Houston, we have a problem...BE nic titration results

[GoodDog]

If I had bought from BE and received one of their recent emails I would sure be replying to it with the results of Kurt's analysis. That would really P me off! I would really like to know how they plan on responding to this but I imagine it will be by calling their attorney tomorrow morning.

 

[GoodDog]

We are talking about DIY folks here, right? Just like when you DIY fix your washing machine, you took responsibility for what happens. It might be just fine, but it might short out and kill your kid. You might not like it, but you pretty much own the responsibility.

If it were shown that the part was faulty and you took all the proper precautions and followed instructions when installing it they would be at fault. Just like with BE, they're the experts and provide us with product based on their implied knowledge. They are liable!

 

[salemgold]

We are talking about DIY folks here, right? Just like when you DIY fix your washing machine, you took responsibility for what happens. It might be just fine, but it might short out and kill your kid. You might not like it, but you pretty much own the responsibility.

I am sorry but I disagree. What is being said here that we as consumers are just as responsible for the product that we buy as the vendor is if we pass it along. So to have the correct analogy your story would read like this.

I bought a faulty washer (faulty being unknown to me) the washer killed my kid. No I am not at fault here. We were not talking about folks making DIY juice and selling it. That would make them a vendor lol Then they would be responsible. Selling or trading the juice that we purchase does not make us responsible for what we purchased from a vendor. Bottom line.

 

[lynleestar]

wow.....just wow

 

[mgordon1100]

I think EVERYONE is completely missing my point here. My whole argument started because they were called criminal by someone. That's the complete basis for everything I've said. If you're responding to that, then you're not responding the the core. It all has to be taken into consideration. And if I can't be held responsible for selling Princess my ... crack liquid, then neither can anyone else who supplied me with the stuff.

 

[mj64]

If it were shown that the part was faulty and you took all the proper precautions and followed instructions when installing it they would be at fault. Just like with BE, they're the experts and provide us with product based on their implied knowledge. They are liable!

You are twisting my words. Is the word part in my statement?

 

[salemgold]

I think EVERYONE is completely missing my point here. My whole argument started because they were called criminal by someone. That's the complete basis for everything I've said. If you're responding to that, then you're not responding the the core. It all has to be taken into consideration. And if I can't be held responsible for selling Princess my ... crack liquid, then neither can anyone else who supplied me with the stuff.

Well I hope that you never buy a car with faulty brakes (unknown to you) and sell it to someone that has an accident and dies because that would be exactly the same thing. Selling a second hand item is selling a second hand item. So if that were the case we all better start throwing stuff away instead of selling it used on the off chance there may be a problem down the line somewhere.

 

[rkayw]

It is mind bogging to think about the possible ramifications of all of this, or the depth of them.

 

[mgordon1100]

[/B]

Well I hope that you never buy a car with faulty brakes (unknown to you) and sell it to someone that has an accident and dies because that would be exactly the same thing. Selling a second hand item is selling a second hand item. So if that were the case we all better start throwing stuff away instead of selling it used on the off chance there may be a problem down the line somewhere.

Thank you for proving my point. I've been saying all along that we are not criminal for anything. What's so hard to get about this?

 

[mj64]

I am sorry but I disagree. What is being said here that we as consumers are just as responsible for the product that we buy as the vendor is if we pass it along. So to have the correct analogy your story would read like this.

I bought a faulty washer (faulty being unknown to me) the washer killed my kid. No I am not at fault here. We were not talking about folks making DIY juice and selling it. That would make them a vendor lol Then they would be responsible. Selling or trading the juice that we purchase does not make us responsible for what we purchased from a vendor. Bottom line.

I don't believe anyone said just as responsible. I believe I said we had a share of the blame, as in hey, perhaps we haven't been very vigilant about our own safety when we could have been more so.

 

[Seabrook]

Okay, so to get back on topic here, what would be a solution?

1) never buy Box Elder nicotine - who wants China's anyway when we can get the best here.
2) test our nicotine base. Kurt says it can be off somewhat but still in the neighborhood.

Are those our only options?

ETA: I meant test it with one of those eBay home kits.

 

[GoodDog]

If we're buying from a chemical company we should feel assured that they have done due diligence to assure their product is as represented. I believe the responsibility falls solely on them. If I buy all beef hamburger it is not up to me to test it to be sure it truly is all beef, it's the responsibility of the processor that states it is.

 

[mgordon1100]

I've had McDonald's burgers, and I've made my own. Mine are good. McDonald's burgers look and taste like some kind of mush slurry once you start chewing. That's my test.

 

[Rodney Conforti]

So as I have believed from the begining and even more today. This (our) industry needs regulation, ouch I said it. I know it won't be perfect but atleast on whole us vapers can be assured of what we are buying. It saddens me to think it has come to this where an individual not paid to do testing can get results that merely can be deadly. I do not know or have any thoughts of what type of regulation would be best for all us, but I think these results just may be the catalyst to it.
This is only testing for nic I think we might be even more scared to see results of all these pop up companies selling e-liquid.
What sanitary conditions or lack of where the juice is being made.
So as stated before thanks for the eye opener.

 

[mj64]

Okay, so to get back on topic here, what would be a solution?

1) never buy Box Elder nicotine - who wants China's anyway when we can get the best here.
2) test our nicotine base. Kurt says it can be off somewhat but still in the neighborhood.

Are those our only options?

ETA: I meant test it with one of those eBay home kits.

Well, whats the problem? Because I don't think you'll necessarily have agreement on that.

Is it: How can we be sure that the nicotine concentration in our unflavored nic base is within a small margin of error what it is represented to be on the label?

 

[Shilo]

The nic stated on the bottle is not the nic's tested level, according to the testings posted- why all this obsession about one person saying the behavior was "criminal"? Would you like the word "unethical" better or "negligent" or "sloppy" or ? What word is ok to use when we are talking about something inhaled not being at the strength advertised?

 

[FreakyStylie]

Now I feel like a dolt in the fact that I believed that I was a consumer protected by the strict observance of weights and measures. If a gas company says 92 octane, they can't just slap that number on the tank, but rather calibrate the tools they use to measure the concentration. The same goes for ALL weights and measures ... if it doesn't here ... we're all effed.

As a simple consumer, I appreciate the efforts put into keeping me more safe! Thank you.


Accidentally sent when I sat on my phone.

 

[mj64]

The nic stated on the bottle is not the nic's tested level, according to the testings posted- why all this obsession about one person saying the behavior was "criminal"? Would you like the word "unethical" better or "negligent" or "sloppy" or ? What word is ok to use when we are talking about something inhaled not being at the strength advertised?

Rules and potentially libelous statements and the desire for the thread to remain open. Its not clear to me that such a statement will specifically break the rules or be libelous, but it has that potential.

 

[tybin]

yeah,i'd hate to see this thread get sidetracked into an argument about what word to use. What's more important is what we can all do about this information. night folks

 

[meatsneakers]

I'm just going to play devil's advocate here to keep people on the right track. Just which part is criminal? Is it the part where they sent out some highly concentrated nic liquid, or is the part where they sent out a letter stating that could not possibly happen?

Thing is, mistakes happen all the time. Some mistakes can have very unfortunate results, while others wont cause any harm to anyone. As far as we know, this mistake didn't hurt anyone, thank God. But, they do happen. If it were criminal that they made the mistake, then is it criminal that they bottled it wrong, or criminal that they didn't test?

As far as I can tell, none of the suppliers are testing, so every single one falls under the same scrutiny as BE. Is that what you're trying to say?

No, what I am saying is that this is indeed criminal. Gross negligence. Nicotine is a poison. Reasonably safe to handle by your average DIY enthusiast, with necessary precautions, at 100mg. Nearly 275mg/ml? Nope.