How to make an unoxidized, hot spot free and cleanable coil

[proteckt3d]

Ok, will try heating with the lighter and then cleaning with a paper towel. I was also wondering what is the insulation of that kanthal wire because it looks like some metal. I remembered seeing nichrome covered in silk, this where C O Jelliff Resistance Wire Double Silk Covered 30 AWG | eBay

but we don't know the risks of silk and second it's very low resistant almost 3 ohms/foot

 

[DrMA]

Ok, will try heating with the lighter and then cleaning with a paper towel. I was also wondering what is the insulation of that kanthal wire because it looks like some metal. I remembered seeing nichrome covered in silk, this where C O Jelliff Resistance Wire Double Silk Covered 30 AWG | eBay

but we don't know the risks of silk and second it's very low resistant almost 3 ohms/foot

Silk is a protein. I'm not sure it would stand up to the kind of abuse our attys would subject it to (hot & wet).

I'm thinking there must be insulated nichrome or Kanthal coated in TiN or another titanium-based ceramic. Even some high-temp enamel might work... However, I've been unable to find something that would work in our application.

The closest I've come is this ebay item. It looks promising (at least it's the right color), though it's a bit thin for our purposes and the coating is not specified.
Insulated Resistance Wire Kanthal D 37 AWG 100 Ft | eBay

I'm not sure what the coating is as the seller does not list it, but it can't be metal (it's insulating).

Kanthal offers a variety of organic insulating coatings ("enamel"), but doesn't appear to have ceramic coatings available:
List of insulation coatings

The good news is that Polyimide enamel is extremely heat- and chemical-resistant. It can be operated up to 1000 hours at 315°C. We'd need to do more research into the safety of possible degradation products though...

 

[Dnerve]

[...]
so, anyone new tried it? can you report results?

btw, there is the video on the bottom of the first post.

Man, this is incredible! I did my very 1st genesis build (AGA-T+) yesterday after reading and watching a couple of videos citing your method. 1st result was ok with a persistent hotspot appearing between the wick and the post after 6-7s. I popped it on purpose this morning with a 10 sec glow.

I then found your video and tried again this afternoon (same non-oxidized solid wick) and followed your tips were to position the wires on the posts...SUCCESS! Tons of vapour and flavour @7.9W, 0.20mm A1 wire, 6 wraps, 1.9 Ohms!

Being completely noob in the world of geni rbas, I read so many fails that I was kinda afraid I would not make it. But this is so simple! 1st build took 45 minutes, today's 30! I'm sure you can do that in 10-15 minutes! And being able to pull the wick to clean it gives even less hassle!


Thanks so much!

 

[Dominicanto]

Waiting patiently for my AGA-T2 and hoping I'll avoid the troubles many others have faced with their gennies when first attempting a build.

Biggest worry I've had is with the issue of Chromium and possibly doing myself more harm than good in vaping a genny. I just know that I can't vape silica anymore (my throat is killing me and my arms itch when I touch the stuff) so here's hoping my best days of vaping are ahead of me and that this method helps mitigate some of the fears I have about SS in general. Thanks Petar for sharing your ingenuity and for everyone else who has chimed in and made it easier for all of us noobs to get going.

 

[Horselady154]

Is there a way to make this work on a Z-Atty-Pro? I'm kind of freaking after reading the thread about the chromium from oxidized ss wicks and am looking for an alternative. Thanks.

 

[thedesbois]

Horselady: I've made it work on my Z-Atty-U which is identical under the hood. See my post at #78.

Let me know if I can be of assistance.

Short answer: hell yeah!

 

[Bejeebus]

I had been reading this thread for a few days - and yesterday decided to give it a go on my Zenesis Standard. I had a 325 mesh wick sitting around that I had rolled months ago - it wasn't oxidized. I ran a lighter flame up and down the length of it very lightly! No glowing at all.

I wanted to keep the insulator in the wick hole, so I found the right sized bit to slide into the insulator (3/32).
I measured out 2 inches of 30g Kanthal and did a 5/4 wrap around that bit.
After making sure the coils were spread out evenly (bottom post to top post is just under 1/2 inch on this atty) I then attached the coil. Pulsed it til it glowed nice n even.
I then slid the un-ox wick (which had already been rolled to fit through the insulator) through the coil and into my tank o juice.
Using EDO's suggestion, I tipped my unit horizontally and firing it 5 times for 10 seconds - which got the coil nicely set onto the wick.

All I can say is that it took me longer to type this out then it did to actually do it. yay!

Thank you Petar!

 

[Dnerve]

Well, all the grandeur is gone, on the 2nd day I decided to have a look at my coil while vaporising....

Seems I'm the victim of the junction between the wick and center post. I've played with the coils, recoiled...Ends turning up no matter what...Im starting to think my only wick is crap... but I have to wait for my #500 mesh to arrive...

 

[proteckt3d]

Well, all the grandeur is gone, on the 2nd day I decided to have a look at my coil while vaporising....

Seems I'm the victim of the junction between the wick and center post. I've played with the coils, recoiled...Ends turning up no matter what...Im starting to think my only wick is crap... but I have to wait for my #500 mesh to arrive...

I never had this issue yet, but I remember seeing some talk about this in the RBA sub-forum but don't know exactly where, if I'll find something I can notify you. I'm no expert but you should try moving the dry wick slightly up or down on the coil and fire it red, in short breaks, that may help. Maybe this video can help? Ribbon Kanthal Setup. - YouTube

It could also be that your most top coil is not "hugging" the wick properly?

