I don't believe e-cigs are safe.........

[YellowRose2007]

OOPS... NASTY CIGARETTE will ever be. As far as anything that could effect a child or adult for that matter weather it be smoke or vapor their health is more important then me enjoying a e-cig! As of now I found the joose I so love and my husband is not sneezing and loves the sweet smell on me and our home! However I would like to know why or how in the heck we hadn't heard of the wonderful life of vapping until now??????

 

[brittanyNI]

Well ... I don't believe e-cigs are absolutely safe either. I sincerely doubt that what is exhaled is water only -- devoid of all nicotine, VG, PG, flavoring matter, etc. Some amount of these has to be exhaled. And the e-liquid manufacturers don't tell us what the flavoring ingredients are.

I am not so worried about the residual nicotine, VG or PG. You get nicotine anytime you eat eggplant or peppers. But the flavoring matter is not disclosed and conceivably be just about anything -- and people can be allergic to practically anything. That's why I vape outside.

There is no such thing as absolutely safe. I just do the best I can to make things as safe as I can.

 

[swedishfish]

OOPS... NASTY CIGARETTE will ever be. As far as anything that could effect a child or adult for that matter weather it be smoke or vapor their health is more important then me enjoying a e-cig! As of now I found the joose I so love and my husband is not sneezing and loves the sweet smell on me and our home! However I would like to know why or how in the heck we hadn't heard of the wonderful life of vapping until now??????

You didn't know the password or secret handshake. I wish I had tried it years ago!

 

[fi3nds]

Try PG ... if that doesnt work try VG... if that doesnt work try PG/VG if that doesnt work try PEG400

 

[YellowRose2007]

So very true! My son's hated smoking! One still hates it and the other well he smokes. However he did start vapping with me and stopped all of it with in 2 to 3 weeks but I did see he went out and bought a pack just a few days ago and tried to hide it from me! Not going to happen because now that I started vapping I can smell EVERYTHING!

 

[Expletive Deleted]

Not one of us is a chemist? a doctor? a researcher at a university? There's not one of us out there that could possibly get a grant for an independent study? or fund an independent study? We could really get to the bottom of the safety issue, if we just got together and did some science. Right?

 

[brittanyNI]

Hypothetically speaking, if I were a chemist, it wouldn't matter. Perhaps I am cynical, but I believe that very often research reflects the biases of whoever will fund it and furthermore independent research is often seen as non-credible just by virtue of the fact it is independent, especially if it fails to confirm dominant notions.

Basically, science has become politicized and is no longer objective.

So pretend I run the exhaled vapor through a mass spectrometer to determine its constituents (qualitative); and then use high performance liquid chromatography to determine how much of each (quantitative) ... what would it mean? Those results would apply to just that particular e-cigarette using that particular e-juice having run through my particular lungs. So anything I put forth would not be generalizable.

So pretend I did something similar with 1,000 users each of every conceivable e-juice and e-cigarette combination. (There could be a difference in constituents based upon changes made by the varying atomizer temperatures, etc.) After that, I would have a pretty good idea of what was in the exhaled vapor.

But what if my results said that the exhaled vapor were even more dangerous than 2nd hand tobacco smoke? (Remember, we're just playing pretend.) What if they showed that the generally-recognized-as-safe (GAS) ingredients in e-juice, when subjected to a hot atomizers become highly carcinogenic substances etc?

I know what would happen: the e-cig industry would shout me down and I'd be called a crackpot pseudo-scientist etc.

And the exact same thing would happen if I showed it to be rich in beneficial cancer-preventing anti-oxidants. Detractors would go nuts.

Basically if, hypothetically, I were a scientist, I would consider such an endeavor to be a waste of my time unless I were getting a government grant to confirm an existing politically correct bias; at which point my research would yield the expected results anyway.

 

[Expletive Deleted]

Basically if, hypothetically, I were a scientist, I would consider such an endeavor to be a waste of my time unless I were getting a government grant to confirm an existing politically correct bias; at which point my research would yield the expected results anyway.

Well shut my mouth and shatter my dreams. Is it really that hopeless?

 

[swedishfish]

Hypothetically speaking, if I were a chemist, it wouldn't matter. Perhaps I am cynical, but I believe that very often research reflects the biases of whoever will fund it and furthermore independent research is often seen as non-credible just by virtue of the fact it is independent, especially if it fails to confirm dominant notions.

Basically, science has become politicized and is no longer objective.

