Your original point was taken, with most, I believe. The exact
Thing came to my mind.....
How are clones allowed?
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Your original point was taken, with most, I believe. The exact
Thing came to my mind.....
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing... Hon Lik of Ruyan and Jide Yao of Hangsen are the guys whose innovative thinking brought us vaping as we know it today.
Everyone else since then has taken their ideas and....improved upon them, copied them, changed them slightly, updated them, experimented with them, made them in different shapes, changed their materials, made them bigger, made them smaller, made them more expensive, tried standing them on their heads, rebuilt them, recoiled them, put stuff on their tops, put stuff on the bottoms, thickened them, reformulated flavours for them...and will continue to do so until both electronic cigarettes and e-liquid become obsolete.
Are egos now a generic standard shape for a battery with a connector? Yep. Like "Kleenex", "hoovering" and who cares what else.
At some point it becomes irrelevant to use and misuse the terms 'copy' or 'clone'.
I seriously do not care about brand names, will not necessarily pay a premium for a brand label, and definitely don't give a rat's a** for exclusivity. I care about useability, safety, price and longevity. Esthetics, too, being a little old lady.
Well, I finished my graduate degrees in the early 80s. Since then, I've worked for several Fortune 100 globals, as well as run my own successful business. So feel free to disagree, but please don't presume that I am simply naive.
I said, "Corporations have no ethics, no conscience and no morality." And I stand by that. People within a corporation may act ethically and morally, but a corporation is simply a legal entity that protects profits from taxation and shareholders from personal consequences for business actions. As a business structure, corporations have rights, responsibilities and regulations that are distinct from the rights and responsibilities of those who run them. That separation is the goal of incorporation. But no conscience comes with the paperwork. You might as well say that a machine has feelings.
And BTW, many would argue that retaining customers by giving them what they want IS a profit decision.
It wouldn't be worth it for most companies to go after the clone's. Plus, a lot of these modders hold small businesses and don't have a patent for their products. A good name speaks for itself, there are ton's of failed clones but names like Provari and House of Hybrids hold value in the community. You will never see a clone with a warranty.
Especially when the Chinese in question actually INVENTED the thing...
Come off it, willya? North America did not create technology ex nihilo and misguided superiority complexes didn't get us all off smoking, did they?
Come off it, willya? North America did not create technology ex nihilo and misguided superiority complexes didn't get us all off smoking, did they?
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APV/Mods/Hybrids are basically flashlights. It ain't rocket science. If I designed the coolest PV and someone wants to copy it - more power to them! Zen from House of Hybrids is all about sharing his designs with whoever. He stated that his thread specs are open source and would even help you. In the big scheme of things, we want smokers to convert to vaping. If clones offer the look they want without spending big dollars or waiting forever and a day for the next batch, then why not.
Have to disagree with that.
1 Most of the 'original' modders can't mass produce their product in any meaningful numbers. If they could it would SURELY reduce their ability to charge top dollar. Who wants to pay a premium price for something that you can buy on any street corner?
2 Those same mods are generally sold out pre production mostly because of the reasons in #1.
3 There will always be those with the money and inclination to buy the genuine goods.
The proof is in the pudding as they say. Go try to buy the latest Caravella, GG, Pinoy, Kayfun, etc., etc., etc. in the next 15 minutes.
Whaaaat? Out of Stock?
I believe somewhat the opposite of you, that clones / copies have a legitimate place in the market. Again, the proof is in the pudding as you have already pointed out regarding co ops for clones as well as their wide availability.
On a personal note, I have no desire to own a Toyota with Lexus emblems slapped on the hood, trunk and wheels. Also, have no desire to own a dozen Kia's in various colors and models. Not that there's anything wrong with either of those things. Live and let live
Gotta agree with this wisdom in the case of ecigs.
The Chinese likely would not respect a US patent anyway, and it is also fine to appeal to the morals of potential buyers to focus on US-made products. In many cases, the Chinese are cloning other Chinese products.