 

[Dnerve]

I never had this issue yet, but I remember seeing some talk about this in the RBA sub-forum but don't know exactly where, if I'll find something I can notify you. I'm no expert but you should try moving the dry wick slightly up or down on the coil and fire it red, in short breaks, that may help. Maybe this video can help? Ribbon Kanthal Setup. - YouTube

It could also be that your most top coil is not "hugging" the wick properly?

Top coil "hug" seems fine, tension across the wick seems fine. Being my 1st contact with a Genny type rba, all I had to go by was the piece of mesh that came with the aga t+. I'm waiting for my#500 mesh to try another wick. The one I made is solid and lost the last folded bit a I had to unroll a bit being to thick and ended up with a "rough edge" (even if it can't be seen). Weird bit is that when the wick is dry, rest of the coil glows evenly at a lower brightness than the center post junction. Also the coil doesn't pop even at 7-8W for 10 sec. It's just the leg that gets quite bright.

I've decided to go non-oxidized and intend to keep it that way. Would using a NR setup for the center post junction make sense (just built my welder for my other attys )? Or would that be "cheating". I want to understand the setup and not use shortcuts...

 

[proteckt3d]

Yes, sounds good and I think no one will consider cheating because what works for you is what is best. To my understanding that rough edge might be the source of the hot spot because it has those loose, small wires that can be barely seen. I cut that edge carefully with my scissors but you could also fold the edge inside if you want.

Off topic, you built your own welder? That's cool, I would like to know more about this. Did you follow a tutorial? How long did it take to build it?

 

[petar k]

i guess proteckt3d is right, but i would like to see some (close up) photos of your coil.

 

[TBinAZ]

Like proteckt3d says, there is no such thing as cheating if it works. Try this, double up and twist the length of wire that travels from the drill bit to the center pos post. It will be a little tedious to get it just right, but might help in your case. I have found that nudging around the coil loops while pulsing takes care of any differences in conductivity. You will have an "aha" moment, guaranteed.

Top coil "hug" seems fine, tension across the wick seems fine. Being my 1st contact with a Genny type rba, all I had to go by was the piece of mesh that came with the aga t+. I'm waiting for my#500 mesh to try another wick. The one I made is solid and lost the last folded bit a I had to unroll a bit being to thick and ended up with a "rough edge" (even if it can't be seen). Weird bit is that when the wick is dry, rest of the coil glows evenly at a lower brightness than the center post junction. Also the coil doesn't pop even at 7-8W for 10 sec. It's just the leg that gets quite bright.

I've decided to go non-oxidized and intend to keep it that way. Would using a NR setup for the center post junction make sense (just built my welder for my other attys )? Or would that be "cheating". I want to understand the setup and not use shortcuts...

 

[D4rk50ul]

Would wrapping the top of the coil or the entire coil with something like this then wrapping your coil regularly completely solve this issue? Forgive my ignorance I look for simple solutions to problems first.

NearSea Naturals: Pecan Leno

Oh yeah and for a small description of the chromium found in cigarettes here is a decent article.

http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/cancer-info/healthyliving/smokingandtobacco/whatsinacigarette/smoking-and-cancer-whats-in-a-cigarette

I think it may be overreacting to something we have been ingesting for years anyways, but why not try to fix it.

 

[TBinAZ]

Good thought, but my take is that the material will be too thick to use. Have you tried wrapping a bit of cigarette paper around the wick where the coil will contact? It also works well for insulating the mesh from contacting the wall of the wick hole. There are a few vids out there.

Would wrapping the top of the coil or the entire coil with something like this then wrapping your coil regularly completely solve this issue? Forgive my ignorance I look for simple solutions to problems first.

NearSea Naturals: Light Summercloth

 

[D4rk50ul]

Good thought, but my take is that the material will be too thick to use. Have you tried wrapping a bit of cigarette paper around the wick where the coil will contact? It also works well for insulating the mesh from contacting the wall of the wick hole. There are a few vids out there.

I ordered some of the organic cotton that is a wider mesh and very low weight per square inch, just to create a buffer between metals. I will update once I get it all in and build a wick.

Sent from my Nexus 4

 

[gomjabbar]

maybe this is why this works...and it works great btw.

"For heating, resistance wire must be stable in air when hot. Kanthal FeCrAl alloy forms a protective layer of aluminum oxide (alumina).[1] Aluminium oxide is an electrical insulator but has a relatively high thermal conductivity; special techniques may be required to make good electrical connections."

the testing done on the oxidized ss mesh didnt find CrVI (chromium hexavalent) on the ss that was heated to 900f. I believe this is above the temperature of a dry burn but I couldnt find the orange glow temp of kanthal. kanthal melts at 1200f so its well below that im sure.

 

[BikerBob]

maybe this is why this works...and it works great btw.

"For heating, resistance wire must be stable in air when hot. Kanthal FeCrAl alloy forms a protective layer of aluminum oxide (alumina).[1] Aluminium oxide is an electrical insulator but has a relatively high thermal conductivity; special techniques may be required to make good electrical connections."

the testing done on the oxidized ss mesh didnt find CrVI (chromium hexavalent) on the ss that was heated to 900f. I believe this is above the temperature of a dry burn but I couldnt find the orange glow temp of kanthal. kanthal melts at 1200f so its well below that im sure.

What temperature is it when the coil 'pops'? Does it just melt, or is it vaporized?

 

[Sir Center Fire]

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