How come people use so much cotton for Genesis Atty's ?

[silber]

Personally, I subjectively find cotton to have the clearest taste, so I try to use it whenever possible. Steel mesh is the next best thing. Ekowool and silica taste disgusting to me. I've only gotten the cotton dry hit twice in my life so it's a moot point to me.

 

[Jonathan]

Its a personal preference thing. If you like to shove tampons in the tank and it keeps you off analogs, than more power to ya.
I guess they are sterile, lmao

 

[boborone]

Again, that is not what I am saying at all.

I definitely see builds get posted that choke off juice flow, especially from users who say they don't like cotton in gennys. There are definitely right and wrong things you can do while building. Understanding the basic principals on which a genesis atomizer works would help you understand this.

For example, let's talk about the fill hole. When the fill hole is blocked, you create negative pressure as juice leaves the tank. Combine this negative pressure with the force of gravity, and the rate in which cotton wicks can not keep up. You will end up with a wick that is wet on the bottom and dry on the top. Not ideal for vaping. tl;dr, the negative pressure will make the liquid want to stay in the tank.

Steel wick builds can wick against gravity (and to a point the pressure differential) using capillary action. Cotton wicks do not do this, so you must take another approach. This is also why leaving long tails inside the tank doesn't do anything but make the top of the wick drier. Cotton isn't going to suck the juice out of the bottom of the tank like some people think it will, it does not have enough capillary movement to work against the force of gravity like a steel mesh/rope/cable/braid does. Wrong material for the job.

The entire principal on which an autodripper works is that there will be no pressure differential between the top cap and tank. This allows you to transfer the juice from the tank area to the atomizer chamber using a cotton wick by tipping the wick into juice. The wick will remain saturated against the force of gravity, but it won't wick very quickly against this force.

If you want to put something in the fill hole, use an open top cone like the RSST comes with. That will stop leaking while also avoiding the pressure differential.

I am simply stressing the importance of having no pressure differential, having good juice flow throughout the entire wick, and not placing your coil on the last part of the wick to be saturated (the top of the wick, because gravity.)

The post above mine shows another build that accomplishes the same thing while taking a very different approach. If you think I'm trying to say THIS IS HOW YOU SHOULD BUILD A COTTON GENNY, you are wrong.

Refer to my first post in this thread. Mine works great with capillary action with cotton and long tails on the top and long wicks in the tank.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[silber]

Refer to my first post in this thread. Mine works great with capillary action with cotton and long tails on the top and long wicks in the tank.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Unless its just the lighting your wick doesn't look very saturated at the top, I think I even see dry spots. See how wet my wick looks? I didn't drip on it to make it look like that, and it stays that saturated down to the last half mL or so.

I'm sure it works, but it might not be working as well as it could be.

You are also using an RSST. The fill hole cone has a hole in it, so you don't get a pressure differential. Unless you are using a different fill plug than what came in your atomizer, you are not creating an appreciable amount of negative pressure in the tank. That fill cone thing the RSST comes with is one of its nicest features, slows leaking down a lot while not messing with the pressure in the tank.

Jam a toothpick or something in the fill hole and take a few hits, that should be enough to prove the point I was trying to make in my last post. (Actually don't do this unless you want to inhale cotton)

 

[ConradM]

Again, that is not what I am saying at all.

I definitely see builds get posted that choke off juice flow, especially from users who say they don't like cotton in gennys. There are definitely right and wrong things you can do while building. Understanding the basic principals on which a genesis atomizer works would help you understand this.

For example, let's talk about the fill hole. When the fill hole is blocked, you create negative pressure as juice leaves the tank. Combine this negative pressure with the force of gravity, and the rate in which cotton wicks can not keep up. You will end up with a wick that is wet on the bottom and dry on the top. Not ideal for vaping. tl;dr, the negative pressure will make the liquid want to stay in the tank.