It IS a jungle out there. With capitalism, the 'cheaper, faster, better' business model is just fine. It is the 'cheaper, faster, junk' business model that could be troublesome. There is some junk out there for sure, but a lot of the stuff is very good for what it is.
I agree.
The Cheaper, faster junk side is problematic and it has been very important that there are unbiased reviewers out there that we can depend on.
The interesting thing is that the large Chinese manufacturers seem to react very fast and fix problems with newer versions almost as fast as the ink is dry on the packaging for the first version.
This has resulted in calls for them to do more testing before releasing a product. This in turn has resulted in some of the companies sending pre-production versions to some of the more popular reviewers for comments.
At the end of the day, this is an industry in its infancy and I do not believe many of the innovations we have seen would have happened without both sides.
The Cheaper, faster junk side is problematic and it has been very important that there are unbiased reviewers out there that we can depend on.
The interesting thing is that the large Chinese manufacturers seem to react very fast and fix problems with newer versions almost as fast as the ink is dry on the packaging for the first version.
This has resulted in calls for them to do more testing before releasing a product. This in turn has resulted in some of the companies sending pre-production versions to some of the more popular reviewers for comments.
At the end of the day, this is an industry in its infancy and I do not believe many of the innovations we have seen would have happened without both sides.
No problem, be glad to say it, if I can buy a similar device for $200 less than what some U.S. manufacturer sells one for I am more than happy to do it. If that cheaper devices can provide the features I want and last a reasonable amount of time I'm happy. I don't need a pv that will last even a year 'cause by then some other flashy new pv will be available that I want anyway, so durability is just not a deciding factor for me.
I am not convinced that clone/copy is the proper terminology for the majority hardware made in China. If you browse thru Lowes or Home Depot and look at flashlights they all look similar, are they clones and copies? After all they are just tubes that hold batteries that provide a function that we need/desire like our PV's.
There is always a jingoistic undercurrent that these debates always boils down to. To me loyalty is earned not owed. Just because some manufacturer makes his device on the same piece of dirt that I happen to live on doesn't automatically earn my business/loyalty. If they can produce a product that is either so superior in benefit that there is no question I have to have that product or a product that is similar in benefit and price then I will be happy to buy from them, but I just don't see that benefit in the high end mods.
So let me see if I have this straight....
If a person takes an idea and makes it cheaper its a clone and its bad
But if a person takes an idea and makes it better its an original?
So what if a person takes an idea and makes it better and cheaper? What is the product called then?
And finally, what happens when the originator is no longer in business? Did the originator go out of business because of the clones, or did the originator fail to meet his customers requirements?
If a person takes an idea and makes it cheaper its a clone and its bad
But if a person takes an idea and makes it better its an original?
So what if a person takes an idea and makes it better and cheaper? What is the product called then?
And finally, what happens when the originator is no longer in business? Did the originator go out of business because of the clones, or did the originator fail to meet his customers requirements?
Boston- I'm with you. I consider clones an alternative. If that gets them in a smokers hands, I'm all for it. Isn't vaping suppose to be cheaper than analogs. Many may go back to smoking and guess who wins - Big Tobacco....plus if I had a PV that everyone wants, I need to up my game and mass produce. But I may not want to since my customers are rich and they want unique engravings, real gold and diamonds on their PV.
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Don't really know, but if I would be a mean person I would almost think out aloud that the biggest cry from the clones comes from flippers who see their profits melting away.
1) clones are allowed because people are greedy, and people want to look cool, i ask a similar question? why buy off shores and not support your country? why buy chinese goods when we know quality and materials are not there? why, see answer 1
Same reason you bought all that Chinese made stuff you are selling on the Classified forum.
You HAVE seen the ones like Hercules, Terminator/Nautilius and likes?
Quality and materials aren't the things these are lacking off, ethics Yes.
Quality and materials aren't the things these are lacking off, ethics Yes.
Buy only from within your own borders and ignore the rest of the world,stop all exports to anywhere because those people should be supporting their own economies and not that of another country.
Oh,and use your own oil.
Oh,and use your own oil.
i am selling only the stuff i could not find, and not know enough to not buy when i first started, gotta love a troll
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