How do y'all feel about this law?

[ShariR]

I am finding that most good vape shops will not sell to anyone under 18 and will card anyone looking around that age. I am more afraid of selling mechs and sub ohm stuff to a novice.

A lot of the gas stations and cigarette shops will sell anything to anybody if it is not regulated and then they still get caught selling to minors more often than they should. The major retailers and grocery stores will not let me buy beer or cigarettes where I live without me showing them my driver's license and I am almost 60 and I look my age. So regulations can be ridiculous too.

The money from the tobacco lawsuits is tied up with towns/states having regulations regarding smoking. Somehow vaping is being tied in with smoking so these entities get that free money that the municipalities are counting on. For a small town that can be a considerable sum of money for the yearly budget.

I am surprised about that ice cream and 5% alcohol law. Wonder how that is going to work. And CO and WA with their substance laws. Great, can't vape but the other is legal. What a world.

 

[KGB7]

Were still dependant on nicotine because because that cigarette death cocktail of thousands of chemicals, rewired our brains.

And while vaping very much is a fad to some, smoking was the fad before vaping and I'm willing to bet that's when the majority of us on here started smoking cigarettes. I had my first cigarette at 12. Monkey see, Monkey do will just bounce right back to cigarettes like it has been with every generation before vaping. Just because they might have been non smokers before vaping, doesn't mean they wouldn't have just become smokers regardless.

And further more, a vaping black market will arise and all you will need to do is attend a middle school or high school to have access while most adults wouldn't know the first place to look. So then when Big Tobacco finally wins, most of us will either go back to smoking while trying to use RJ Reynolds pretty dangerous looking Vuse ciga-like while the kids are enjoying their new underground vape fad which will be a whole lot more cool if illegal considering your average teens rebellious nature.

Rewired your brain?? Would love to see a long term study on that.

I smoked cigs for 21 years, i started vaping on day one with 0mg Nic juice and after one month, i have Zero craving for Nicotine. After two month, I vaped my friends juice (8ml, 3mg) and i still had no cravings for Nicotine. So how exactly did cigs rewired our brains??

And yet, people vape juice with Nic for years, because their brains is all jacked the ef up from cigs, but my brain is not? Who are you working for?

Black market?? What the eF?? Now you just fell off the band wagon with your tin-foil suit.


Talk about cray cray up in here.

 

[Oberon75]

Rewired your brain?? Would love to see a long term study on that.

I smoked cigs for 21 years, i started vaping on day one with 0mg Nic juice and after one month, i have Zero craving for Nicotine. After two month, I vaped my friends juice (8ml, 3mg) and i still had no cravings for Nicotine. So how exactly did cigs rewired our brains??

And yet, people vape juice with Nic for years, because their brains is all jacked the ef up from cigs, but my brain is not? Who are you working for?

Black market?? What the eF?? Now you just fell off the band wagon with your tin-foil suit.


Talk about cray cray up in here.

Yes. There have been claims that nicotine along with smoke and other chemicals can alter the brain chemically. There has however never been any proof of nicotine in never smokers causing addiction. And considering you just admitted that you get no cravings from your friends juice with nicotine, you pretty much contradicted your previous claim that nicotine is addicting without tobacco.

And in fact, every one of us, smoker, vaper or non has nicotine in our bodies already. Perhaps next they can come down on ketchup and tea pots.

And here is a pretty good read for you.

http://www.ecigarette-politics.com/nicotine-clinical-trials-why-aren-t-there-any.html

And before we speak of tinfoil hats, in the 2014 Big Survey conducted by this very website which was given to 10,000 people, 79% of them said they would seek out eliquid and devices on the black market. I might even start my own little black market business since I know quite a few vapers who would not have a clue on how to make their own juice. I plan on buying about 1000ml of 100mg base when I get my tax return and more if things get ugly. Am I the only one?

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...ignore-bans-turn-to-black-market-survey-finds

Now if a black market happens which would be inevitable, teenagers would have an even easier time obtaining these products since their source is no longer a minority amount of retailers who break the rules. Everybody in school knows how to buy contraband and there is always somebody to sell it. After Colorado lifted the funny green tobacco ban and their black market ceased, it's been reported that teen use has declined.

And even worse, they will potentially be vaping with unregulated devices and dangerous batteries.

 

[KGB7]

Yes. There have been claims that nicotine along with smoke and other chemicals can alter the brain chemically. There has however never been any proof of nicotine in never smokers causing addiction. And considering you just admitted that you get no cravings from your friends juice with nicotine, you pretty much contradicted your previous claim that nicotine is addicting without tobacco.

