then that amount probably will not have a great effect on cardio-vascular system which I have concern about.

All I know that my blood pressure stays the same measured in the morning when I wake up and second time after vaping 18mg nic using Janty Stick for half an hour.
 

Tom09

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Feb 22, 2009
504
125
Germany
urine vs. saliva test

The levels of cotinine in urine, blood and salvia are highly correlated. Concentrations in blood and salvia are nearly the same, and typical urine to blood ratio is about 5. I think that the TobacAlert test strips for urine(U) and their test strips for salvia(S) show the same classes (level 0 - level 6), but differ in the respective cotinine concentrations. One could check back with Nymox and ask about the principal difference between their salvia and urine test strips. I expect this difference to be the concentrations, concentrations only. Therefore, testing salvia on the TobacAlert(S) strips designed for salvia should have the same limitation as testing urine on the TobacAlert(U) strips designed for urine.

However, the correlation between the salvia and urine cotinine concentrations may allow to overcome the relatively low cutoff of the TobacAlert(U) test strips. For example, running with a urine to salvia ratio of 5, assume sampling a person with actual concentrations of cotinine(U) = 2000 ng/ml and the equivalent cotinine(S) = 400 ng/ml. The urine sample would show up as level 6 on the TobacAlert(U) strip, corresponding to a reading of > 1000 ng/ml cotinine(U). A salva sample on the TobacAlert(U) strip, however, would return level 4, now corresponding to a reading of 200-500 ng/ml cotinine(S) or the equivalent of 1000-2500 ng/ml cotinine(U). In other words: putting salvia, instead of urine, on the test strip designed for urine should allow to quantify concentrations of cotinine(U) up to the 5000 ng/ml concentration level. This would lower the resolution, but extend the range for cotinine(U) measurements by a factor of five (approx.).
 

Kate51

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Mar 27, 2009
3,031
22
78
Argyle Wi USA
I think you hit the nail right on the head!! What you said. Couldn't have said it better myself:)
Exactly right. THANK YOU for doing that. I have been able to find NO research data on cigarette smoking testing on saliva, would that still correlate with plasma testing numbers? Easier to find data, a couple I wanted to see but price too high $25 for PDF.
Just for purpose of cig vs PV numbers, which a lot of people want to know, i.e., how am I comparing now from then.
Also, concentration of cotinine in urine is a factor of 10x, correct? So how would that configure the test numbers for saliva using a urine strip? If you can figure that out I'll give you another Smiley!
 

Kate51

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Mar 27, 2009
3,031
22
78
Argyle Wi USA
I tend to agree with that, rejoice, seems fair to assume the more vapor the more nic delivered per hit. I started with an NPro, but found the cart too small, constant re-filling, so went to an 801 penstyle, and got a Janty Stick on June 1st, to get away from those expensive and credulous batteries but keep the huge cart size. Very pleased with it, keeps me satisfied with 24mg/ml juice and I'm not vaping constantly as before, I think I have cut back maybe as much as 15% or so...the 36mg juice made me sick!!!! I found the same juices also taste different with different PV models as well. I never tried the GG, so don't know how it compares with the JS power-wise. It uses a ICR10440 360mAh battery.
 
Last edited:

bearscreek

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 7, 2009
838
2
TN
This is great information to have. I really appreciate the fact that you're doing the tests and sharing your results. I can tell I'm not getting as much nicotine in my system as I used to. In fact, my nicotine probably would have been satisfied by a cigarette every 3 to 4 to maybe even 5 hours, but just out of habit I smoked way more than that. Thanks again for sharing.
 

JoAnna1010

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
May 15, 2009
95
1
Knoxville TN, USA
Just wanted to update you all on my Tobac Alert Test results.

I FINALLY received my 5-pack test kits early this week. I ordered them directly from the company and they took forever to ship it to me. At least it was a lot cheaper than buying it from Drugstore.com.

Anyway, I performed my "baseline" test. I got a 66, the highest level. I had been smoking 3-4 analogs a day along with lots of vaping using various medium - high eliquids.

Then, 4 days later, I performed another test. This time, I had only smoked ecigs for the preceeding 3 days. Again I got a 66.

So...now, I am waiting for about 2 weeks until after I get back from a trip to see my family. (Believe me!!! I will need all the nicotine I can get for this trip!!!) At that point, I am going to smoke only Zero nic ecig liquid for 3 days. Then I will perform another test to see how much my nicotine (cotinine) level has dropped down.

I guess the results of my tests so far show me that I was getting a lot of nicotine from analogs and ecigs. And....that when I only smoked the ecig....I was getting the same amount of nicotine levels.


While this is good and explains why I am not having the "nicotine twitches" using ecigs, I hope to eventually start to withdraw from nicotine dependence alltogether by using lower nic and zero nic. It's obvious, I'll have to work on that one !!

