How WTA from Aroma Ejuice make me feel

[snork]

I'm very familiar with the effect WTA has on me, having been one of the earliest adopters when Aroma first began offering it. The first sensorial effect is a very natural throat hit. That's one of my favorite things about it and that type of throat hit was one of the biggest things I had been missing since converting to vaping.
Physically and psychologically it provides a sense of satisfaction and relaxation. The time it takes to obtain these effects varies and it's hard to pinpoint - I liken it to having a headache and taking a pain reliever. You really aren't aware of when your headache goes away, but it does and sometime after the fact you realize how much better you feel. For me, WTA has never been like a one toot wonder, more like a miracle pain reliever.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I'm very familiar with the effect WTA has on me, having been one of the earliest adopters when Aroma first began offering it. The first sensorial effect is a very natural throat hit. That's one of my favorite things about it and that type of throat hit was one of the biggest things I had been missing since converting to vaping.
Physically and psychologically it provides a sense of satisfaction and relaxation. The time it takes to obtain these effects varies and it's hard to pinpoint - I liken it to having a headache and taking a pain reliever. You really aren't aware of when your headache goes away, but it does and sometime after the fact you realize how much better you feel. For me, WTA has never been like a one toot wonder, more like a miracle pain reliever.

I firmly believe that many could vape it and think there is no difference at all between this and regular juice. However, if one is sensitive to their own body and not looking for a magic trick, then it will reveal itself in a quite sincere manner. I love the headache to pain reliever parallel--it is not a light switch, more like a dimmer control.

 

[ohai]

Ok, I have an interesting sort of thought process/question going on... and I've never tried a WTA liquid, and am only just learning about natural tobacco extracts, so if I'm asking something newbish, it's because I'm a newb.

I tried a sample of the naturally extracted HHV Gandolf courtesy of the ever so generous Mr Mann )) earlier this week, and immediately ordered a giant bottle of the stuff, which arrived today. The flavor is slightly subdued, because obviously, it hasn't had a chance to steep, but I've been vaping it anyway, because I'm in love with it, and it really is a markedly more soothing and satisfying experience for me than anything I've vaped to date, just as I noticed when I first tried it. In spite of some rather stressful ongoing personal situations, my anxiety levels have just been consistently melting back since I started dripping this stuff. So I guess what I'm asking is if the process used to create a naturally extracted tobacco flavor could be bringing WTAs along with the flavor- because I do feel different- I feel much calmer than I have in two days. Something is different.

 

[ohai]

Hmmm... so it's bad form to reply to your own post, but I found something that may be interesting. I posted a link to a patent application for a tobacco extraction process in another thread, in which several variations of a method using an espresso machine and pasteurized, finely ground tobacco is described, and the resulting extract tested (emphasis mine):

Example 13

Residual Nicotine in Tobacco Extract--Examples 1, 2, 3

[0060] The remaining nicotine content of the tobacco extract was measured to determine the efficacy of the extraction methods described above for Examples 1-3. The tobacco extracts prepared using the methods of Example 1-3 were sent for nicotine testing with the following results:

TABLE-US-00002 TABLE 2 Limit of Quantitation Sample: Tested for: (LoQ) Found Tobacco Nicotine 2500 ppm Below LoQ Extract from Nornicotine 100 ppm Below LoQ Example 1 Myosmine 25 ppm Below LoQ Anabasine 25 ppm Below LoQ Anatabine 100 ppm Below LoQ Tobacco Nicotine 2500 ppm 4212 ppm Extract from Nornicotine 100 ppm 162 ppm Example 2 Myosmine 25 ppm Below LoQ Anabasine 25 ppm Below LoQ Anatabine 100 ppm 103 ppm Tobacco Nicotine 2500 ppm 38,918 ppm Extract from Nornicotine 100 ppm 2151 ppm Example 3 Myosmine 25 ppm Below LoQ Anabasine 25 ppm 140 ppm Anatabine 100 ppm 1083 ppm


If some kind chemistry major (or really anyone smarter than me- that shouldn't be difficult ) were to come along and take a look, I'd be really interested in hearing whether or not these trace amounts could be at all significant.

 

[dragonbone]

I'm very interested in trying WTA, but Aroma doesn't ship international. Does anyone know of a vendor who does. Any tips much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[radiokaos]

Hmmm... so it's bad form to reply to your own post, but I found something that may be interesting. I

If some kind chemistry major (or really anyone smarter than me- that shouldn't be difficult ) were to come along and take a look, I'd be really interested in hearing whether or not these trace amounts could be at all significant.

It is a poor method for extraction along with very low yields of the minor alkaloids.

 

[ohai]

It is a poor method for extraction along with very low yields of the minor alkaloids.

So what would be considered a good yield, then? How much of the alkaloids would need to be there to produce the desired effect?

(The method itself doesn't particularly interest me, except as it concerns the potential of naturally extracted tobacco to contain WTAs almost by accident, as it were.)