Steel wick builds can wick against gravity (and to a point the pressure differential) using capillary action. Cotton wicks do not do this, so you must take another approach. This is also why leaving long tails inside the tank doesn't do anything but make the top of the wick drier. Cotton isn't going to suck the juice out of the bottom of the tank like some people think it will, it does not have enough capillary movement to work against the force of gravity like a steel mesh/rope/cable/braid does. Wrong material for the job.

The entire principal on which an autodripper works is that there will be no pressure differential between the top cap and tank. This allows you to transfer the juice from the tank area to the atomizer chamber using a cotton wick by tipping the wick into juice. The wick will remain saturated against the force of gravity, but it won't wick very quickly against this force.

If you want to put something in the fill hole, use an open top cone like the RSST comes with. That will stop leaking while also avoiding the pressure differential.

I am simply stressing the importance of having no pressure differential, having good juice flow throughout the entire wick, and not placing your coil on the last part of the wick to be saturated (the top of the wick, because gravity.)

The post above mine shows another build that accomplishes the same thing while taking a very different approach. If you think I'm trying to say THIS IS HOW YOU SHOULD BUILD A COTTON GENNY, you are wrong.

Ok, I have to disagree here. First the RSST does not have an open top cone or whatever you think it is. When you plug the fill hole, it's plugged. Secondly, I do plug the fill hole on my RSST with auto dripper builds and they do wick through capillary action.

 

[ConradM]

How come people use cotton at all? In a genny especially? it has a funny taste like tissues when it isnt burnt tasting. It's sooo easy to roast it in a dripper. But in a genny its just silliness. The only reason I ever had to put anything but mesh in a genny was because I ran out of mesh before more arrived. I used silica then, lol. It sucked compared to a well prepared piece of 450 mesh. I think people are so adamant about how great cotton is in a genny because in truth they cant get mesh to work for them and are too proud to admit it.
To be fair, mesh can be a nightmare to work with at first

I actually find mesh to be incredibly easy to work with. But when I want clouds and vapor I go to micro coils and cotton.

 

[ConradM]

Unless its just the lighting your wick doesn't look very saturated at the top, I think I even see dry spots. See how wet my wick looks? I didn't drip on it to make it look like that, and it stays that saturated down to the last half mL or so.

I'm sure it works, but it might not be working as well as it could be.

You are also using an RSST. The fill hole cone has a hole in it, so you don't get a pressure differential. Unless you are using a different fill plug than what came in your atomizer, you are not creating an appreciable amount of negative pressure in the tank. That fill cone thing the RSST comes with is one of its nicest features, slows leaking down a lot while not messing with the pressure in the tank.

Jam a toothpick or something in the fill hole and take a few hits, that should be enough to prove the point I was trying to make in my last post. (Actually don't do this unless you want to inhale cotton)

Where are you getting the idea that the fill plug has a hole in it? I can assure you it doesn't.



and please, try and tell me that cotton doesn't look soaked. lol...

 

[boborone]

Unless its just the lighting your wick doesn't look very saturated at the top, I think I even see dry spots. See how wet my wick looks? I didn't drip on it to make it look like that, and it stays that saturated down to the last half mL or so.

I'm sure it works, but it might not be working as well as it could be.

You are also using an RSST. The fill hole cone has a hole in it, so you don't get a pressure differential. Unless you are using a different fill plug than what came in your atomizer, you are not creating an appreciable amount of negative pressure in the tank. That fill cone thing the RSST comes with is one of its nicest features, slows leaking down a lot while not messing with the pressure in the tank.

Jam a toothpick or something in the fill hole and take a few hits, that should be enough to prove the point I was trying to make in my last post. (Actually don't do this unless you want to inhale cotton)

What the poster below you said and no sir, wick is saturated. Just cause something doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for others.

I don't see why it's such a hard concept.

Different strokes for different folks.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[silber]

I don't own a RSST, but I guess the ones I have seen must have been modified by having the top of the cone cut off.

Cotton WILL wick against negative pressure and gravity, but you're not maximizing the rate in which this happens. I'm guessing you're either a) having to tip, b) vaping low wattage, therefore not demanding much wicking or c) getting dry hits when drawing for longer than about ~1-2 full seconds, d) using high PG juice. Basically, yes it is working, but no it is not working near its full potential.