So pretend I run the exhaled vapor through a mass spectrometer to determine its constituents (qualitative); and then use high performance liquid chromatography to determine how much of each (quantitative) ... what would it mean? Those results would apply to just that particular e-cigarette using that particular e-juice having run through my particular lungs. So anything I put forth would not be generalizable.

So pretend I did something similar with 1,000 users each of every conceivable e-juice and e-cigarette combination. (There could be a difference in constituents based upon changes made by the varying atomizer temperatures, etc.) After that, I would have a pretty good idea of what was in the exhaled vapor.

But what if my results said that the exhaled vapor were even more dangerous than 2nd hand tobacco smoke? (Remember, we're just playing pretend.) What if they showed that the generally-recognized-as-safe (GAS) ingredients in e-juice, when subjected to a hot atomizers become highly carcinogenic substances etc?

I know what would happen: the e-cig industry would shout me down and I'd be called a crackpot pseudo-scientist etc.

And the exact same thing would happen if I showed it to be rich in beneficial cancer-preventing anti-oxidants. Detractors would go nuts.

Basically if, hypothetically, I were a scientist, I would consider such an endeavor to be a waste of my time unless I were getting a government grant to confirm an existing politically correct bias; at which point my research would yield the expected results anyway.

That's not exactly true. I worked in research for many years.

 

[Paddrino]

I never smoked in front of my son. I don't want him seeing it, and I don't want him thinking that it is ok because his dad smoked.

With vaping I take the same stance. I never vape in front of him, and I keep my pv in my pocket or in our (wife and my) bedroom.

I do vape in the house. My wife is pregnant, and I never vape close to her.

So far we haven't seen any "family" side affects. Everyone in the family has airborne allergies, but they have not been any worse this year than any other years past.

When I did smoke regularly, I never smoked indoors. When my son was young he had some respiratory problems until I stopped smoking for a while. I know it was a result of the smoke on my clothes etc, so I stopped for a few years.

When I started up again due to heavy stress in my life, I never smoked in the house (always in the car).

When I got my pv I vaped in the house because my wife said she didn't smell anything.

As many have said here I think it could be just a small percentage that have bad reactions. Lots of people have allergies they don't know about. My wife never had any airborne allergies until we moves to our current city. She always thought that she didn't have allergies, but she was allergic to something. It was just that she never was exposed to what she is allergic to. I think the same thing applies to vaping.

Good job identifying this with your children, and good job limiting their exposure to vaping!!! Although I don't believe that your experience is universal, I do agree that there might be something to your observations. I have seen several threads from people that have bad reactions to vaping, but I also see tons of people saying they had suicidal thoughts while on chantix, yet some people take it for months with no side affects. Everyone is unique, and it is up to you and your own observations to find what works and doesn't work for you.

 

[brittanyNI]

That's not exactly true. I worked in research for many years.

You are right, I am sort of being extreme to make the general point that there ARE biases that show up in research. So what I said is definitely not exactly true.

Still, if Philip Morris and RJ Reynolds were to give me a $20M grant to study the adverse effects of e-cig exhaled vapor and the results showed e-cigs to be dangerous -- you have to admit you would wonder if the source of my funding somehow biased my results. Maybe I would be totally honest no matter what and maintain my scientific integrity. But it would still be questioned.

For anything to be dispositive there would have to be gobs of studies by different teams all over the place with a variety of funding sources.

Obviously, personally, I am convinced that e-cigs are comparatively less harmful. But less harmful is not the same thing as safe. But I could be completely wrong about that. I have never fired up the test gear and looked. Anecdotally I feel better -- but that doesn't mean anything.

 

[Mike Honcho]

I stealth vape when my daughter is around, although she has caught me a few times. The vapor has never bothered her, but reading all this has me thinking I'll be taking trips to the kitchen "to get something" more often, or making sure windows are open and fans are running when I vape.

 

[jamminloud]

Well, this is all very dissapointing. Here I thought I had found a totally non-invasive form of "pseudo-smoking" for those around me. Although it may not be totally safe for me, I guess it was wishful thinking on my part that the vapor completely dissipated. Maybe it's my smeller since I'm a newb who recently quit analogs, but I can't smell anything left over in the house from vaping. And I have not seen any of the "vaportrails in the sunlight" either. Darn it! I don't want to be banished to the outdoors again. Ya'll have me worried about my furry little four legged kids. My human one's are grown and gone.

 

[earthpig]

I think this is being blown way out of proportion.

We know from whats available how many have reactions to e-cig vapor, straight from the e-cig to the lungs.
It (from my reading) is only ~4% have reactions when ""fully inhaling vapor"" right from the e-cig, and we know in doing so it is 100x (minimum) safer than cigs (some suspect >1400X safer)....then....
when exhaled and dispersed to a degree of which it is from the actual source, how much less is the possibility of reaction with 2nd hand vape?
Ok, so say my 4% is off. Use 10% if you feel like being on a totally pushed safe side, and use the general info from above.

Even 2nd hand smoke is (by many) considered to be safe, and by those who do research and claim otherwise, they cannot lock down on how unsafe....and that's with actual smoke.

Just because something can be smelled, doesn't deem it harmful. You cook with fire, and how often do you hear of reactions to the smell of what is cooked? Even from the after effects of the natural gas flame fumes you are sending into the kitchen. These are food products as well (pg/nic/food flavorings). and steamed.
The nat gas fumes dissapate and are mixed in the air, and generally of no harm, unless in a huge percentage, but that's off subject and the discussion needs to go back to the smell of the cooked foods.

If you blow these e-cigs directly in someones face, the reaction should be far less to that someone by a far decreased degree, due to your lungs retaining a high percentage of the vapor, so the number even in that scenario drops to less than ~4% just by common sense reasoning. It doesn't take a research lab to get that.

I'm going to be ""Very""conservative here and say 4% who smell 2nd hand vape will react to it. I think that % is a stretch.
If 4%, then , personally, I think we are over reacting.
I think that number is VERY High, and not realistic.
This doesn't mean we don't look for how our vapor might effect others. It just says it's minimal.

Your mileage might vary.

 

[dagnagan]

There has been research on secondhand vapor: Ecigarette mist harmless, inhaled or exhaled

The findings from that study do not eliminate the possibility of some individuals being affected in some way by breathing exhaled vapor, of course. I would think that small children might be more likely to have a reaction. There's a huge difference, though, between something that makes you sneeze and something that gives you cancer.

That said, if you even suspect that vapor is affecting your child, of course you will avoid exposing him. Maybe you don't always have to go outside, though. Vapor is much lighter than smoke, so if it's raining or freezing, go in the bathroom and turn on the exhaust fan or vape over the stove with the fan on.

 

[taz666]

that is when I can see all the dust that hasn't settled

 

[SharonCC]

I'll be vaping next week, when I get my equipment. I plan to vape outside as I have smoked only outside for 25years. My strategy is not to give myself the "freedom" to let vaping get out of hand, as I eventually want to get off nicotine completely, and use the vaping only when I want a "sit down, relax" time. I also have eight birds, and I'm not going to expose them to anything that I don't have to...birds have extremely sensitive respiratory systems. My daughter who was the main reason for my outside smoking, is grown and gone. I've not researched the safety of inside vaping, so this thread is interesting, to say the least....

 

[earthpig]

Best is to study what ingredients are in the fluids, and the effects from those ingredients.
Most harm (and it is minimal) is in 2 items.
1) the flavorings , (there are issues where things like cinnamon and others can be an irritant and an allergenic )
2) the burn (from either cartomizers getting cooked from overheating, OR some flavorings will gum up on a coil and smoke some)
The rest are really non issues. The nic level when expelled is disapated so fast it becomes no more than that of some common veggies consumed...if that. And that would be if it was being blown directly in your general direction.
The PG is rarely a irritant, yet 3-4% have allergies to it. That said, when exhaled in a severely dissapated state, it again becomes a far less issue. VG has less allergic effect, but the studies are not there to tell how much less. It's just a known that fewer folks have issues with it.
These effects can be read here onECF and through other sources as well.

The harm to others is overrated.

 

[sizemore2000]

I believe e-cigs are safe! So, your kid sneezed walking through your vapor. Uh, don't blow your vapor on your kid! Pepper makes my kid sneeze, so I don't throw it in his face. LOL! On a serious note though, your beliefs are shared by a lot of people that are vaping. No one on this forum will tell you it's safe, but everyone will tell you it's a safer alternative to smoking. I can post a thread that say's "I believe Santa is real", but it doesn't make it true. Just as this thread is totally based on your opinion. There are a lot of people that believe e- cigs are safe. Doesn't make it true. We only have evidence that it's safer, and everthing else is just opinion.

And that's my opinion...lol!

 

[Uncle Willie]

Folks tend to defend what their current actions are .. fact is, the jury is out on the safety of e-cigs .. any statements to the contrary are pure speculation .. as well, we are just replacing one addiction with another .. to state otherwise is called denial ..

And yes, I paint myself with that same brush ..