 

[radiokaos]

So what would be considered a good yield, then? How much of the alkaloids would need to be there to produce the desired effect?

(The method itself doesn't particularly interest me, except as it concerns the potential of naturally extracted tobacco to contain WTAs almost by accident, as it were.)

I think taking some chem classes might help....otherwise you can go with Naturally extracted tobacco.

The yields on NET are very small but its easy to do.

The term naturally extracted tobacco is not really well defined, and it is NOT synonymous to Whole Tobacco Alkaloids.

 

[ohai]

I think taking some chem classes might help....otherwise you can go with Naturally extracted tobacco. The yields on NET are very small but its easy to do.

I'm not sure I get what you're saying here- I'm not trying to make the stuff, I'm just interested in knowing what levels would be considered good as opposed to very low. I understand that the levels of WTA in the end product are fairly low to begin with, but I don't have a frame of reference to compare the above levels to what a dedicated WTA product would contain.

The term naturally extracted tobacco is not really well defined, and it is NOT synonymous to Whole Tobacco Alkaloids.

I'm sorry if you thought I was implying that it was- I was asking if naturally extracted tobacco could potentially have levels of WTAs in them significant enough to have any kind of effect on the end user similar to the effects experienced by users of WTA eliquids.

It would be interesting to me for several reasons, the first of which being that I'm considering whether or not I'd like to try WTA for myself, and also because of my reaction to trying a NET for the first time and feeling a sense of satisfaction and a calming effect very unlike other eliquids. I realize there are too many variables involved to make predicting what any given NET might contain a possibility, which is why I asked about the levels in the example from the patent document above.

I also think it could be useful for people in general to know that they might have been consuming small amounts of WTA all along in certain juices and liking it without realizing why they liked it, which could lessen the over-all paranoia factor that can creep into the debate. It was kind of an "a-ha!" moment for me when it dawned on me that that could be it.

 

[radiokaos]

I'm not sure I get what you're saying here- I'm not trying to make the stuff, I'm just interested in knowing what levels would be considered good as opposed to very low. I understand that the levels of WTA in the end product are fairly low to begin with, but I don't have a frame of reference to compare the above levels to what a dedicated WTA product would contain.



I'm sorry if you thought I was implying that it was- I was asking if naturally extracted tobacco could potentially have levels of WTAs in them significant enough to have any kind of effect on the end user similar to the effects experienced by users of WTA eliquids.

It would be interesting to me for several reasons, the first of which being that I'm considering whether or not I'd like to try WTA for myself, and also because of my reaction to trying a NET for the first time and feeling a sense of satisfaction and a calming effect very unlike other eliquids. I realize there are too many variables involved to make predicting what any given NET might contain a possibility, which is why I asked about the levels in the example from the patent document above.

I also think it could be useful for people in general to know that they might have been consuming small amounts of WTA all along in certain juices and liking it without realizing why they liked it, which could lessen the over-all paranoia factor that can creep into the debate. It was kind of an "a-ha!" moment for me when it dawned on me that that could be it.

I'm limited to what I can say here due to TOS.

However I can point you to good answer regarding NET's.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...cco-nicotine-flavor-chemists-perspective.html

Soaking tobacco for nicotine and flavor - A chemists' perspective


by
DVap


Here's a topic I've addressed a number of times in various threads, but I thought I might discuss it here.

What can one expect from soaking tobacco in various solvents (alcohol, PG, VG) to get some real tobacco flavor and/or nicotine?

As far as getting flavor, that's a pretty easy question. If you soak and get a result that you like (either as a liquid in itself or as a flavor additive to regular eliquid) and you don't mind the extra wear and tear on your attys, you've done good. (Assuming you accept that anything that involves soaking tobacco will be less "safe" than good clean regular e-liquid).

As far as getting an appreciable nicotine concentration, soak procedures are self-limiting. What I mean by this is simply that the more tobacco you soak (your nicotine source), the more solvent it's going to take to get nicotine to come out of the tobacco.

Here's a practical example:

You have 1 gram of tobacco. It's likely that this 1 gram of tobacco contains around 20 mg of nicotine. If you use 1 mL of PG to extract it, you could get as much as 20 mg/mL, right?

Wrong.

How much of the nicotine will come out? Maybe 50% if you're feeling generous, probably less. So now we're down from 20 mg/mL to 10 mg/mL. But what's this? When we add 1 mL of PG to 1 gram of tobacco, the tobacco just slurps up the PG.

So we add more PG, say 5 mL total. Now we've got some liquid on top to extract into.. but now we're putting that 10 mg nicotine (tops!) into 5 mL of PG, so we're down to 2 mg/mL and we've still made brown goo.

You see the problem.

 

[ohai]

I'm limited to what I can say here due to TOS.

Disappointing, but not unexpected.

My curiosity about the appreciable differences in the actual alkaloid levels present is not intended to imply that they are too small, which could potentially - and fallaciously- appear to make WTA seem less special. A measurable, reproducible effect has intrinsically more value than a random, unmeasured and accidental effect, and that is what is exciting to me personally about your product.

I am thinking that at this point, you just don't trust me or other possible readers to understand that. Which is understandable, considering the information that has been twisted and used in a negative way. Some of us really are discerning enough consumers to separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to that kind of misinformation, and really are just interested in getting as much real information as we possibly can out in the open.

However I can point you to good answer regarding NET's.

Ahhh, well, ok, not really. I can google it and find more recent methodology than 2010, but that's really not what I was looking for.

Thanks for your time.

 

[DeJaVou42]

I've tried both the Virginia and DK-Tab 12mg juices from Aroma E-juice on two separate occasions. What I was expecting to happen was a calming effect, a slight buzz, and a feeling of satisfaction (like I didn't need to vape anymore). What happened was absolutely nothing. For me, the juice seems to be high quality, but that is about it.

A little background info on me:
I've not smoked an analog in 8 months, or had any other form of tobacco (I.E Snus, snuff, etc.) I used to get a buzz with the first cigarette in the morning when I smoked, and I did feel like there was something missing when I quit smoking. Although, I was completely satisfied with throwing the habit for a more healthy one. I felt like I was the perfect candidate for WTA juice, but like I said it just didn't work for me.

My parents both smoke and I've bought them numerous devices to get them into vaping. They are still at the stage where they want something to taste as much like an analog as possible. I'm interested in seeing if the WTA juice makes the transition easier for them.

 

[radiokaos]

Disappointing, but not unexpected.

...

I am thinking that at this point, you just don't trust me or other possible readers to understand .

Not the case...I'm limited to what I can discuss on sub forums outside of mine own sub forum.

If you come to a suppliers sub forum and post the same question they have more leeway to discuss topics similar to this one without violating terms of service.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mr.Mann]

What I was expecting to happen was a calming effect, a slight buzz, and a feeling of satisfaction (like I didn't need to vape anymore).

That is unfortunate that your expectations were not met. Waiting for something to happen is a tall order for a juice, irrespective of minor alkaloids. Expecting "a slight buzz" is the quickest way to block "a calming effect", if there is one.

 

[DeJaVou42]

That is unfortunate that your expectations were not met.

I don't look at it that way. I'm happy that I tried wta, but I know that its just not for me.

 

[KDude]

I think I already do getting that calming buzz right in the morning. It's not as intense as analogs, but it's still similar. And like analogs, the effect goes away the more I vape through the day. I think it's just the nicotine effect, if you've been without it for awhile. Additionally, I think the real difference with analogs is not other alkaloids, but how tobacco companies have geared their nicotine into freebase form. It's meant to hit you intensely right away, and ovetime, intentionally creating the cigarette equivalent of crackheads out of their customers. Even so called "natural" tobaccos, like American Spirit, have freebase nicotine. In fact, they have higher percentages than mainstream brands. Go figure.

What people are missing is that freebase experience. Needless to say, it's best to forget about it. People simplify what a cigarette is, but billions of dollars and a lot of thought was put into making them what they are. Trying to recreate that experience isn't going to happen, without making vaping ingredients just as bizarre and deadly.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I think I already do getting that calming buzz right in the morning. It's not as intense as analogs, but it's still similar. And like analogs, the effect goes away the more I vape through the day. I think it's just the nicotine effect, if you've been without it for awhile. Additionally, I think the real difference with analogs is not other alkaloids, but how tobacco companies have geared their nicotine into freebase form. It's meant to hit you intensely right away, and ovetime, intentionally creating the cigarette equivalent of crackheads out of their customers. Even so called "natural" tobaccos, like American Spirit, have freebase nicotine. In fact, they have higher percentages than mainstream brands. Go figure.

What people are missing is that freebase experience. Needless to say, it's best to forget about it. People simplify what a cigarette is, but billions of dollars and a lot of thought was put into making them what they are. Trying to recreate that experience isn't going to happen, without making vaping ingredients just as bizarre and deadly.

I still have a blue box of American Spirits right at my vape station, and I never even think about it. It is odd that I see it everyday and never once have that desire--it's just a keepsake, I guess?

 

[KDude]

I still have a blue box of American Spirits right at my vape station, and I never even think about it. It is odd that I see it everyday and never once have that desire--it's just a keepsake, I guess?

That makes quitting smoking even more awesome. That you can stare a pack down and not give a care.

I can do that, but the smell of a lit one tempts me.

 

[Mr.Mann]

That makes quitting smoking even more awesome. That you can stare a pack down and not give a care.

I can do that, but the smell of a lit one tempts me.

I once said "smelling someone smoking is like walking down the street and passing a woman that wears the same perfume as your ex."

 

[ohai]

I once said "smelling someone smoking is like walking down the street and passing a woman that wears the same perfume as your ex."

That's perfect.