Keep in mind I am pushing 58 watts on flat wire using 93%VG, and I vape by taking 5+ second deep lung inhales, so the demands for wicking on my build are probably higher since most people don't build for a high of wattage as I do. If you are running low wattage, or only inhaling for a second or two, you can .... the wicking up decently badly and still have it vape acceptably. EX: basically if you're not demanding much from your wick, you don't need to min/max your wicking potential.

 

[silber]

Where are you getting the idea that the fill plug has a hole in it? I can assure you it doesn't.



and please, try and tell me that cotton doesn't look soaked. lol...

The cotton around your microcoil looks singed, can you take the cotton out of the coil and post a picture? Its hard to tell with those clear juices if it's singing or just an old wick with some carmelization.

 

[ConradM]

I don't own a RSST, but I guess the ones I have seen must have been modified by having the top of the cone cut off.

Cotton WILL wick against negative pressure and gravity, but you're not maximizing the rate in which this happens. I'm guessing you're either a) having to tip, b) vaping low wattage, therefore not demanding much wicking or c) getting dry hits when drawing for longer than about ~1-2 full seconds. Basically, yes it is working, but no it is not working near its full potential.

Keep in mind I am pushing 58 watts on flat wire, and I vape by taking 5+ second deep lung inhales, so the demands for wicking on my build are probably higher since most people don't build for a high of wattage as I do. If you are running low wattage, or only inhaling for a second or two, you can .... the wicking up decently badly and still have it vape acceptably.

Wrong again. What are you, the kind of assumptions? How can you not grasp the concept that just because you can't get something to work, other people can...

 

[silber]

Wrong again. What are you, the kind of assumptions? How can you not grasp the concept that just because you can't get something to work, other people can...

You posted a wick that appears singed (what happens to cotton when your wicking doesn't keep up) on a build that I would ballpark around 15-25 watts tops (didn't look at it very long so correct me if I'm wrong) so I really don't see your point? I'm trying to say that if your build doesn't demand as much wicking, you won't notice these things. Most people seem to vape around like 15W which isn't very demanding, a freaking protank can keep up with 15W.

Also things like "how much finesse you have at fluffing cotton" make more of a difference than just about anything on these builds anyway, there are a lot of factors outside of what I discussed.

It's fine if whatever you build works for you, but do you understand WHY it works? I have built the exact same build both of you posted. I am not saying they don't work by any means. They do. What I am trying to do, is min/max the wicking potential of cotton in a genesis. My build isn't perfect either, I change it just about every day.

What the poster below you said and no sir, wick is saturated. Just cause something doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for others.

I don't see why it's such a hard concept.

Different strokes for different folks.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Physics apply to how atomizers work. I don't see why it's such a hard concept.

 

[boborone]

.



Physics apply to how atomizers work. I don't see why it's such a hard concept.

Then I guess we're through here. Go on telling people you have perfect setup and any different is wrong setup.

It's all about how you like to vape and what works for you.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[silber]

Then I guess we're through here. Go on telling people you have perfect setup and any different is wrong setup.

Please quote when I said this. Oh wait, I never did, and I have mentioned several times that is NOT what I am trying to say. Are you even reading my posts?

I posted a build that works for me, and I even took the time to explain WHY it works. Neither of you have even attempted to explain why having your fill plugs in works for you. You are posting nothing beyond anecdotal evidence, which is meaningless.

Are you planning on actually explaining why your build works, or are you going to keep posting white noise?

 

[boborone]

Please quote when I said this. Oh wait, I never did, and I have mentioned several times that is NOT what I am trying to say. Are you even reading my posts?

I posted a build that works for me, and I even took the time to explain WHY it works. Neither of you have even attempted to explain why having your fill plugs in works for you. You are posting nothing beyond anecdotal evidence, which is meaningless.

Are you planning on actually explaining why your build works, or are you going to keep posting white noise?

