Houston, we have a problem...BE nic titration results

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mgordon1100

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However, how does one stay in business by selling stronger! I just can't wrap my head around this! It can't be a motive of greed and testing can't be that costly! (can it?) Is this truly just a case of pure laziness?

Either way, I'm glad I've never purchased nic from BE.

In my opinion, it was a mistake. It wasn't done on purpose with malintent. As far as we know, nobody got hurt. For me, I'm not worried about receiving nic like this. I'm pretty sure I'd be able to tell if something is wrong. I think the larger issue is the way they handled it upon first receiving the news. We'll see tonight what they have to say now, but they should have taken the people's word for it.
 

lynleestar

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We are talking about DIY folks here, right? Just like when you DIY fix your washing machine, you took responsibility for what happens. It might be just fine, but it might short out and kill your kid. You might not like it, but you pretty much own the responsibility.

I'm skipping over 20 pages here, so if this has already been brought up I apologize.

DIY is a big past of the BE nic, but we're also talking about many, many juice vendors buying their nic from BE that they use to mix the juice that we buy. I only have a few suppliers I buy juice from, but I plan on inquiring to them to find out where they purchase their nic.
 
i think they assumed wrong when they thought they only received 100mg nick and their supplier botched it up before it even got to them. all the more reason they should be testing their incoming nic and not be so trusting.

That's a big assumption! And it doesn't explain why some liquids were lower and some higher. And they said they tested the incoming liquid (and that they diluted it to 100mg). Pity they didnt also sample test the outgoing liquid.

+++

Hopefully the chief will know by now what went wrong, will be open about it, recall any higher-nic batches and explain the new measures being put into place to avoid a repetition.
 
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mgordon1100

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I wouldn't feel good about receiving 270mg class nic. Sure, not intentional, but that is a heck of a bad mistake. 170% higher than listed is just plain nsat

Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't feel good about it. I'd have to get it properly tested to find out what I have. In the long run, I'd be set for a long time, but it would be a hassle getting there, and the possibility for someone to get hurt is out there. I'm just saying that I'd know about it right away. If my nose was off and I didn't smell it, I would sure know once I took the first puff.
 

GoodDog

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Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't feel good about it. I'd have to get it properly tested to find out what I have. In the long run, I'd be set for a long time, but it would be a hassle getting there, and the possibility for someone to get hurt is out there. I'm just saying that I'd know about it right away. If my nose was off and I didn't smell it, I would sure know once I took the first puff.

So why didn't they notice it? They have even more experience working with nicotine than you.
 
Luckily high nic has an effect that is hard to miss. But this could have been dangerous via a spill and prolonged skin contact or, worse, a leaky cart; nubies would be particularly at risk. I hope they identify customers of the high nic batch and issue a recall or at least a warning.

Getting e-liquid in the throat can be a frightening expereince, even at 30mg.
 
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tybin

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afrazier5

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Just got this in from BE:

Hello Everyone,

Due to recent independent titration analyses we have decided to reveal our own internal methods of testing and quality control as well as our own independent analysis of liquids that have been diluted before they have arrived at our distribution facility. As I have stated before, we dilute pure nicotine down to just over 10% strength before it arrives at our distribution facility. At that point we have an independent GC/MS done to give us an accurate reading of the product ingredients and strengths. The diluted product comes in at about 11 to 13% in strength. We then we do a final adjustment to bring the product to an actual 10% strength. The reason for this is "if the product were to come in weaker than the target 10%", we would have no way of increasing the strength due to the fact that we only work with 10% strength or lower in the distribution facility.

We admit that mistakes could be made in labeling which could result in a product labeled as 48 mg/ml strength and actually be 100 mg/ml. Even a mistake like this could be dangerous and if we have made this type of mistake then all we could do is offer our humblest apologies and / or a replacement product. A product that is testing at at 272 mg/ml and labeled at 100 mg/ml is more than dangerous, it could be deadly. In all of our analyses (internal or independent) over the last two years we have never received a diluted batch for testing that was over 14%. We test every diluted batch and we will now post the latest independent tests online every time a new batch is run.

For clarity we will label each independent test that will match a lot number on every bottle that goes out.

Furthermore on some occasions we may run out of nicotine during a big sale at which point we may use products from other US vendors. Due to this we will also be posting random independent tests on other US vendors as well.

Please look for our current independent GC/MS reports at http://www.boxelderchemicalsupply.com/110811pgtest.pdf

With that being said, we feel that this issue is starting to appear more like a smear campaign against our company and less like a valid scientific exploration of the products we all use and vape. We appreciate the support from all of our customers and assure you all that we are extremely confident in our own internal safety procedures as well as the credibility of our independent testing labs and the quality of US vendors that we may utilize from time to time. So confident that I am willing to sign my name to this message and not hide behind an obscure username on a forum or the posting of a forum user that has never returned to respond to an original post.

Due to the fact that an unscrupulous company or individual could easily take our labeled product and increase or decrease the strength in an effort to disparage our hard earned name and reputation, we will be converting to a tamper resistant bottle for all of our nicotine products and we will only be responding to forum posted tests from credible laboratory testing facilities that will verify that they received what appears to be an un-opened un-tampered bottle of our product. We will not be responding to chemistry students who possibly are on the correct and intelligent path towards testing a given substance but who may also be unknowingly party to the destruction of one company for the benefit of another.

We realize that there are many issues associated with this business and we want to do our part to provide a new level of transparency to this whole industry.

Sincerely,


Brad Bacher
Box Elder Chemical Supply
888-962-5877
 

ScottB

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i think they assumed wrong when they thought they only received 100mg nick and their supplier botched it up before it even got to them. all the more reason they should be testing their incoming nic and not be so trusting.

Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't feel good about it. I'd have to get it properly tested to find out what I have. In the long run, I'd be set for a long time, but it would be a hassle getting there, and the possibility for someone to get hurt is out there. I'm just saying that I'd know about it right away. If my nose was off and I didn't smell it, I would sure know once I took the first puff.

I apparently read this differently than most...

Excerpted from the infamous email (posted previously)

The 100 mg/ml strength version of this product contains:
10% L-Nicotine sourced from a reputable supplier in china. (Purity level 99.35%.)
90% USP Grade Propylene Glycol or USP Grade Vegetable Glycerin from a reputable supplier in the USA.
These are rough percentages by volume.

<snip>

We can assure you that our product is the correct strength of nicotine due to the fact that for safety reasons we dilute our pure nicotine to 100 mg/ml strength before it ever enters our distribution facility. The reason for this is twofold. The first is to ensure the safety of our crew, the second, for the safety of our customers.

Due to the expense of nicotine, any discrepancy in an initial dilution would be recognized as product entered our distribution facility. For example if a dilution were incorrect, we would receive a much smaller amount of our most expensive component.
Due to the large volume that we distribute, and the fact that we do a "50% off" sale about every 45 days, one could conclude that we would not be able to stay in business longer than a few weeks if we were sending out product that was 2.5 times stronger than it was labeled, and at half the price.

<snip>

This reads to me that BE starts with pure nicotine and PG or VG in their mixing/handling facility. The pure nicotine is diluted to 100 mg/ml in this BE facility. Quite likely all dilutions to any strength occur in said BE facility. Only after this dilution & packaging is it moved to BE's distribution facility. Once there, the caps never come off the bottles until they reach the purchaser.

Pardon me if this seems nitpicky - and it is only speculation. But my brief synopsis is a rewrite of what's in the email. If I'm correct, the mistake occurred in the mixing/handling facility - which by inference would be set up with hoods, as well as all other safety requirements. There would be no place downstream in their operation to notice the mistake without purposeful testing.

Just trying to get everyone on the same page as to what they're imagining the process to be. This issue begins & ends with BE. Their (BE's) supplier supplies them with pure nicotine (well... 99% pure). BE performs the dilution.

And Thanks Kurt!
 
... we will now post the latest independent tests online every time a new batch is run.

For clarity we will label each independent test that will match a lot number on every bottle that goes out.

Furthermore on some occasions we may run out of nicotine during a big sale at which point we may use products from other US vendors. Due to this we will also be posting random independent tests on other US vendors as well.

Please look for our current independent GC/MS reports at http://www.boxelderchemicalsupply.com/110811pgtest.pdf

... we will be converting to a tamper resistant bottle for all of our nicotine products ...

We realize that there are many issues associated with this business and we want to do our part to provide a new level of transparency to this whole industry.

While the mail is lacking in some ways, it is good to see these positive steps about to be taken, and the commitment to quality within the industry.
 
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Just trying to get everyone on the same page as to what they're imagining the process to be. This issue begins & ends with BE. Their (BE's) supplier supplies them with pure nicotine (well... 99% pure). BE performs the dilution.

And Thanks Kurt!

Agreed.

It's ambiguous, but it is looking increasingly like by 'pure nicotine' he means 100% nicotine rather than some lower percentage but at high purity.
 
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