Or they could just sell the same stuff online and avoid all the overheads. Their expenses really isn't our problem and some of them take advantage with huge markups knowing a lot of people are new to it and don't know when they're being ripped off.
How should I support my local shop?
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Or they could just sell the same stuff online and avoid all the overheads. Their expenses really isn't our problem and some of them take advantage with huge markups knowing a lot of people are new to it and don't know when they're being ripped off.
I buy canthal wire and silica, and sometimes empty bottles from vape shops because they are cheap and not that exciting as far as vape mail goes.
If it's not a sustainable business, your support won't make them successful. You're more than doing your part by continuing to buy juice and some batteries from them, and by seeing what they have that interests you.
I think MANY vape shops are NOT sustainable - that they haven't figured out how to keep people returning and how to compete with an online market.
There are ways to do it - but selling the same common products that they buy at about the same price their customers can get direct is not going to last - even if they are nice guys.
I think MANY vape shops are NOT sustainable - that they haven't figured out how to keep people returning and how to compete with an online market.
There are ways to do it - but selling the same common products that they buy at about the same price their customers can get direct is not going to last - even if they are nice guys.
Think it through, vape shop owners. How do you get us to buy from you?
1) If your product is UNIQUE, we might buy from you, regardless of pricing. So what could be higher margin, unique products?
- Juice. If you make juice, or want to, this is straightforward. This market has a high margin already, and you can join in. Make GOOD juice, and compete with the other good juice vendors - with no shipping cost, you'll be competitive.
2) SERVICE. Let's take a starter kit. Put together kits that meet the needs of your individual customers. Help them find the right top, the right battery, show them how to use it. Yes, they COULD assemble the same gear online, but maybe not with one vendor, and they might no know where to look, and if you've figured out by discussing their needs that they should get a Vamo and a ProTank2 and a delrin drip-tip, and that they'll be happier with 1.8 ohm coils, and should start at 18 mg and 50/50 - are they going to walk away then and shop for each item online? When you've got it all put together in a custom kit at a reasonable price? No - they'll buy it. In other words - provide the SERVICE of being REALLY GOOD at assessing the buyers needs and matching product to it.
3) Consumables. Why might I buy coils from you. Or batteries. Or flavorings. I think the best option here is to provide something WITH those consumables that I don't get online. Like training and support. People would buy Nicotine and flavors and pipettes and bottles from you - at more than they cost online - if you taught them how to mix juice. Don't you think? Have a weekly "make your own e-juice" beginners class every 2 weeks in the evening. You'll still sell YOUR juice, because yours is more complex, right? But people who learn from you how to make simple juices will keep coming back for more knowledge AND product. Same thing with coils - teach people how to rebuild. Same thing - hold classes in beginners and advanced coil-building. Sure, they MAY stop buying coils...but they'll come to you to help choose the right RBA, won't they? Or pick up some juice while their in the shop.
If you can't teach this stuff - hire someone who can.
Just some thoughts.
1) If your product is UNIQUE, we might buy from you, regardless of pricing. So what could be higher margin, unique products?
- Juice. If you make juice, or want to, this is straightforward. This market has a high margin already, and you can join in. Make GOOD juice, and compete with the other good juice vendors - with no shipping cost, you'll be competitive.
2) SERVICE. Let's take a starter kit. Put together kits that meet the needs of your individual customers. Help them find the right top, the right battery, show them how to use it. Yes, they COULD assemble the same gear online, but maybe not with one vendor, and they might no know where to look, and if you've figured out by discussing their needs that they should get a Vamo and a ProTank2 and a delrin drip-tip, and that they'll be happier with 1.8 ohm coils, and should start at 18 mg and 50/50 - are they going to walk away then and shop for each item online? When you've got it all put together in a custom kit at a reasonable price? No - they'll buy it. In other words - provide the SERVICE of being REALLY GOOD at assessing the buyers needs and matching product to it.
3) Consumables. Why might I buy coils from you. Or batteries. Or flavorings. I think the best option here is to provide something WITH those consumables that I don't get online. Like training and support. People would buy Nicotine and flavors and pipettes and bottles from you - at more than they cost online - if you taught them how to mix juice. Don't you think? Have a weekly "make your own e-juice" beginners class every 2 weeks in the evening. You'll still sell YOUR juice, because yours is more complex, right? But people who learn from you how to make simple juices will keep coming back for more knowledge AND product. Same thing with coils - teach people how to rebuild. Same thing - hold classes in beginners and advanced coil-building. Sure, they MAY stop buying coils...but they'll come to you to help choose the right RBA, won't they? Or pick up some juice while their in the shop.
If you can't teach this stuff - hire someone who can.
Just some thoughts.
