How to Get Around Future E Cig Taxes

[DC2]

In order to avoid summary removal from this group by Robino1, I have elevated stevegmu to the status of sole member of my list of ignored persons. My tolerance for [self-regulation] can only extend so far. Life is far to short to read some [oooops, requires additional self-regulation]. Man, good behavior is so difficult.

You can say "crap" on this forum.

 

[retired1]

Keep it to the topic at hand. Next time one of us has to wade through this thread, not so nice things are going to happen.

 

[AndriaD]

Second, money money money is required, unbelievable amounts of money is a prerequisite to litigation. That is why people apply to the ACLU for assistance - them ACLU has the money. It is also why cities cave to the ACLU upon the writing of a letter, cities don't care to fund a law suite against the ACLU (Christmas trees on the public square, Ten Commandments in public buildings).

Lastly, any lawyer worth his or her salt, will tell you as well I that it is very difficult to practice in a state with which one is unfamiliar. I am well versed for Kentucky but send me across the river to Ohio, I have no license; I have only a general as opposed to a specific knowledge of what to do and how to do it. Essentially without local Ohio counsel to assist, I would be in violation of the law as well as nearly an ignorant fool. Every state has a different substantive and procedural scheme. That is another advantage the ACLU has, they have many members in every state so local counsel and knowledge is always available.

This gets back to the question I posed in my reply to roly: where is the ACLU in all this? Clearly a great many state and local gov'ts are trying as hard as they can to violate the civil liberties of their vaping and smoking residents with their plans to impose all these impediments to vaping -- why isn't the ACLU working on this problem? And how can we get them to work on it?

Andria

 

[caramel]

Possibly because they don't want to be associated with "advocating smoking". It could undermine all their other efforts.

 

[caramel]

Some food for thought:

Tax haven - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[AndriaD]

Possibly because they don't want to be associated with "advocating smoking". It could undermine all their other efforts.

So they're as stupid as all the other idiots who think that vaping and smoking are the same thing??? I find it hard to believe that not one person who works for or is associated with the ACLU is a vaper.

Andria

 

[CMD-Ky]

This gets back to the question I posed in my reply to roly: where is the ACLU in all this? Clearly a great many state and local gov'ts are trying as hard as they can to violate the civil liberties of their vaping and smoking residents with their plans to impose all these impediments to vaping -- why isn't the ACLU working on this problem? And how can we get them to work on it?

Andria

The ACLU may be interested, see acluga.org. I think it is worth a shot, they may decline but so be it. I think it may cause them some heartburn in that I have not found them as "liberal" as they would like to see themselves but, if pitched right, they may look at the prohibitions. [Caramel's point above about their other efforts is a good example of the "heartburn" for the ACLU.]

If I was going to do this, I would prepare myself to show that a proposed ban has little to do with public health. The reason that I make that recommendation is that protection of the public, at least here in Kentucky, is the emotional hook by which the prohibitionists push their agenda. Prohibitionists claim the pubic is in danger due to the noxious chemicals being exhaled but I fail to see any proof (1) that there are noxious fumes or (2) that vaping endangers any non-vaper. Give it a shot, Andria, you have the passion of firmly held opinion, you have the ability to stay on point and you have the mind to do it.

 

[caramel]

So they're as stupid as all the other idiots who think that vaping and smoking are the same thing??? I find it hard to believe that not one person who works for or is associated with the ACLU is a vaper.

Andria

They're already described as baby killers by their opposition. Next would be to describe them "want to kill babies, and when that doesn't succeed, they'll put a cigar in their mouth".

 

[AndriaD]

The ACLU may be interested, see acluga.org. I think it is worth a shot, they may decline but so be it. I think it may cause them some heartburn in that I have not found them as "liberal" as they would like to see themselves but, if pitched right, they may look at the prohibitions. [Caramel's point above about their other efforts is a good example of the "heartburn" for the ACLU.]

If I was going to do this, I would prepare myself to show that a proposed ban has little to do with public health. The reason that I make that recommendation is that protection of the public, at least here in Kentucky, is the emotional hook by which the prohibitionists push their agenda. Prohibitionists claim the pubic is in danger due to the noxious chemicals being exhaled but I fail to see any proof (1) that there are noxious fumes or (2) that vaping endangers any non-vaper. Give it a shot, Andria, you have the passion of firmly held opinion, you have the ability to stay on point and you have the mind to do it.