Anyway, just wanted to update you on the Tobac Alert test results we had been discussing a week or so ago. Will get back to you all when I have the other test completed.
 

Kate51

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Mar 27, 2009
3,031
22
78
Argyle Wi USA
That's a huge discrepancy between the tests from my juice use and Joanna1010. I would want to hear more, guess we will have to wait until she's back from vacation, somethings seems very off, by at least 500ng/ml between the two, even with her small samples with PV/analog combination. She is going to do 2-3 more tests, later on, perhaps will see a difference. Her testing also differs from the Ruyan testing.

I do however feel ok with my testing results, and you can see the photos in post #78 they are difficult to see, so wondering if she had the same trouble. Need to talk further.

I have just ordered another test kit, will re-check for verification purposes.
 
Last edited:

gpdo24

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 1, 2009
155
14
New York, New York
Okay, now I understand. I wasn't sure if you had explained where the info came from and I missed it or what. This should be interesting because even though I got my first e-cig basically just to keep from fighting with ashes and such while I'm working on the computer, I ended up smoking this all the time by accident (basically the very first day). I wasn't necessarily planning to quit smoking. My first thought would have been that I'm getting far more nicotine than before, but at this point I really don't think that's true. Now if someone could just figure out why it was so easy to switch...

YES! For me that is THE question....
Curious, Interested,Grateful,Leary,Thrilled,Vested,Addicted and more. The more we can know the better! I hope:pop:

Mike

Truth be told I always Enjoy a Kreel post. Don't always agree:evil:.... don't think so.
 

Tom09

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Feb 22, 2009
504
125
Germany
Thanks for the update, JoAnna! Another very interesting result. Just when I thought that one has to vape intensively xx-high to max-out the test... So, this was achieved with medium-high liquid vaping? Could you add some estimate on your mileage? May not have been the same amount of cotinine (the proxy for delivered nicotine) from vaping and analogs, since highest test level is anything above the cutoff (> 1000 ng/ml). But certainly appears to be effective vaping.

Seems there can be much variation for different individuals. Just compare some graph, randomly picked from a scientific study, showing smoking habit and cotinine in urine concentrations [ng/ml] of 128 test subjects. Graph for illustration, not meant to be authoritative, here. While there is a dose dependence for the average, not everyone is the average, as reflected by the large error bars. Damn, I really thought this would turn out to be simple! :)

tom09-albums-test-picture1924-ziegler-ea-2004.jpg
Source: Ziegler et al. (2004): Clinical Correlation between the Consumption of Nicotine and Cotinine Concentrations etc., Pharmacology 72:254–259.

I’m by no means an expert in biology or medicine. I just find the question of actual nicotine delivery from vaping personally interesting and highly important. And while we keep speculating, I‘d certainly prefer to read some professional expert’s informed opinion... But looking from my laymen’s perspective, I think that all results from the home tests (as gratefully posted by Minimike, Kate51, JoAnna1010) are (1.) internally consistent and (2.) do support the prevailing notion from user experiences and the first reports of the Laugesen/Ruyan-team, suggesting that vaping is significantly less effective for nicotine delivery than analog smoking.

It has to be noted that the Nymox home test appears to come with a relatively low cutoff (equivalent to 1000 ng/ml cotinine in urine, according to the simplistic product flyers). Most moderate smokers of 10-19 cigarettes per day would score the highest level, score above the 1000 ng/ml cutoff (see the illustrating graph above). Moreover, reading from this illustrating graph, even some occasional to light smokers would score above this cutoff. Just don’t bash JoAnna for her personal body functions, individually different for every one :).
Nevertheless, a value of 200-500 ng/ml reported from someone (Kate51) who - by all means - reported constantly vaping 24 mg strength (and so I’d guess runs > 2 ml/day) IS a bench. There is not much chance that a one-pack-a-day smoker would return such a low cotinine level. But certainly, more testing and professional, better informed opinions are needed.
 

Attachments

  • Ziegler ea 2004.jpg
    Ziegler ea 2004.jpg
    18.5 KB · Views: 14

TropicalBob

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jan 13, 2008
5,623
65
Port Charlotte, FL USA
This seems to verify what other studies have concluded: A user of medium strength nicotine would take in what a smoker of 10 cigarettes a day would ingest. Personally, that's not enough for me, a former 30-a-day smoker. I have to resort to snus, dissolvables, nasal snuff and a pipe.

My body certainly told me that long ago. I cannot get enough nicotine from e-liquid vapor. But we are all different, and some might be completely satisfied with e-smoking.

This DOES prove that any e-smoker will flunk a company test to separate smoking and non-smoking employees for hiring or insurance purposes. Those "smoking" tests are really nicotine tests, and e-smoking is just another way to fail them.

When asked "are you a smoker?" the test answer is "yes", no matter your protestations.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread