Houston, we have a problem...BE nic titration results

[tmcase]

Thanx, I thought of that. But I also think it needs to be within this thread due to new traffic. This is the third time it has appeared thus far.

Whatever the participants think is best, I'll gladly comply.

I think keeping it within the tread is best. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Katya]

Help us keep it bumped and put the word out there Katya That will work I think. Most folks are looking at this thread for info.

My pleasure.

 

[Kurt]

Now that scares me, my VG NIC is lot 257 and it smells way too strong for only 36mg... Glad I have 120ml of 100mg from RTS on the way... Picture of my VG nic below.

THAT is BE 36 mg?? Please PM me. It is, from the look of the pic, too dark for BE 36 mg. It should look like water. And have very little scent.

 

[Katya]

VapeTV was very good. I think we all agreed that Brad came up very very short on many concerning levels, but that what is important is to make sure the community can protect themselves, so the ebay kit was shown, and I talked about general ways to recognize the really high nic: amber, really strong smell, when even up to 121 mg is not particularly strong in smell. And of course the two lot numbers currently found to be too high: 256 and 257.

I really want to thank everyone for being so supportive. I cannot tell you how good it feels, and how much it means. People are actually donating, and from other countries now! People I don't even know! Truly I am blessed to be in such a community. This ride is just getting started, but it already, in about 48 hours, taking things to a much better place for all of us. Thank you all again.

Ok, back to work...

You're doing God's work here, Kurt.

 

[kinabaloo]

Sounds like it is all or most of items in those batches that are affected. BE really does need to do a recall - urgently.

It should be all, for that's what 'batch' means - all from the same mix/production run. Who knows how many that would be; but a lot.

They must know themselves by now from returns that there is a BIG problem.

And what of the sample tests for this batch ??? One has to assume either that they were not done, or botched.

This almost 10x what most most people normally vape !

The forums should post a newsflash popup that must be dismissed so noone here will miss it. Ans similarly all other related websites - hopefully that can reach a fair proportion of users. But many others will depend on BE to contact them.

People really are at risk from 200mg liquid, especially newbies and especially users of carts (most likely newbies) - get that liquid in the mouth and it could be nasty (if you haven't had that throat tightening, suffocating effect, trust me it's bad, and that's much lower mg).

 

[davelog]

My bottle doesn't have a lot number on it that I can see. It's certainly not in the place where grazia's is. Hmm.

 

[mauzey]

You have a pH meter? How many places past the decimal?

Kurt, I don't have one yet, and if you tell me how many places past the Decimal I need, I will get one in few days.

Thanks again.

 

[Kurt]

Sounds like it is all or most of items in those batches that are affected. BE really does need to do a recall - urgently.

It should be all, for that's what 'batch' means - all from the same mix/production run. Who knows how many that would be; but a lot.

They must know themselves by now from returns that there is a BIG problem.

And what of the sample tests for this batch ??? One has to assume either that they were not done, or botched.

This almost 10x what most most people normally vape !

The forums should post a newsflash popup that must be dismissed so noone here will miss it. Ans similarly all other related websites - hopefully that can reach a fair proportion of users. But many others will depend on BE to contact them.

The 272 mg? I think this is actually their base that they make the 100 mg and lower from. I stated this on cozzicon's show last night with Brad, and he agreed. More contradictions about the processing at BE. They just kept piling up.

 

[tmcase]

My bottle doesn't have a lot number on it that I can see. It's certainly not in the place where grazia's is. Hmm.

That's not good. Mine didn't have a lot # either but there was a CAS# whatever that is and I don't see that on your bottle. They need to get rid of their new label printer.

 

[grazia15]

My bottle doesn't have a lot number on it that I can see. It's certainly not in the place where grazia's is. Hmm.

Mine also has a discrepancy on the ID#, yours says 250048PG and it is 250ml of 48mg PG. Mine says 250100VG and it is 500ml 36mg VG. THIS IS SCARY!!!

 

[kinabaloo]

The 272 mg? I think this is actually their base that they make the 100 mg and lower from. I stated this on cozzicon's show last night with Brad, and he agreed. More contradictions about the processing at BE. They just kept piling up.

So the first dilution is to ~270 (just over 1/4 strength). When just yesterday it was emphatically just over 100mg and higher was 'impossible' and anyone who said otherwise was 'a student' or a 'dirty tricks agent'.

I really hoped for responsible action in the beginning, but it's looking even worse ... This is by far the baddest thing to hit vaping, ever.

 

[6pointprime]

I think that Coz conducted an extremely professional interview in a fair and unbiased manner.

I did contact both Kurt and Brad to see if they wanted to come on my show last night to talk about this situation. Brad said that he would send me an email statement (he never did) and Kurt said that he was too busy. At first I was disappointed, but it turned out to be a good thing because we learned much more by this interview being done by Coz.

I'm glad that the interview happened on VapeTV, for two reasons. First, I think that Coz has better interviewing skills than me, and he probably got more information out of Brad that I might have been able to. Second, I think everybody learned a lot from the comments made in the chat room by Lu, Violet, and Blacksmith Pro, which would not have happened if the interview was on my show.

It is obvious that Lu, Violet, and BSP continued to defend Brad and berate other viewers who were coming down hard on Brad in the chat room because he is a VapeTV advertiser. Their reaction to this situation, and his comments, would have been much different if he were not a VapeTV advertiser.

I was on the fence as to wether Box Elder really did have any responsibility for dangerous eliquid being sent out. My comments on my show last night are on the record, and I said as much. After listening to Coz's show, my opinion has changed.

It's very clear to me now that there are some big problems with Box Elder. He admitted to sending out eliquid with the wrong nicotine level. Even with that admission, Lu, Violet, and BSP continued to defend Brad again and again and berate people making comments against Brad. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that they defended him because Brad is an advertiser on VapeTV. It's disgusting. We're not talking about a mod or a cartomizer here - this is potentially lethal eliquid.

It's obvious to me that Box Elder is responsible for shipping out extremely dangerous product, and it's obvious that Lu, Violet, and BSP defended Brad because Brad gives VapeTV money for advertising. Anyone who thinks that their reaction to this news would have been the same if Brad were not a VapeTV advertiser is living in a fantasy world. Defending their advertiser is more important to VapeTV than stating the truth about an irresponsible vendor.

I used to be a VapeTV host, and I would give away products that I liked. I gave away mods and cartomizers and eliquid that I enjoyed using. One day Lu said that I was no longer allowed to do this, and that I would only be allowed to give away products from VapeTV advertisers. So most of the time I was stuck with giving away bottles of Gourmet Vapor eliquid.

I just realized that Lu gave me a bag of eliquid and a VapeTV sticker to give away but that never happened because they kicked me off VapeTV.

Anyone want it?

Actually, nevermind, I just gave it to the NYC Department of Sanitation.

Russ, I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with every word you posted in the above post. It makes me sad. I was telling everyone the "defensive dream team" was disgusting. I have to honestly say, I'm still shocked.

I agree, Gina, it was disgusting and shocking they way they acted. Hopefully Lu, Violet, and Blacksmith Pro can learn from this and put community interests ahead of advertising sales.

 

[Kurt]

Kurt, I don't have one yet, and if you tell me how many places past the Decimal I need, I will get one in few days.

Thanks again.

Ideally 3 ppd. But you can't just dip in a batch. You have to make an aqueous dilution, since pH is a water property, not a PG or VG property. Then you have to know the math. You really should have a good college ceneral chemistry text, like Zumdahl or Chang, but this will get you started...although its not presented in a clear step by step way:

Weak base - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

get pH, solve for pOH, then use Kb expression to solve for [Nic] in the diluted sample, then M1V1 = M2V2 to get the moles of Nic in the original volume you diluted, then 162 g/mol to get the grams and then mg/mL. You can do it all in a spreadsheet, which is what I do. But, as you can see, without knowing the equilibrium chemistry, just pH will not be useful.

 

[kinabaloo]

Ideally 3 ppd. But you can't just dip in a batch. You have to make an aqueous dilution, since pH is a water property, not a PG or VG property. Then you have to know the math. You really should have a good college ceneral chemistry text, like Zumdahl or Chang, but this will get you started...although its not presented in a clear step by step way:

Weak base - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

get pH, solve for pOH, then use Kb expression to solve for [Nic] in the diluted sample, then M1V1 = M2V2 to get the moles of Nic in the original volume you diluted, then 162 g/mol to get the grams and then mg/mL. You can do it all in a spreadsheet, which is what I do. But, as you can see, without knowing the equilibrium chemistry, just pH will not be useful.

Mauzey - i'd get that BB / acid ebay kit

Should get you within 10% or so.

 

[davelog]

Mine also has a discrepancy on the ID#, yours says 250048PG and it is 250ml of 48mg PG. Mine says 250100VG and it is 500ml 36mg VG. THIS IS SCARY!!!

I noticed that the first time you posted your label, but missed the lot number placement. No doubt a result of the switch in labellers.

 

[Kurt]

So the first dilution is to ~270 (just over 1/4 strength). When just yesterday it was emphatically just over 100mg and higher was 'impossible' and anyone who said otherwise was 'a student' or a 'dirty tricks agent'.

I really hoped for responsible action in the beginning, but it's looking even worse ... This is by far the baddest thing to hit vaping, ever.

Yes, I think I heard that someone said I was a student. Just makes me laugh. Desperation tends to make silly happen. Sometimes its the mother of invention, sometimes its the mother of stupid.

trust me, I feel not one speck of insult. Chemists are used to it. So few know it, and as I said, this is all freshman level stuff. I guess I could say its sad, but its actually nothing at all.

OTOH, Brad's investors are probably boiling him alive in 100 mg VG about now...

 

[LordDavon]

Is there a wiki somewhere listing all of the vendors tested, the results, and how the nic was obtained (donated, secret order, etc)? Having this type of information at our fingertips will not only allow us to better judge a vendor, but also make sure that vendors stick to standard testing, due to the exposure. I think just as important as getting the results, is putting them in front of everyone and making them easy to maintain.

If this isn't already available, we could always use WikiSpaces, WikiDot, Wiki-site or something, to get it started. Just let me know if you need any help.

 

[mauzey]

Ideally 3 ppd. But you can't just dip in a batch. You have to make an aqueous dilution, since pH is a water property, not a PG or VG property. Then you have to know the math. You really should have a good college ceneral chemistry text, like Zumdahl or Chang, but this will get you started...although its not presented in a clear step by step way:

Weak base - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


get pH, solve for pOH, then use Kb expression to solve for [Nic] in the diluted sample, then M1V1 = M2V2 to get the moles of Nic in the original volume you diluted, then 162 g/mol to get the grams and then mg/mL. You can do it all in a spreadsheet, which is what I do. But, as you can see, without knowing the equilibrium chemistry, just pH will not be useful.

Thanks Kurt, that's exactly what I needed to know, I can forget about getting a PH meter now ;-) I'm just a software developer

Thanks again for the help

 

[grazia15]

I would love to send you a sample of this bottle, Kurt. There is no way for me to test it here, I guess. I don't know any chemists and this kits sold on ebay don't ship overseas.

 

[grazia15]

I noticed that the first time you posted your label, but missed the lot number placement. No doubt a result of the switch in labellers.

Yes, I remember! I just wanted to make it clear to everyone in this topic.

SCARY!!!