Hmmm... It might be difficult to show any particular detriment to myself or my fellow GA vapers/smokers, because most of GA (with the notable exception of the GA university system, which has lumped vaping with smoking and banned all of it) is being remarkably sane and tolerant of vaping; my concern is primarily with the legal precedents being set in other localities, which obviously could be detrimental to any vaper/smoker anywhere in the US. And of course the federal-level stuff is a big concern. I'll look into it and see what I turn up. Thx!

Andria

 

[rolygate]

ACLU would probably need to wait for the federal regs first.

 

[beckdg]

for not wanting to go in to a rant here

But getting in to vaping has been the single most eye opening thing in my life in terms of the Government.
The government will not ever care about you, and they promote a fear mongering society, somehow, they have managed to convince the world that by raising the price of things that are seen as bad, in the form of taxes, people will stop doing it.

yes yes, give us money so you are dissuaded against doing it, and we will spend that money how we want, mostly by lining our suit pant pockets with it. expensive dinner meetings and the like.

former reptile owner... same thing
former fish keeper... same thing
have a family with dietary needs... same thing

i'm living a lifetime of repetitive firsts as far as gooberment corruption goes...

 

[CMD-Ky]

ACLU would probably need to wait for the federal regs first.

Why?

[add characters]

 

[zoiDman]

Why?

[add characters]

How would Anyone bring forth a Legal Action when they Don't even know what they are Fighting Against?

 

[Spencer87]

former reptile owner... same thing
former fish keeper... same thing
have a family with dietary needs... same thing

i'm living a lifetime of repetitive firsts as far as gooberment corruption goes...

You love reptiles too! I have two snakes, They my Babies!

But yea, the government... ah the government.

There are so many fronts that I dont agree with the government on.
I`ve even considered not voting, Not because I dont care about the outcome, or the reason that most people do not vote, but simply because I actively do not support any of the candidates (like I actively would vote against them if possible) and know that voting for one of the independent parties is going to be a waste.

I kinda thought about actively opposing, so not voting. I probably will end up voting now though

 

[klynnn]

I used to not care much about local elections, now I watch them as much as possible. These politicians have to start somewhere and best to nip them in the bud at the state/city/county level.

 

[DC2]

How would Anyone bring forth a Legal Action when they Don't even know what they are Fighting Against?

If there was anything we might want to consider fighting in court...
I'd love to see what could be done about hiring practices that discriminate against nicotine users.

 

[CMD-Ky]

How would Anyone bring forth a Legal Action when they Don't even know what they are Fighting Against?

The question is why would the ACLU "need" to wait for federal regulation. There are many local and state prohibitions and restrictions that are being enacted now. The ACLU could certainly wait for the feds but they could now easily address local prohibitions that that are completely unrelated to to federal regulations. Therefore. why the "need" to await the feds.?

The ACLU frequently acts locally, see manger scenes in town squares, Ten Commandments in local buildings and Christmas trees for instance. No federal regs there, right? Rolygate's "need" for the ACLU to await federal regulation is, well ...[self-regulation] not necessary.

 

[caramel]

well you fight 50 local ones then the feds come and turn it upside down and you're back to square one?

 

[CMD-Ky]

well you fight 50 local ones then the feds come and turn it upside down and you're back to square one?

Who knows, the local litigation may well be worth the effort. Often the war is won by winning smaller battles. A new presidential administration may well concede the field to the local victories - which if never engaged might simply be surrender.

 

[zoiDman]

The question is why would the ACLU "need" to wait for federal regulation. There are many local and state prohibitions and restrictions that are being enacted now. The ACLU could certainly wait for the feds but they could now easily address local prohibitions that that are completely unrelated to to federal regulations. Therefore. why the "need" to await the feds.?

The ACLU frequently acts locally, see manger scenes in town squares, Ten Commandments in local buildings and Christmas trees for instance. No federal regs there, right? Rolygate's "need" for the ACLU to await federal regulation is, well ...[self-regulation] not necessary.

Not Disagreeing with someone like the ACLU desire to fight on a State or Local Level. So no, the ACLU does not need to wait for the Anything.

My thoughts were more Aligned with the ACLU fighting against Federal Regulations.