And in fact, every one of us, smoker, vaper or non has nicotine in our bodies already. Perhaps next they can come down on ketchup and tea pots.

And here is a pretty good read for you.

Nicotine Clinical Trials: Why Aren't There Any?

And before we speak of tinfoil hats, in the 2014 Big Survey conducted by this very website which was given to 10,000 people, 79% of them said they would seek out eliquid and devices on the black market. I might even start my own little black market business since I know quite a few vapers who would not have a clue on how to make their own juice. I plan on buying about 1000ml of 100mg base when I get my tax return.

E-Cigarette Users Would Ignore Bans, Turn to Black Market, Survey Finds - US News

Now if a black market happens which would be inevitable, teenagers would have an even easier time obtaining these products since their source is no longer a minority amount of retailers who break the rules. Everybody in school knows how to buy contraband and there is always somebody to sell it. After Colorado lifted the funny green tobacco ban and their black market ceased, it's been reported that teen use has declined.

And even worse, they will potentially be vaping with unregulated devices and dangerous batteries.

From your link;

There is no published clinical trial examining the potential of nicotine for 'addiction'. That is to say, there is no published trial of the administration of pure nicotine to never-smokers for the purpose of investigating any potential for dependence.

In plain English; Because no one has done the study in the first place, thats why there is nothing published.... duhh!!

And i didnt contradict my self. 6ml 3gm of juice is no where near to trigger my need for nicotine. Every time i go to a dentist, i need double the shot local anesthesia, i take x3 the norm of Aspirin for any kind of pain, Morphine is like candy to me, Multivitamins are like M&M, because i have very high tolerance for medication. So you dont get to use me as an example.

Read your own links before you post them.

Many electronic cigarette users would turn to the black market if products they currently use are banned, according to survey results published Thursday.

Again, speculation, you need to read the key words. Would and IF. I dont see the future and neither do you.

 

[Oberon75]

From your link;



In plain English; Because no one has done the study in the first place, thats why there is nothing published.... duhh!!

And i didnt contradict my self. 6ml 3gm of juice is no where near to trigger my need for nicotine. Every time i go to a dentist, i need double the shot local anesthesia, i take x3 the norm of Aspirin for any kind of pain, Morphine is like candy to me, Multivitamins are like M&M, because i have very high tolerance for medication. So you dont get to use me as an example.

Read your own links before you post them.

Umm did you read the whole article or did you just pick low hanging fruit?

I'll give you a head start.

"There are multiple clinical trials where nicotine was administered to never-smokers, for other purposes such as investigating its beneficial effects in treating certain medical conditions. The eight trials located so far involved hundreds of never-smokers in total. In some trials, high doses of nicotine were administered daily for several months. No subject, ever, in any trial, was reported to have experienced any sign of reinforcement, or withdrawal, or continued nicotine use after (and this was both examined and commented on). It was noted that nicotine had no potential for dependence in any of these trials."

 

[KGB7]

Umm did you read the whole article or did you just pick low hanging fruit?

I'll give you a head start.

"There are multiple clinical trials where nicotine was administered to never-smokers, for other purposes such as investigating its beneficial effects in treating certain medical conditions. The eight trials located so far involved hundreds of never-smokers in total. In some trials, high doses of nicotine were administered daily for several months. No subject, ever, in any trial, was reported to have experienced any sign of reinforcement, or withdrawal, or continued nicotine use after (and this was both examined and commented on). It was noted that nicotine had no potential for dependence in any of these trials."

Then your article contradicts it self. First it says there has been no study then it says there has been a study. So which is it?? But thats just one article. From a site thats about e-cigs.

Where is the study from English Medical Journal??

 

[Oberon75]

Then your article contradicts it self. First it says there has been no study then it says there has been a study. So which is it?? But thats just one article.

How is it a contradiction when this is the very first sentence?

" There is no evidence whatsoever that nicotine can cause dependence "without exposure to tobacco", and considerable evidence that it can't."

 

[KGB7]

Here you go.

Is Nicotine Addictive ?

Is Nicotine 'Addictive' ?
Possibly - and possibly not. Nobody really knows, as there has never been any research (in humans).


What do clinical trials of nicotine tell us?
Nothing. There aren't any.

Good night.

 

[Cullin Kin]

KGB7, do you watch 'The Americans?'

 

[KGB7]

KGB7, do you watch 'The Americans?'

I did for a bit, but lost track of the episodes as they came out at random intervals.

 

[Oberon75]

And here's a quote from another article since you said that's just one article.

http://discovermagazine.com/2014/march/13-nicotine-fix

Perhaps most surprising is that, in studies by Boyd and others, nicotine has not caused addiction or withdrawal when used to treat disease. These findings fly in the face of nicotine’s reputation as one of the most addictive substances known, but it’s a reputation built on myth. Tobacco may well be as addictive as ......, as some have claimed. But as scientists know, getting mice or other animals hooked on nicotine alone is dauntingly difficult. As a 2007 paper in the journal.Neuropharmacology.put it: “Tobacco use has one of the highest rates of addiction of any abused drug.” Paradoxically it’s almost impossible to get laboratory animals hooked on pure nicotine, though it has a mildly pleasant effect..

The same study found that tobacco smoke itself is necessary to amp up nicotine’s addictiveness. In 2005, for instance, researchers at the University of California, Irvine, found that animals self-administer a combination of nicotine and acetaldehyde, an organic chemical found in tobacco, significantly more often than either chemical alone. In 2009, a French team found that combining nicotine with a cocktail of five other chemicals found in tobacco — anabasine, nornicotine, anatabine, cotinine and myosmine — significantly increased rats’ hyperactivity and self-administration of the mix compared with nicotine alone..

 

[Cullin Kin]

I did for a bit, but lost track of the episodes as they came out at random intervals.

Ahh, you're missing out!

 

[KGB7]

And here's a quote from another article since you said that's just one article.

Nicotine, the Wonder Drug? | DiscoverMagazine.com

Perhaps most surprising is that, in studies by Boyd and others, nicotine has not caused addiction or withdrawal when used to treat disease. These findings fly in the face of nicotine’s reputation as one of the most addictive substances known, but it’s a reputation built on myth. Tobacco may well be as addictive as ......, as some have claimed. But as scientists know, getting mice or other animals hooked on nicotine alone is dauntingly difficult. As a 2007 paper in the journal.Neuropharmacology.put it: “Tobacco use has one of the highest rates of addiction of any abused drug.” Paradoxically it’s almost impossible to get laboratory animals hooked on pure nicotine, though it has a mildly pleasant effect..

The same study found that tobacco smoke itself is necessary to amp up nicotine’s addictiveness. In 2005, for instance, researchers at the University of California, Irvine, found that animals self-administer a combination of nicotine and acetaldehyde, an organic chemical found in tobacco, significantly more often than either chemical alone. In 2009, a French team found that combining nicotine with a cocktail of five other chemicals found in tobacco — anabasine, nornicotine, anatabine, cotinine and myosmine — significantly increased rats’ hyperactivity and self-administration of the mix compared with nicotine alone..

There is lack of information from this study;

1. How much Nicotine was used to treat a disease?
2. What is the period of time a Nicotine was used for during a treatment for a disease?

And the last question.

Why do people vape juice with Nic after 2 years??

 

[Oberon75]

There is lack of information from this study;

1. How much Nicotine was used to treat a disease?
2. What is the period of time a Nicotine was used for during a treatment for a disease?

And the last question.

Why do people vape juice with Nic after 2 years??

How about this one? You have some reading to do here.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3466669/#!po=34.3750

Meanwhile you cannot give me any evidence that nicotine is addictive outside of tobacco.

 

[KGB7]

Ahh, you're missing out!

I know dude, ...i think im at 10th episode now? That big lady got killed, and after that episodes tv show just got halted for like 3 month.

 

[KGB7]

How about this one? You have some reading to do here.

Nicotine treatment of mild cognitive impairment

Meanwhile you cannot give me any evidence that nicotine is addictive.

I cant give you any evidence, because NO study has been done. I said that several times.


Dude, ill make it easier for you. Ctrl+F then type addiction or addictive. That last link has none of those words.


[h=3]Conclusion:[/h]This study demonstrated that transdermal nicotine can be safely administered to nonsmoking subjects with MCI over 6 months with improvement in primary and secondary cognitive measures of attention, memory, and mental processing, but not in ratings of clinician-rated global impression. We conclude that this initial study provides evidence for nicotine-induced cognitive improvement in subjects with MCI; however, whether these effects are clinically important will require larger studies.

 

[Oberon75]

I cant give you any evidence, because NO study has been done. I said that several times.


Dude, ill make it easier for you. Ctrl+F then type addiction or addictive. That last link has none of those words.

Plenty of studies have been done, some of which are on those pages from that last link.

 

[KGB7]

Plenty of studies have been done, some of which are on those pages from that last link.

I cant find a single word that has to do with addiction from your last link.

Plenty of studies? Which ones exactly? So far you havent showed me anything.

I know im blind. Do a screen shot for me.. please.

 

[Oberon75]

I cant find a single word that has to do with addiction from your last link.

Try pages 46 and 55

 

[KGB7]

Try pages 46 and 55

Its one single page for me. What exactly am i looking for?