I liked your post, but I'm not sure we agree who's on what side of the picture.
But art is subject to interpretation.
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I liked your post, but I'm not sure we agree who's on what side of the picture.
But art is subject to interpretation.
Generating profit in itself is not immoral. Generating profit by unethical means is immoral. There's a difference. You fail to see that difference.
And scarcity is artificially inflated when profiteers buy limited stock in order to turn that artificially increased scarcity into personal profit.
The fact of the matter is that there is a contract. An agreement. There is no such agreement in a profiteering situation.
Yeah, you're wrong. This one believes it very much. Anti-competitive practices and price gouging are very much illegal in the US.
And again, the company that makes the bread has an agreement regarding how it is sold. I would have no such agreement. I would be profiting from their efforts with no responsibilities toward them.
Actually I did. I wanted a mini so I stayed up for the sale. I saw how poorly it was going and wanted to give those who were Zenesis-less (I have a standard) a better shot at getting one in a reasonable amount of time since I already knew within the first 5 minutes that I would not be one of those people. So I left the sale site and hopped on the forums until the drama was over. The vast majority of people that night were not actually trying to get a Zenesis. They thought they were, but they weren't because they don't understand how web servers operate. What they were actually doing was making the task of getting through the checkout process impossible for the first 100 people who made it there. Those first 100 were the only people who were ever going to make it through...the other 500+ were just wasting bandwidth and clogging up the tubes as it were.
That's obviously not true in the slightest. The are numerous transactions between 2 people where attaching morality is perfectly legitimate. Contract killing for instance. Having diamond mines produce far less than they are able in order to keep the price of diamonds artificially high (this is what De Beers Corp does) is another example. As an aside: brutal dictators in Africa are able to pay for their weapons of oppression on the black market using "blood diamonds" which are much less rare in their countries than the world market dominated by De Beers would lead you to believe yet are still artificially over-valued due to the artificial scarcity created by De Beers. The more you know.
Look, we disagree. That's fine. It's a staple of humanity. It do not blame the buyer of an inflated product. I think they are silly and impatient, but if they feel it's worth their money then so be it. I do despise the profiteer. They are taking a less than ideal situation, making it worse and then using that to make a profit. That's a darker side of humanity than I am able to readily accept.
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Lol. Good one, Ripple. Mind you, Ripple, I never carry my gun with me, even concealed. I bought mine strictly for the range. Being from Brazil, I already had both, knives and guns pointed at me. Trust me, if I ever pulled a gun to stop myself from getting robbed I probably would have got shot by the cops down there. Guns are strictly prohibited in Brazil.
very nice.. i'm more into the Pre 2004 slides tho.
My primary issue with buying and reselling, is that I don't think that someone who put no work or effort (sorry, waiting on a "list" is NOT effort, aside from the 15 seconds it takes to actually PM or respond to a forum post and put your name at the end of it) should make money at the EXPENSE of someone who legitimately wants to use and keep the product. I'm fine with someone making legitimate money off of their:
-intelligence (and no, "herp derp, I know this will be in demand and I can resell" isn't intelligence. This could easily be figured out by someone with an IQ of 80). You're not a financial wizard for figuring this one out.
-effort
-time
I know, I know, this is against the very foundation that this country was built upon. But guess what? This thread ain't America, and reselling scumbags ain't a legitimate business, either. Are they paying taxes on their "hard earned" money? Yeah, I'm sure they are.
But, when this argument comes up, it basically comes down to what your personal definition of what this thread and this forum are. Personally, I consider this a community (oh no, I almost said the "c-word"... communism) and not a free-market capitalist economy (with the exception of the registered suppliers). Are you a registered supplier, or part of the community? My guess is that NONE of these LOWLIFES reselling at high value are registered suppliers, so that makes them part of the community, and the community shouldn't behave like that, in my opinion.
The keyword in that last paragraph is "opinion". And in the end, we're all allowed to have them. You can be of the opinion that price-gouging is OK, and I'll be of the opinion that price-gouging is for no skill, low morality bottom feeders who can't figure out how to make more money in the actual free-market economy.
edit: Who1s - I wanted to clarify that my use of "you" in this context is a mixed bag, and overall it's pretty poorly written. A lot of times I used the second person perspective while meaning "you price-gouging resellers" and sometimes I really meant it as "you".
-intelligence (and no, "herp derp, I know this will be in demand and I can resell" isn't intelligence. This could easily be figured out by someone with an IQ of 80). You're not a financial wizard for figuring this one out.
-effort
-time
I know, I know, this is against the very foundation that this country was built upon. But guess what? This thread ain't America, and reselling scumbags ain't a legitimate business, either. Are they paying taxes on their "hard earned" money? Yeah, I'm sure they are.
But, when this argument comes up, it basically comes down to what your personal definition of what this thread and this forum are. Personally, I consider this a community (oh no, I almost said the "c-word"... communism) and not a free-market capitalist economy (with the exception of the registered suppliers). Are you a registered supplier, or part of the community? My guess is that NONE of these LOWLIFES reselling at high value are registered suppliers, so that makes them part of the community, and the community shouldn't behave like that, in my opinion.
The keyword in that last paragraph is "opinion". And in the end, we're all allowed to have them. You can be of the opinion that price-gouging is OK, and I'll be of the opinion that price-gouging is for no skill, low morality bottom feeders who can't figure out how to make more money in the actual free-market economy.
edit: Who1s - I wanted to clarify that my use of "you" in this context is a mixed bag, and overall it's pretty poorly written. A lot of times I used the second person perspective while meaning "you price-gouging resellers" and sometimes I really meant it as "you".
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I guess everyone has an opinion on reselling, for right or wrong when someone sells something at a 300% markup does the vendor get a but? Nope! 200% ? Nope! If people want vendors to keep stuff reasonably priced and not see that people are and WILL pay a LOT more for stuff is it right to resell something at a huge inflated price? I guess each person will decide that for themselves but in the end if people wanna keep paying $400 for something that retails for say $100 sooner or later a vendor might say "Why then am I still selling this at $100 when i could make $300 more profit off each and every person that wants one of _______ so badly, how dumb am I for not doing just that". Thankfully this is not the case with things yet (and I have seen something sell for way more than that in the markup%) but eventually what is left for you that really really wanted something that you had to be PATIENT for? It isnt worth fighting this out here among yourselves because honestly the people that are doing it do not CARE that you are impatient and just want it now, if people continue to pay the prices it will continue to happen.
<steps off soapbox>
<steps off soapbox>
I liked the Walmart analogy above, but I think this example would be more appropriate:
You see a television ad for a widget that looks like it would provide you with a lot of enjoyment. You drive up to Walmart to purchase the item and head to the department that carries it. Oh no! There's only 3 or 4 of them left. Well, no problem - you reach your hand out to pick one of the last remaining items off the shelf, when out of nowhere, this guy darts in front of you knocking your hand out of the way with his body. He snatches up the last 3 or 4 remaining stock of the item you came all this way to pick up, runs over to a cashier and pays for the items. Downtrodden - you make your way to the exit and walk out of Walmart. As soon as you exit the store, that same guy comes up to you and says "HEY, I SAW YOU WANTED ONE OF THESE ITEMS IN THE STORE. TOO BAD THEY'RE OUT LOL. WELL TODAY IS YOUR LUCKY DAY, I HAPPEN TO HAVE THE VERY SAME ITEM YOU WANTED. IT'S YOURS FOR ONLY (200% of the walmart of the price)."
How often do you see that happening in real life? NOT AT ALL, because Walmart wouldn't let that person hang out on their doorstep for more than 5 minutes, and they probably wouldn't be welcome back to the store again. I'm sure that this happens on craiglist or other areas that people can get away with shady behavior - but that's exactly what it is. Shady behavior.
Would you stand up for that person's rights to exist in a free-market economy?
You see a television ad for a widget that looks like it would provide you with a lot of enjoyment. You drive up to Walmart to purchase the item and head to the department that carries it. Oh no! There's only 3 or 4 of them left. Well, no problem - you reach your hand out to pick one of the last remaining items off the shelf, when out of nowhere, this guy darts in front of you knocking your hand out of the way with his body. He snatches up the last 3 or 4 remaining stock of the item you came all this way to pick up, runs over to a cashier and pays for the items. Downtrodden - you make your way to the exit and walk out of Walmart. As soon as you exit the store, that same guy comes up to you and says "HEY, I SAW YOU WANTED ONE OF THESE ITEMS IN THE STORE. TOO BAD THEY'RE OUT LOL. WELL TODAY IS YOUR LUCKY DAY, I HAPPEN TO HAVE THE VERY SAME ITEM YOU WANTED. IT'S YOURS FOR ONLY (200% of the walmart of the price)."
How often do you see that happening in real life? NOT AT ALL, because Walmart wouldn't let that person hang out on their doorstep for more than 5 minutes, and they probably wouldn't be welcome back to the store again. I'm sure that this happens on craiglist or other areas that people can get away with shady behavior - but that's exactly what it is. Shady behavior.
Would you stand up for that person's rights to exist in a free-market economy?
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Same here, unless it's a thread I've participated in in which case i can just hit the "participated" tab on the top right.
I've been searching for the DIY coffee thread..(grind the beans , nuke em, seive for days , etc) but have had no luck. I can use the laptop again later though and will put forth greater effort.
Just vape it!
I clicked on that darn thing too LOL I need to learn to NOT CLICK LINKS!
damn, i was trying so hard not to see that trollalala watchamacallit thread. you just had to do it now didn't ya, T-MAC
Can you only make your point with ad hominem attacks?
WHY ...do you care what 2 people decide in private as your business?
WHO ... are you to judge them? Did you create a product? If you judging them only stops newcomers from wanting the product, then who are you helping?
WHAT ... possible benefit is it to the newcomer to be berated and belabored the point for having purchased a Zenesis for more money?
WHERE ... do you get off judging people who don't agree with your PollyAnna & Rose Colored view of reality? More importantly how does this help potential customers? Does this alienate and ostracize them or bring them closer?
WHEN ... is your opinion necessary regarding a transaction between to people who agree to do business? Does it increase sales for Zen? What if your statements just alienate newcomers from even wanting a Zenesis?
If you saw my INBOX right now with all the PM's I have been getting from newcomers you would know why I am not easily swayed by these feckless arguments.
The bottom line is that harboring a hostile enviroment in this thread is offputting to future customers. I know this because I didn't pursue a GG for the same reason. I am saddened to see this thread go far deeper into a religious cult then even the GG thread ever did.
If they drink the KoolAid, it's now apparent to me that Zenfidels are mixing it and selling it to them.
I'm done... with this thread. I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore.
It's figurative, but it's true.
This false modesty, brown-nosing, religious cult-like, two-faced BS is not worth my time.
You win, I'm wrong and your right.
What do I know? I'm just the voice of reason.
I'm Audi 5000
^^ New comers like me have a very hard time getting in. There are not a whole lot of options to get one other than stalk this thread and hope some one will sell at a reasonable price. Sure, I want one, and I am willing to pay the price some one bought it at or a may be a few bucks more, but not the $150 markup that seems to be the minimum that I have seen.
There are a lot of people willing to pay that price to add one to their collection though.
There are a lot of people willing to pay that price to add one to their collection though.
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