I like your idea about mini-classes. I have thought about that one myself. If you can get some of your customers involved in vaping as a hobby, they will be bigger consumers of vaping supplies. Seems like a natural. Also support some events, maybe something as simple as a meet and greet. Anytime you can get people in your store there's a good chance that they will at least buy something.
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1) If they want to capitalise on juice there's no need for them to have a shop, they can sell it online. Everything else they sell, everyone else sells for the same extortionate prices. Good luck with that.
2) There are a million starter kits online that couldn't possibly be more basic and will always be much cheaper. People aren't stupid, a chat on a forum such as this and loads of people will immediately put you on the right track anyway. Get ripped off massively on price from any shop you will never, ever go back. Repeat business is the lifeblood of all shops.
3) Nobody is going to go to vaping tutorials when they can read all about it on the internet.
Sad fact... most vaping vendors are greedy and go for massive mark up to take advantage of the ignorance of people new to it and yes, they will make sales from this but these people will never come back because they have the internet and will work out pretty fast that they have been ripped off.
I don't expect shops to be cheaper than online but if they want to survive they need to tone their prices down a lot and people will come back. Nobody minds paying more to have something straight away but how much more? I have seen EVOD starter kits for 5 times what they cost online. That's a 'one off' sale right there, people won't come back unless it's to have something to say to said shop owner and it won't be pretty.
Too many fast buck opportunists on the street and that's the real reason it will never last outside of online sales. Just my opinion.
I have a great local vape shop with a fantastic owner that I've become friends with that I'm more then happy to support, BUT its still MY money that I'm spending and I don't have unlimited funds. I'm very fortunate that my local vendor doesn't charge an arm and a leg over what I can purchase most things for online, although I could find just about everything for less somewhere online if I wanted to. At this point in my vaping I have no needs, only occasional wants 
So most of what I do purchase is purchased from my local vendor.
I do believe in being honest when I've purchased something elseware, its so much easier that way, so he does know that I do still sometimes purchase things online. What I don't do is go into his store showing off my new purchases from the internet to all his other customers or rave in front of his customers about a great new juice from another vendor or even that most of the juice I vape is DIY.
No one should feel compelled to only purchase from a vendor they've become friends with if its going to cause financial hardship. NO vendor should make any customer, and you ARE still a customer, feel that they can ONLY purchase from their store.
If it were me, I'd have a private conversation about your desire to purchase that mod and be honest about the fact that you'd love to purchase from him, but at double the price you do need to think twice. I'd tell him you have no problem with a few dollars over what you can get things on the internet because you understand his overhead cost but in this case its more then just a couple dollars. His response will tell you IF he values your friendship as much as you appear to value it.
So most of what I do purchase is purchased from my local vendor. I do believe in being honest when I've purchased something elseware, its so much easier that way, so he does know that I do still sometimes purchase things online. What I don't do is go into his store showing off my new purchases from the internet to all his other customers or rave in front of his customers about a great new juice from another vendor or even that most of the juice I vape is DIY.
No one should feel compelled to only purchase from a vendor they've become friends with if its going to cause financial hardship. NO vendor should make any customer, and you ARE still a customer, feel that they can ONLY purchase from their store.
If it were me, I'd have a private conversation about your desire to purchase that mod and be honest about the fact that you'd love to purchase from him, but at double the price you do need to think twice. I'd tell him you have no problem with a few dollars over what you can get things on the internet because you understand his overhead cost but in this case its more then just a couple dollars. His response will tell you IF he values your friendship as much as you appear to value it.
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I also went to a new vape shop today that I found for the first time through online and even though I got some e juice through them today that will be it, there mark up is crazy, trying to charge $29.99 for a pro tank 2 or 3, crazy
I'm not so sure about that. You can lean anything on the internet, but people still take classes. I, for one, think it would be fun to hangout with like minded people for an afternoon and learn something new. I would go.
Evod kits are about $35-$40 online, so if they were 5 times higher, they would be at least $175. That's just crazy! I've never seen prices anywhere near that high.
I deal locally, and I like the shop. I'm willing to pay a higher price than online, but only within limit. Once I start hearing about overhead, salaries, insurance, etc. I remember an old bit of advice. "Quit telling us about the labor pains. Just show us the baby". Those expenses are common to every retailer from WalMart to the convenience store down the street. Most of them do okay. Some do very well. Those that don't, go away.
About 25% higher price before taxes is reasonable and expected for a B&M. Anymore than that it is a ripoff IMO. If you expect online prices in a B&M you need to educate yourself as to why this isn't possible. If 25% is too much then order it online and wait for it to show up. Before online shops opened up everyone was paying the higher prices for everything without batting an eye.
I see a lot of "B&Ms can't do online pricing because of X or Y" replies. While, in theory, this is somewhat true, there are PLENTY of B&M retailers that have online ordering that DO give great pricing. Madvapes is an example. They have multiple B&M stores, but their prices stay competitive, even in the online world. And they are turning profits even with multiple B&Ms.
It's more than possible. There has to be a line drawn between genuinely wanting to help the community, or wanting to make a giant profit. When a B&M can live with the middle ground and make a smaller profit while still selling gear (in an online and B&M atmosphere) at a reasonable price range, that is the kind of shops you should try to support the most.
It's more than possible. There has to be a line drawn between genuinely wanting to help the community, or wanting to make a giant profit. When a B&M can live with the middle ground and make a smaller profit while still selling gear (in an online and B&M atmosphere) at a reasonable price range, that is the kind of shops you should try to support the most.
Apples and Oranges.
Most B&M vape shops that also do online have online prices. The amount of product that is being moved is much more in these shops so margins can be thinner. What I am speaking of is single B&M that do not do online.
I have watched a couple of my local B&M vape shops transition to doing online. As they have increased the amount of product they are moving on-line, their in-store prices have reflected it.
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If you want to help support them then buy their juice. You can't help that they don't offer the item at a price that's reasonable to you. It's your money.
I have bought a few things from my local vape shop but mostly I buy everything online. And when I do buy things from that shop it's really more out of charity since I could get that item cheaper from my go to online vendor. But since there were so few vape shops in my area when i started vaping & I got into rebuildables fairly quickly there isn't much else I CAN buy from them other than an occasional evod head (for backup device) or juice. I wouldn't buy an ego type device from them since they don't sell genuine Joyetech & I'm just partial to having that brand. And as you said, wire can be purchased much cheaper online. So....yea.
I have bought a few things from my local vape shop but mostly I buy everything online. And when I do buy things from that shop it's really more out of charity since I could get that item cheaper from my go to online vendor. But since there were so few vape shops in my area when i started vaping & I got into rebuildables fairly quickly there isn't much else I CAN buy from them other than an occasional evod head (for backup device) or juice. I wouldn't buy an ego type device from them since they don't sell genuine Joyetech & I'm just partial to having that brand. And as you said, wire can be purchased much cheaper online. So....yea.
I understand your situation.
Honestly, anything you buy there, no matter how piddly, helps the shop. I agree, mods will always be cheaper online. If that's the more fiscally safer route, by all means, order over the Internet.
Just patronizing them at all, a bottle of juice, a wick, heck, just liking their FB page or spreading word of mouth helps. Don't ever underestimate what you can do to help.
Honestly, anything you buy there, no matter how piddly, helps the shop. I agree, mods will always be cheaper online. If that's the more fiscally safer route, by all means, order over the Internet.
Just patronizing them at all, a bottle of juice, a wick, heck, just liking their FB page or spreading word of mouth helps. Don't ever underestimate what you can do to help.
But there is the problem. The local B&Ms with high price markings never produce the kind of business flow to drop prices.
I think my paragraph was a little misleading. Probably because I am very tired.
What I was trying to get at overall was that there is a happy medium. A local vape shop worth supporting (to the point of being weary of buying things elsewhere like the OP) will know that happy medium. To some it's all about the profit and not helping and supporting the community. I know of one "home" vendor (who happens to also be a truck driver for a nationwide freight company) that I talk vape to everyday at work as he's picking up freight. He don't care about what he sells people. He just knows he can make $65 off of an eGo kit. He's talked about making his own B&M. These are the kind of vendors that we don't need in the community. They take advantage of people just starting out that don't know of any other outlets, don't know pricing, don't know lingo, etc. They use smooth talking to sell someone a FastTech kit for 600% markup.
I'll make an example of a B&M store here. They sell standard spinner batteries for $44. Their dual 900 mah eGo, disposable clearomizer kits are $80 They have multiple locations. Online store. Their stuff is rebranded to their own brand. Will I support my local B&M with practices like that? Not a chance. For them it's all image (hence the rebranded goods), and profits. The workers could not tell you how to rebuild a coil, and 2/3 working at the one closest to me only started vaping when they got a job at the store.
Blah, I'm blabbering on in my tiredness. Forgive me.
In today's ecig market, a new B&M is a terrible business model. We on ECF tend to live in a relatively narrow end of the ecig spectrum: blinged mods, cartos, carts, atty's, RBA's, mods that hook up to computers, ceramic wicks, Ecowool, Kanthal, micro coils, DIY juices, etc., etc., etc. As such, we are like a bunch of mad scientist hobbyists who have found their nirvana.
Go to the Blu subform and count the number of new posts and threads. It's only a tiny fraction of the other forums. Yet Blu claimed to have 10,000 retail locations in 2012. The folks buying Blus are not here on ECF.
Guess what? They do not want to be either and could care less about the things we ECF'ers hold near and dear to our hearts. A thread on a new Mod or RBA will generate more posts in a day than all the Blu posts in the last month combined.
As such, we want to be informed about everything and anything. Part of that is being savvy price shoppers, and the B&M's simply cannot compete with the internet pricing.
The B&M's will never attract the general vaping community because of the competition and convenience factor offered by conventional retail. The few B&M's I have visited do not even keep cigalikes in their display cases. Even tobacco shops carry ecig stuff, especially cigalikes.
The B&M's will not be able to keep the dedicated ECF style vapers because they cannot compete. There are a few very successful internet retailers who also offer conventional retail but they have been at it for a while, and their prices are fair and competitive. They also get volume pricing. Even TW closed their storefront a while back; not that I would buy from them again after I learned they rebranded everything and charged you extra for it.
The only way a B&M can succeed opening today is to have a magician who can blend juices where the mark ups are many multiples over hardware. Most of the juices I have tried in the various vape shops in the area are poor to terrible. Not all, but most.
So, if you support your local B&M, you will be supporting a lost cause- most of the time.
Go to the Blu subform and count the number of new posts and threads. It's only a tiny fraction of the other forums. Yet Blu claimed to have 10,000 retail locations in 2012. The folks buying Blus are not here on ECF.
Guess what? They do not want to be either and could care less about the things we ECF'ers hold near and dear to our hearts. A thread on a new Mod or RBA will generate more posts in a day than all the Blu posts in the last month combined.
As such, we want to be informed about everything and anything. Part of that is being savvy price shoppers, and the B&M's simply cannot compete with the internet pricing.
The B&M's will never attract the general vaping community because of the competition and convenience factor offered by conventional retail. The few B&M's I have visited do not even keep cigalikes in their display cases. Even tobacco shops carry ecig stuff, especially cigalikes.
The B&M's will not be able to keep the dedicated ECF style vapers because they cannot compete. There are a few very successful internet retailers who also offer conventional retail but they have been at it for a while, and their prices are fair and competitive. They also get volume pricing. Even TW closed their storefront a while back; not that I would buy from them again after I learned they rebranded everything and charged you extra for it.
The only way a B&M can succeed opening today is to have a magician who can blend juices where the mark ups are many multiples over hardware. Most of the juices I have tried in the various vape shops in the area are poor to terrible. Not all, but most.
So, if you support your local B&M, you will be supporting a lost cause- most of the time.
I bought 3 KFL's from my local B&M for $125 each. Some would say that was too much because they can be found on-line for $99. When I bought these they were nowhere to be found on-line. Also I was able to actually use one at the store to see if it would work for me. My latest mod I payed $15 more than on-line and I walked out of the store with it in hand.
Don't get me wrong, I buy a ton of stuff on-line to save money, but when I am splurging, or need something, and my local vape shop has what I want for slightly more, I will gladly pay it.
50% more hell no!!!!
Don't get me wrong, I buy a ton of stuff on-line to save money, but when I am splurging, or need something, and my local vape shop has what I want for slightly more, I will gladly pay it.
50% more hell no!!!!
You may think that everyone on ecf is into mods and rebuildables but you are mistaken. From what I have seen it is the opposite. Even more so with the much larger numbers of vapers who do not even visit ecf. Most are into disposable atty's/tanks and decent china mods. High end mods and rda/rba is a niche.
I have several local vape shops that 100% attract the general vaping community.
One has just about everything china that is any good and is busy as hell. The parking lot is full before they even open up for the day. I watched them open up shop in a very small hole in a small shopping strip. They expanded several times taking over other suites. After about 2 years in business they moved to another much larger shopping strip while opening a second large shop the next town over offering the same china made stuff.
The other lounge is more focused on High end mods/devices and juice. This is my favorite shop as they have what I am interested in. They are getting so busy now that I am sure they too will be expanding soon.
Plus we have about a dozen other shops that focus on the newbie vaper and ripping them off. These I expect to fail with time.
I'm in the same boat here. I understand that there is overhead associated with a B&M that will force them to have prices higher than their online counterparts, but when an eGo Twist 1100/CE4 kit is $70, and an 18650 is $19.00, I just can't be compelled to buy. It kills me how busy these places are. I just can't wrap my head around someone purchasing something without at least doing a cursory search to make sure they aren't getting bent over.
I picked up 2 bottles of liquid when I stopped by, a Summer Solstice and a Berry blend that they said were their most popular flavors. at $15 for 15ml I was very unhappy to find out I had just bought Thug Juice and Hawk Sauce. Needless to say I haven't been back.
I've been looking in to some retail options as the local market really deserves a shop that is more geared towards treating their customers fairly.
I picked up 2 bottles of liquid when I stopped by, a Summer Solstice and a Berry blend that they said were their most popular flavors. at $15 for 15ml I was very unhappy to find out I had just bought Thug Juice and Hawk Sauce. Needless to say I haven't been back.
I've been looking in to some retail options as the local market really deserves a shop that is more geared towards treating their customers fairly.
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