Houston, we have a problem...BE nic titration results

[Boodle]

1. Thank you, Kurt. Your time, skill and concern for the vaping community is greatly appreciated by this vaper.

2. I searched nic suppliers and read one glowing post after another about BE on ECF. That's why I chose them for my nic base when I started DIY. I thought I was being conscientious, doing my homework using the data gathered here to make a sound, informed buying decision. All this to say - the posts recommending BE should be deleted. ECF was ignorant, as we all were, to the issues with BE's nic but now we know that at least some of their nic products are unsafe. Mine was.

I'm suggesting that there are many DIY noobs like me 'out there' depending on the data gathered from ECF as their information resource. I received nic that made me sick. Had the juices tasted better I would have shared them with co-workers and family and could have unknowingly hurt others. Posts recommending BE should be scrubbed from the forum.

 

[tiburonfirst]

That would be good for them to do, but Kurt's results indicate that maybe, at best, two of the samples could have been mislabels (the ones that tested 48 and 51 mg/ml are close to 48mg). At least currently BE only seems to sell 36, 48, and 100 mg/ml -- is it credible that the other samples sent to Kurt are all from people out to cause BE harm?

since BE does not produce their own nic the most logical explanation seems to be that BE did not doublecheck their orders from the original suppliers.
in a way, that is understandable. when we ordered motor oil for truck maintenance we did not check what was pumped into our tanks. but i'm pretty sure our mechanic would have spotted a drastic difference in viscosity - and as kurt explained high nic concentration has a different look and smell to it.
so it comes down to a lack of qc at BE and we face that danger with most vendors. the solution? i have no idea. even with fda supervision we constantly read about recalls - most of the time after the damage has been done.

 

[tiburonfirst]

... sorry Dave, they receive pure nic from their suppliers, which they cut themselves (BE) and then send 115-130 mg to their distribution centres

ooops - didn't see that

 

[SooSpicey]

personally, i still trust and will order from BE.

i will not give in to what i feel is a smear campaign against this vendor. IMHO, this site is full of it and it is sickening.

 

[Harlequin69]

personally, i still trust and will order from BE.


i will not give in to what i feel is a smear campaign against this vendor. IMHO, this site is full of it and it is sickening.

Ok so you don't like the way this topic is being handled. How about Kurts results are you throwing them into question or would you be happy ordering 100mg and getting 48mg (best case scenario)?

Edit: added quote.

 

[rolygate]

@Boodle
I've looked for these threads and deleted / edited those I found. Any links to unregistered suppliers of materials of dubious quality should, as you suggest, be removed.

 

[swedishfish]

personally, i still trust and will order from BE.

i will not give in to what i feel is a smear campaign against this vendor. IMHO, this site is full of it and it is sickening.

I don't like to see a company smeared either. I saw this happen to another company that sold nicotine and it was pretty horrible to read. It seemed to come out of nowhere and the supplier was definitely attacked.

I don't think that was anyone's intent with this. The OP and a couple other people had a question regarding a purchase they made. They didn't get a response from BE and one of the members here stepped in and volunteered - hense the posts.

This is a lesson in how 'not' to run a business, or at least a lesson in how catastrophies could be avoided with some better customer service. The emails should have been adressed immediately and if mistakes were made- and mistakes do happen, rectify it. End of story.

I'm curious, don't you think the fact that someone got over 200 mg nicotine is a bit alarming?

I'm making juice for my 79 year old mother. True she can be a bit of a PITA sometimes, but I'd like to keep her around for a few more years.

This isn't just a whoopsie! It could really be a dangerous thing.

 

[mgordon1100]

personally, i still trust and will order from BE.

i will not give in to what i feel is a smear campaign against this vendor. IMHO, this site is full of it and it is sickening.

You realize, of course, that this kind of a post is going to get a slew of responses. It's like putting up a beacon for the enemy to start shooting at you. Anyhow, I'm not ready to fire just yet. But, your post here needs some clearing up.

Just about how many people do you think is involved with this smearing? You say it's all over the place here, but I don't see it that way. What I do see, is a lot of people frightened that they just might get some bad product. In the worst case can hurt someone, and in the best case they'll just get ripped off. This is the concern that most people have, as well as the way a well respected vendor handled the complaint from the beginning.

Back to the smearing. If there is some kind of conspiracy going on, and I'm not saying there is, it's only involving a few people. You'd have to believe that either Kurt wasn't on the up and up with his tests, or that the few people who sent him samples are fooling around. For purpose of this argument, I think we can rule out Kurt's own sample, as it was spot on. If by spot on you consider that they sent him good 48mg/ml mislabeled. I would rule him out of any wrong doing, because if he were trying to pull a fast one, he'd mess his own up in some other way than that. So, these few people that sent in samples DOES NOT make a whole forum of smear campaigners. IMHO.

Thank you.

 

[BeadyKate]

I applaud the OP for posting this. It made me look twice at my BE purchase. My bottle is from one of the test subjects same lot #. This weekend was the first time it was opened. It was in a cold dark place for months. I diluted it down to 18mg for a base used in my DIY. Wow. It was very strong. Made me light headed, and a bit dizzy. Now that being said, I have been vaping for a little over one year. Had many flavors and strengths of ejuice. I could not tell what that was. After reading through this whole thread and listening to the VapeTv cast, it became apparent that more investigation would be needed. No, it is not within my faculties to test this. But I will be willing to send it back to BE so they can. Just worried about vaping it, so it won't be vaped. Just to be on the safe side. I did call BE, and they will investigate my order. And hopefully get back to me. Mine was purchased through GV, and not BE. Am assuming they work together. Not trying to "bash" anyone. Just making my situation available for people to read. I mean, that's why I investigated my own bottle. Cause someone else brought this to my attention. We all have each other to rely on. And vaping is alot of "word of mouth". Look at all the mods and such. You watch my back, I'll watch yours. Thank you!

 

[AzPlumber]

You've got me curious, Plumber. What are you getting at?

I guess what I was trying to get at is the possibility of putting to rest any speculation of someone spiking a sample. If it can be determined that all of the nic in one sample was from the same pure nic batch, can you rule out any sort of conspiracy?

 

[BardicDruid]

Personally I'd PM Kurt and see if he could test it, BE seems to be trying to cover this up.

I applaud the OP for posting this. It made me look twice at my BE purchase. My bottle is from one of the test subjects same lot #. This weekend was the first time it was opened. It was in a cold dark place for months. I diluted it down to 18mg for a base used in my DIY. Wow. It was very strong. Made me light headed, and a bit dizzy. Now that being said, I have been vaping for a little over one year. Had many flavors and strengths of ejuice. I could not tell what that was. After reading through this whole thread and listening to the VapeTv cast, it became apparent that more investigation would be needed. No, it is not within my faculties to test this. But I will be willing to send it back to BE so they can. Just worried about vaping it, so it won't be vaped. Just to be on the safe side. I did call BE, and they will investigate my order. And hopefully get back to me. Mine was purchased through GV, and not BE. Am assuming they work together. Not trying to "bash" anyone. Just making my situation available for people to read. I mean, that's why I investigated my own bottle. Cause someone else brought this to my attention. We all have each other to rely on. And vaping is alot of "word of mouth". Look at all the mods and such. You watch my back, I'll watch yours. Thank you!

 

[carpedebass]

personally, i still trust and will order from BE.

i will not give in to what i feel is a smear campaign against this vendor. IMHO, this site is full of it and it is sickening.

 

[Xaria]

personally, i still trust and will order from BE.

i will not give in to what i feel is a smear campaign against this vendor. IMHO, this site is full of it and it is sickening.

I just wanted to let you know that it actually started with this thread

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/224197-boxelder-nic-feels-wayyyy-too-strong.html

I can see if one person was trying to discredit BE, but if you would look, it was quite a few people getting the same issue.

 

[mgordon1100]

I guess what I was trying to get at is the possibility of putting to rest any speculation of someone spiking a sample. If it can be determined that all of the nic in one sample was from the same pure nic batch, can you rule out any sort of conspiracy?

Oh, OK. I see, as already said, maybe a forensics team can do it. It seems to me, that if it is possible, samples would have to be investigated on the molecular level. Mind you, I don't have any knowledge of this whatsoever, but my gut says that it can't be done. I think nic is nic, and spiked nicquid would all be well combined. If it could be separated, then tests would probably have to be run on all the different sources for identification. All this alone would make it impossible for anyone to perform this analyzation without proper resources. Like I said, it's just my gut feeling. I'm responding because I found it interesting, you asking that question.

 

[6pointprime]

I think that Coz conducted an extremely professional interview in a fair and unbiased manner.

I did contact both Kurt and Brad to see if they wanted to come on my show last night to talk about this situation. Brad said that he would send me an email statement (he never did) and Kurt said that he was too busy. At first I was disappointed, but it turned out to be a good thing because we learned much more by this interview being done by Coz.

I'm glad that the interview happened on VapeTV, for two reasons. First, I think that Coz has better interviewing skills than me, and he probably got more information out of Brad that I might have been able to. Second, I think everybody learned a lot from the comments made in the chat room by Lu, Violet, and Blacksmith Pro, which would not have happened if the interview was on my show.

It is obvious that Lu, Violet, and BSP continued to defend Brad and berate other viewers who were coming down hard on Brad in the chat room because he is a VapeTV advertiser. Their reaction to this situation, and his comments, would have been much different if he were not a VapeTV advertiser.

I was on the fence as to wether Box Elder really did have any responsibility for dangerous eliquid being sent out. My comments on my show last night are on the record, and I said as much. After listening to Coz's show, my opinion has changed.

It's very clear to me now that there are some big problems with Box Elder. He admitted to sending out eliquid with the wrong nicotine level. Even with that admission, Lu, Violet, and BSP continued to defend Brad again and again and berate people making comments against Brad. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that they defended him because Brad is an advertiser on VapeTV. It's disgusting. We're not talking about a mod or a cartomizer here - this is potentially lethal eliquid.

It's obvious to me that Box Elder is responsible for shipping out extremely dangerous product, and it's obvious that Lu, Violet, and BSP defended Brad because Brad gives VapeTV money for advertising. Anyone who thinks that their reaction to this news would have been the same if Brad were not a VapeTV advertiser is living in a fantasy world. Defending their advertiser is more important to VapeTV than stating the truth about an irresponsible vendor.

I used to be a VapeTV host, and I would give away products that I liked. I gave away mods and cartomizers and eliquid that I enjoyed using. One day Lu said that I was no longer allowed to do this, and that I would only be allowed to give away products from VapeTV advertisers. So most of the time I was stuck with giving away bottles of Gourmet Vapor eliquid.

I just realized that Lu gave me a bag of eliquid and a VapeTV sticker to give away but that never happened because they kicked me off VapeTV.

Anyone want it?

Actually, nevermind, I just gave it to the NYC Department of Sanitation.

 

[salemgold]

Many good and valid points there 6point

 

[BardicDruid]

So that would explain why when I went to VapeTV I couldn't find the vid, I had to use the links posted in this thread to get them.

I think that Coz conducted an extremely professional interview in a fair and unbiased manner.

I did contact both Kurt and Brad to see if they wanted to come on my show last night to talk about this situation. Brad said that he would send me an email statement (he never did) and Kurt said that he was too busy. At first I was disappointed, but it turned out to be a good thing because we learned much more by this interview being done by Coz.

I'm glad that the interview happened on VapeTV, for two reasons. First, I think that Coz has better interviewing skills than me, and he probably got more information out of Brad that I might have been able to. Second, I think everybody learned a lot from the comments made in the chat room by Lu, Violet, and Blacksmith Pro, which would not have happened if the interview was on my show.

It is obvious that Lu, Violet, and BSP continued to defend Brad and berate other viewers who were coming down hard on Brad in the chat room because he is a VapeTV advertiser. Their reaction to this situation, and his comments, would have been much different if he were not a VapeTV advertiser.

I was on the fence as to wether Box Elder really did have any responsibility for dangerous eliquid being sent out. My comments on my show last night are on the record, and I said as much. After listening to Coz's show, my opinion has changed.

It's very clear to me now that there are some big problems with Box Elder. He admitted to sending out eliquid with the wrong nicotine level. Even with that admission, Lu, Violet, and BSP continued to defend Brad again and again and berate people making comments against Brad. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that they defended him because Brad is an advertiser on VapeTV. It's disgusting. We're not talking about a mod or a cartomizer here - this is potentially lethal eliquid.

It's obvious to me that Box Elder is responsible for shipping out extremely dangerous product, and it's obvious that Lu, Violet, and BSP defended Brad because Brad gives VapeTV money for advertising. Anyone who thinks that their reaction to this news would have been the same if Brad were not a VapeTV advertiser is living in a fantasy world. Defending their advertiser is more important to VapeTV than stating the truth about an irresponsible vendor.

I used to be a VapeTV host, and I would give away products that I liked. I gave away mods and cartomizers and eliquid that I enjoyed using. One day Lu said that I was no longer allowed to do this, and that I would only be allowed to give away products from VapeTV advertisers. So most of the time I was stuck with giving away bottles of Gourmet Vapor eliquid.

I just realized that Lu gave me a bag of eliquid and a VapeTV sticker to give away but that never happened because they kicked me off VapeTV.

Anyone want it?

Actually, nevermind, I just gave it to the NYC Department of Sanitation.

View attachment 63262

 

[mgordon1100]

6point,

I listened to your show, and I still think you were spot on about calling this vender "criminal". That's a hefty word to throw around, and I don't think BE is really out to completely deny that a mistakes are happening. I think Brad is reluctant to say anything that could hurt him in the long run if legal action were to take place. One thing we can all bet on, is that he's going to take a closer interest in his operations.

 

[6pointprime]

6point,

I listened to your show, and I still think you were spot on about calling this vender "criminal". That's a hefty word to throw around, and I don't think BE is really out to completely deny that a mistakes are happening. I think Brad is reluctant to say anything that could hurt him in the long run if legal action were to take place. One thing we can all bet on, is that he's going to take a closer interest in his operations.

Apparently you did not listen carefully. I did not call BE or their actions criminal - I said that it was irresponsible to call him or his actions criminal. Irresponsible or sloppy, yes, criminal, no.

 

[mgordon1100]

Apparently you did not listen carefully. I did not call BE or their actions criminal - I said that it was irresponsible to call him or his actions criminal. Irresponsible or sloppy, yes, criminal, no.

No, I listened to you very carefully. I know exactly what you said, and I agreed with you. I still agree with what you said. When I first saw someone using that word here, I did a facepalm over it. I think your misunderstanding what I just wrote. I didn't say that you called them that, I said that I understand your standpoint on it.