Quote when I said the I used the plug. If you go back to my first post, the same theme has been in every one. People using the words right and wrong.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[silber]

Quote when I said the I used the plug. If you go back to my first post, the same theme has been in every one. People using the words right and wrong.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

It appears you have chosen: Continue to post whitenoise!

I agree that you shouldn't just blindly say something is wrong. But if you look into how and why something works, and have sufficient evidence, there's nothing wrong with saying that something is indeed wrong. I'm not just posting "this is what is right, this is what is wrong," blindly, I am also offering explanations why I am making these decisions alongside that. There is an entire FIELD OF STUDY dedicated to explaining how things like this work for bleep's sake. Do they not teach physics in high school anymore?

If you disagree with me, by all means feel free to offer up some evidence as to why I am incorrect. There are a lot of people on ECF who know a lot more about this than I do. Maybe one of them can help you?

See, you're arguing for the sake of arguing, while I'm trying to have a discussion on genesis wicking techniques.

 

[boborone]

It appears you have chosen: Continue to post whitenoise!

I agree that you shouldn't just blindly say something is wrong. But if you look into how and why something works, and have sufficient evidence, there's nothing wrong with saying that something is indeed wrong. I'm not just posting "this is what is right, this is what is wrong," blindly, I am also offering explanations why I am making these decisions alongside that.

If you disagree with me, by all means feel free to offer up some evidence as to why I am incorrect. There are a lot of people on ECF who know a lot more about this than I do. Maybe one of them can help you?

See, you're arguing for the sake of arguing, while I'm trying to have a discussion on genesis wicking techniques.

Sorry man. Go back and read. I haven't argued at all with any system people use. Didn't say you were wrong once. Just said all the talk of right and wrong isn't warranted. Lots of chill and calm people here on ECF. Maybe one of them can help you.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[ConradM]

Please quote when I said this. Oh wait, I never did, and I have mentioned several times that is NOT what I am trying to say. Are you even reading my posts?

I posted a build that works for me, and I even took the time to explain WHY it works. Neither of you have even attempted to explain why having your fill plugs in works for you. You are posting nothing beyond anecdotal evidence, which is meaningless.

Are you planning on actually explaining why your build works, or are you going to keep posting white noise?

Everything in this thread so far is anecdotal.

Oh and you assumed wrong again, my current build is .5 ohms. and yes the cotton slightly brown, I do that on purpose for break-in. So this is the last time I'll say this, stop making assumptions about pictures you see on the internet. All you're doing is spewing out wrong advice based on your personal failures which could potentially put a newbie off of RBA's. and I'm done with this thread, it should be locked thanks to you.

 

[silber]

Everything in this thread so far is anecdotal.

Oh and you assumed wrong again, my current build is .5 ohms. and yes the cotton slightly brown, I do that on purpose for break-in. So this is the last time I'll say this, stop making assumptions about pictures you see on the internet. All you're doing is spewing out wrong advice based on your personal failures which could potentially put a newbie off of RBA's. and I'm done with this thread, it should be locked thanks to you.

People pre-singe their cotton? You learn something new every day.

I'm posting about how to STOP a cotton wick in your genesis from burning, I didn't think I would ever need to say that LOL. Guess your build works great if you like the taste of singed cotton. Personally my goal is to taste the juice itself. Different strokes. But come on, I'm arguing with mr. "I don't like genesis atomizers and couldn't figure out how to get steel wicks to work" and a guy who likes burnt wicks, that should say a lot about your guys side of the argument in itself.

I like how you say too many people are using right and wrong and then call every single post I write wrong.

 

[boborone]

People pre-singe their cotton? You learn something new every day.

I'm posting about how to STOP a cotton wick in your genesis from burning, I didn't think I would ever need to say that LOL. Guess your build works great if you like the taste of singed cotton. Personally my goal is to taste the juice itself. Different strokes. But come on, I'm arguing with mr. "I don't like genesis atomizers and couldn't figure out how to get steel wicks to work" and a guy who likes burnt wicks, that should say a lot about your guys side of the argument in itself.

I like how you say too many people are using right and wrong and then call every single post I write wrong.

Just how the cookie crumbles

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk