RDA How long does it take to master an RDA?

Status
Not open for further replies.

mountainbikermark

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jan 13, 2014
833
2,030
central Virginia
I'd switch to a wire with less heat mass for starters. 8 wraps of 26 gauge on 2.5mm would be my suggestion.
Once you got your wicking right, experiment with thicker gauges and see if you like them.
I'm going to try a thicker wire next so I can do bigger id wraps. Ideally I'd like to get between .3-.7 ohm with as many wraps as needed for more surface area of the wick being heated. I'm happy with your recipe above, it works quite nicely, but if I can go bigger id to get the same resistance it'd be easier on my eyes when wrapping and I'd get more wick to juice up to go with more area being heated.

Support Our Troops!!!
Beast Mode 4
<><
 
Last edited:

Pushbutton

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Dec 7, 2014
256
251
Vienna, Austria
I forgot to mention... The build I posted was meant as a dual coil build. Comes out to 0.5ohms or thereabouts.
I am aware that it certainly isn't a cloud chasers build, but it fogs nicely around 35w for me and can certainly handle more in an open airflow atty like the mutationX.

At the above powerlevel, battery consumption is still quite economical which made it my go-to build for all day dripping.
 

pls0138

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Oct 2, 2014
226
242
New Jersey
It definitely takes a little while to "master" building on an rda. Considering you are using a Mutation X V4, I would bet that the lack of flavor you are experiencing has something to do with how you set up your airflow as well. The airflow on this atty is massive, so unless you are vaping a low resistance build at a high wattage, you are gonna want to close the airflow way off to get the best flavor IMO. I would try closing those side air holes all the way and just use the bottom air flow (don't forget to use one of those rubber plugs on the side opposite your coil).
 

BoUlToN

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2015
76
7
35
It definitely takes a little while to "master" building on an rda. Considering you are using a Mutation X V4, I would bet that the lack of flavor you are experiencing has something to do with how you set up your airflow as well. The airflow on this atty is massive, so unless you are vaping a low resistance build at a high wattage, you are gonna want to close the airflow way off to get the best flavor IMO. I would try closing those side air holes all the way and just use the bottom air flow (don't forget to use one of those rubber plugs on the side opposite your coil).
I've got a dual coil in it now, so got both lots of bottom holes open and 1 row of side holes open on both sides, the clouds are good just the taste goes too quick, still think it's the wicking I haven't got right, what's the best way to know the right size wick? No matter what i do it's not right.
 

BoUlToN

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2015
76
7
35
Sorry late reply, I've been experimenting with the stuff I've got and so far the 26AWG has been the best (0.42mm kanthal) clouds are good but the taste ain't there, still think it's my wicking which I'm struggling with, how do you know if you've got enough or too little? Might be a daft question but I'm constantly dripping. I'm using the milkman 99% VG, sure the juice can't be too thick for an RDA?
 

stylemessiah

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 16, 2015
1,027
3,549
Sydney, Australia


Seriously though, it can take months of frustration to get your build just right on some gear.
Always keep a note of what youre doing, nothigns worse than getting something perfect and getting lost in vape bliss after the discovery and forgetting what you did.

Ive always found 26g the best and i tend to use a 3mm ID as my first decent tank was a Lemo 2 so i got used to the build off that. I will say im one of those weirdos who sometimes finds a single coil build in a dual coil deck can work better...oh and i never do all that twisted malarkey that some people obsess over.

I prepare myself for the inevitable stoning....
 
Last edited:

BoUlToN

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2015
76
7
35


Seriously though, it can take months of frustration to get your build just right on some gear.
Always keep a note of what youre doing, nothigns worse than getting something perfect and getting lost in vape bliss after the discovery and forgetting what you did.

Ive always found 26g the best and i tend to use a 3mm ID as my first decent tank was a Lemo 2 so i got used to the build off that. I will say im one of those weirdos who sometimes finds a single coil build in a dual coil deck can work better...oh and i never do all that twisted malarkey that some people obsess over.

I prepare myself for the inevitable stoning....
Hahaha great pic, it's only been a week so far and I'm getting frustrated so that makes me feel so much better, and no i don't get all that twisting stuff either, I'm not even going to think about that! I can't measure my coil ID it's just a jog which came with my tool kit, looks about 4-5mm. Got 5 wraps on at the min and seems ok, does the wick have to fill the juice well cause not sure if that's where im going wrong?
 

Sm0keydaBear

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
143
39
39
Hahaha great pic, it's only been a week so far and I'm getting frustrated so that makes me feel so much better, and no i don't get all that twisting stuff either, I'm not even going to think about that! I can't measure my coil ID it's just a jog which came with my tool kit, looks about 4-5mm. Got 5 wraps on at the min and seems ok, does the wick have to fill the juice well cause not sure if that's where im going wrong?


Well it kind of takes a little more than micro wraps usually to get the maximum amount of flavor as well as getting the wicking correct and what not. The whole point really is just to keep experimenting until you find your happy medium between everything that vaping has to do. I found a lot about what I like and ordered a couple mods online and that will be able to handle what I want to throw at them. The RDA part was kind of a beginner step before getting into these Rebuildable Tank Atomizers which is great because they offer a few more perks than RDA's.
 

stylemessiah

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 16, 2015
1,027
3,549
Sydney, Australia
Hahaha great pic, it's only been a week so far and I'm getting frustrated so that makes me feel so much better, and no i don't get all that twisting stuff either, I'm not even going to think about that! I can't measure my coil ID it's just a jog which came with my tool kit, looks about 4-5mm. Got 5 wraps on at the min and seems ok, does the wick have to fill the juice well cause not sure if that's where im going wrong?

That pic was just off the top of my head at the meme generator - i have a pathological hatred of kanger tanks as the subtank mini was my first and it was the leakiest thing ive ever come across, and spitty. I suffered with that before moving on to Lemos and an RDA. But at least the subtank taught me about building, especially in the face of adversity and the tank working against you...bloody evil things.By the time i got the Lemo 1 i had my coiling building and wicking sorted out, and from the first build it was easy (especially as the Lemo worked properly :) )

All tanks and RDA's are different, but generally the more coil (and wick) surface area you get the better, but this si sometime slimited by the available build area and wire gauge

As for the question about filling the juice well with wick, each rda can be unique or have its indiosyncracies...im taking a guess it just gets poked down into the juice wells...

Try the search results from this, its best to find someone who also owns one of the same for advice:

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/search/2406868/?q=mutation+x+v4&o=relevance

One thing i have seen about this thing is that you do not drip juice willy nilly into it, it will leak, you take the top cap off and paint the juice on the wicks

RipTrippers review here points things like that out:
 

RiderVapor

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
May 9, 2015
100
52
64
I am still a novice at building my own coils and can not say how long it takes since time does not matter to me more than the satisfaction factor. Have recently gotten a lot better with my builds on the Sapor rda's, run two of them with same builds in each. I no longer use tanks but am consider getting a RTA for those times when dripping is too much of a hassle for me.
 

Sm0keydaBear

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
143
39
39
I'll tell you guys one thing, learning that ohms is added as there is more coil was the last thing I had learned when it comes to building coils. I taught myself basically how to make the crazier coils first because it was fun to do. After that well, I had to teach myself to understand how ohms are interpreted via the mods and how they work together. Mastering RDA building can take quite a bit, but if you're patient and have the will to do it, it will be a great experience, especially when you get that coil that make you go "Mmmmmm that tasted great!"
 
  • Like
Reactions: BoUlToN

apache1649

Full Member
Oct 19, 2015
31
11
29
I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, so forgive me if I say anything redundant, but here are my tips, from most important to least important. Also, this is to get MY ideal vape, which is a warm to hot, dense vape with little throat hit and an airy, open draw (I leave my airflow wide open). Everyone has different preferences. If you prefer a cooler vape, in the second step, don't lower the coil quite as much, among other things.



1) PRACTICE. Start with simple builds. I find 24 gauge kanthal A1 to be the easiest to build with, and it's great to learn with. Get those wraps as close as you can all the way around the circumference of the coil. Just barely overlap the edge of the wire over the edge of the previous wrap and keep tension on the wire while you wrap. This forces each wrap to be touching when you finish. The less the coil moves when you adjust it, the more uniform it is when it fires evenly and the better it distributes heat to the wick. Also, you will build more consistently this way. With multi-coils, the more consistent, the better. Coils that are slightly different, even with the same number of wraps and the same diameter, will never fire perfectly evenly, and that will affect your vape.

2) Center, level, and lower your coils, in that order. Since you're building on a Mutation, you have 2 center post holes. Each coil's positive lead should be in the post hole on the opposite side from it's negative lead. If you're using A1 or nichrome, touch the coil to the the posts, tighten the leads down, then use whatever you wrapped the coil on to pull it away from the posts. A1 and nichrome stretch rather easily, so you should be able to get it just the right distance from the posts by doing this. Then push the coil from whichever side of the deck it is closest to in order to center it. Once the coil is centered, tilt it to make the centerline fot eh coil parallel to the deck. Now push it down until the bottom of the coil is just above the lip of the juice well (you may have to re-level it after this, it may move a little bit). The lower it is, the hotter it vapes. Not sure why, that's just my experience. Once all that is done, then you adjust the coils for hot spots.

3) Make sure your coils glow PERFECTLY. You want them to glow from the center out, and if you have multi-coils (dual, quad, etc.) you want them to heat up simultaneously. If one heats up faster than the other, you get an uneven vape. Invest in a set of ceramic tweezers. Even the most well-wrapped coils rarely heat perfectly once they're installed. Don't hold the fire button down when you have hot spots, as you can distort or hot-cut the coil, as well as damage your batteries. Instead, gently pulse the fire button until the coil glows softly, then pinch the ends of the coil together. If you have ceramic tweezers, you can pinch the coils while you fire it, as they are non-conductive. If you can't get your hot spots out by pinching the coils, try strumming. Gently pulse the coil until it is evenly heated, then gently rake your tweezers across the coil where you have hot spots. It works wonders for fine-tuning the coils.

4) Learn how you like to wick. Do you tend to over-drip so you can take more hits between dripping? If so, use more cotton. Do you like to drip every 2-3 hits? Then only put enough cotton in to barely touch the bottom of the deck.

5) Learn how your airflow works, and build for the vape you want. If your airflow doesn't work well with your build, you won't get a satisfying vape. If you build to a lower resistance, you will generally see reduced flavor and more vapor. You'll want more airflow for this. If you want better flavor and less vapor, build to a higher resistance with less airflow. These are just general rules and there are many exceptions, but for basic builds it usually holds true. If you like flavor but hate ramp-up times from kanthal, my recommendation would be to build parallel coils. They increase surface area and reduce resistance, so a single coil 6 wrap parallel with 24g A1 and a 2.5mm inside diameter should give you a relatively warm, flavorful vape without too much ramp up and about a .3-.4 ohm resistance if I remember correctly from the last time I built one. Also, you should try to center your airflow on your coils. If one end of the coil gets more air moving past it than the other, that side of the coil will be cooler than the side not getting as much air, resulting in an uneven vape.

6) Once you've mastered simple, single-wire coils, look into coil theories. Coils that have more surface area in contact with the wick will produce more vapor at once. Coils with channels and such will also help the wicking process by drawing liquid into the coil, allowing the wick to pull in juice faster. I like stapled fused claptons and stapled helix builds the best, because they wick efficiently, have a large surface area, and I can build large coils (greater surface area) with low resistances. NEVER vape beyond your battery's capacity. I usually run around .15 on a 5 wrap single coil with nichrome, on a Sony VTC4. Ohms law: amperage draw = volts / ohms. 4.2 /.15 = 28. That's nearing the threshold for my 30 amp batteries, and I change them when I begin to see a drop in performance. I leave plenty of room for safety when vaping this close to my amp limit, and never run my batteries below 3.7-3.8 volts. Dead batteries don't play nicely with low-ohm builds.

7) Don't change your setup because someone tells you it's wrong. Hell, if you've found something you like already, don't change it because of this post. If it works for you and you like it, it's perfect. People will always be telling you that you can make it better if you do this, or that. It might make it better for them, but that's them, not you. I have people tell me all the time that my setup is wrong, but it produces the perfect blend of flavor, vapor production, density, draw resistance, temperature, and throat hit for me, so I don't change it. Vape what you like to vape, not what other people like to vape. They're called PERSONAL vaporizers for a reason.



And that's that! Have fun building and experimenting, it will take time to learn exactly how you need to build to get your perfect vape. Hopefully this was helpful for you and others who read this with the same questions.

- Nick

EDIT: I build on my Mutation X v2, so the posts are pretty much the same and the side airflow is near-identical, but you have bottom airflow and I do not, so that's something to keep in mind.
 

BoUlToN

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2015
76
7
35
I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, so forgive me if I say anything redundant, but here are my tips, from most important to least important. Also, this is to get MY ideal vape, which is a warm to hot, dense vape with little throat hit and an airy, open draw (I leave my airflow wide open). Everyone has different preferences. If you prefer a cooler vape, in the second step, don't lower the coil quite as much, among other things.
Thank you for the advice much appreciated, I've just found out my problem, it's hotspots on my coils burning my wick! Can't believe i never thought of that before! I thought i did everything right setting the coils up, how do i stop these hot spots burning my wick? I make sure they're firing up the same as eachother by pulsating the hit button, they look identical and I'm putting enough juice in the wick. I'm making my coils out of 26AWG kanthal, 4wraps, .28ohms and firing it 38-40watts. Experimented between 50 and 70watts before and still getting the same burnt draws after 5-6 hits. Where am i going wrong?
 
Last edited:

BoUlToN

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2015
76
7
35
That pic was just off the top of my head at the meme generator - i have a pathological hatred of kanger tanks as the subtank mini was my first and it was the leakiest thing ive ever come across, and spitty. I suffered with that before moving on to Lemos and an RDA. But at least the subtank taught me about building, especially in the face of adversity and the tank working against you...bloody evil things.By the time i got the Lemo 1 i had my coiling building and wicking sorted out, and from the first build it was easy (especially as the Lemo worked properly :) )

All tanks and RDA's are different, but generally the more coil (and wick) surface area you get the better, but this si sometime slimited by the available build area and wire gauge

As for the question about filling the juice well with wick, each rda can be unique or have its indiosyncracies...im taking a guess it just gets poked down into the juice wells...

Try the search results from this, its best to find someone who also owns one of the same for advice:

Search Results for Query: mutation x v4 | E-Cigarette Forum

One thing i have seen about this thing is that you do not drip juice willy nilly into it, it will leak, you take the top cap off and paint the juice on the wicks

RipTrippers review here points things like that out:
thank you, please read my last comment and see if you can help me, yeh certainly don't just drip it in, i made that mistake once and once only. Hotspots have been my problem since day 1 and I've only just figured out it was them. How do i make sure I don't get them? It's only after 5-6 draws, not straight away.
 

EU6EN3

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 1, 2013
173
61
red dot
Bro.. i had a MX4 same like you i had this issue before. I always get the burn taste just after a few puffs and i tried all ways to solve the issue but to no avail. I tried 24g 4 wraps/ 6 wraps/ 8 wraps and all taste the same after a few puffs.

lastly i changed to clapton wires and hey what you know! the burned taste had gone! i guess is bcos the wire heated up slowly and evenly (make sure you get it glowing in the middle) dual coil 6 wraps on 2.5mm screwdriver getting 0.5ohms.

Give it a try bro. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: BoUlToN

EU6EN3

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 1, 2013
173
61
red dot
thank you, please read my last comment and see if you can help me, yeh certainly don't just drip it in, i made that mistake once and once only. Hotspots have been my problem since day 1 and I've only just figured out it was them. How do i make sure I don't get them? It's only after 5-6 draws, not straight away.

Make sure the "legs" are as close to the poles as possible.
 

Attachments

  • clapton.jpg
    clapton.jpg
    120.2 KB · Views: 14

mountainbikermark

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jan 13, 2014
833
2,030
central Virginia
Thank you for the advice much appreciated, I've just found out my problem, it's hotspots on my coils burning my wick! Can't believe i never thought of that before! I thought i did everything right setting the coils up, how do i stop these hot spots burning my wick? I make sure they're firing up the same as eachother by pulsating the hit button, they look identical and I'm putting enough juice in the wick. I'm making my coils out of 26AWG kanthal, 4wraps, .28ohms and firing it 38-40watts. Experimented between 50 and 70watts before and still getting the same burnt draws after 5-6 hits. Where am i going wrong?
The hot spots is the culprit. Do this. Take your wicks out, get a pair of tweezers (ceramic if you've got them) and heat the coil until it's red. Let off the fire button and squeeze the coil gently with the tweezers. Repeat a couple of times but make sure you do NOT push the fire button while the tweezers touch the coil if they are not ceramic ones. You'll cause a dead short if you do. What you should see is your coil turn red from the center outward and no black spots or brighter red spots with short pulses.
Do the same with the other side. Once done with both sides fire it up until it turns red and see if they're both the same shade of red at the same time. If not, the side that is darker, repeat the process described above.
It won't take long to be able to do it quickly and as you wrap more coils you'll get better at no gaps or wider inner diameter in spots, thus less squeezing needed.
Go ahead and wick as usual if you're confident your wicking is good. I'm currently installing vertical coils only because they're so much easier to wick. Just push into the coil, pull from the bottom with tweezers until the bottom is just touching the bottom of the juice well. Fluff it out in the well as much as I can. Cut off the top about a quarter inch above the build deck posts. I then fluff it out as best as possible. I literally drip into the top of the drip tip and science takes over as gravity draws the juice down into the well, the well accepts any overflow that the cotton doesn't absorb, heat draws the juice back up when I push the fire button, gravity takes it back down as the coils coil, heat draws it back up, repeat. The wick stays wet longer, more puffs between refilling.
Hope that helps.

Support Our Troops!!!
Beast Mode 4
<><
 
  • Like
Reactions: BoUlToN

Sm0keydaBear

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
143
39
39
thank you, please read my last comment and see if you can help me, yeh certainly don't just drip it in, i made that mistake once and once only. Hotspots have been my problem since day 1 and I've only just figured out it was them. How do i make sure I don't get them? It's only after 5-6 draws, not straight away.


What I do when I want to make sure I will have no problems at all with hotspots, is I make the wicking as generally fat as the coil can handle without making the coil move as I weave the wicking material through, and then proceed as normal when it's made it to the other side.
 

BoUlToN

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2015
76
7
35
Bro.. i had a MX4 same like you i had this issue before. I always get the burn taste just after a few puffs and i tried all ways to solve the issue but to no avail. I tried 24g 4 wraps/ 6 wraps/ 8 wraps and all taste the same after a few puffs.

lastly i changed to clapton wires and hey what you know! the burned taste had gone! i guess is bcos the wire heated up slowly and evenly (make sure you get it glowing in the middle) dual coil 6 wraps on 2.5mm screwdriver getting 0.5ohms.

Give it a try bro. :)
Nice 1 mate, I've finally got abit of hope again now! Shame I'm stuck in Ireland in the middle of nowhere to get some.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread