Keep in mind mechanical
Mods are NOT "mainstream" devices.
They are "advanced user items".
People should accept their own limitations and not try to keep up with crowd at the expense of common sense.
I have to ......rant
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Keep in mind mechanical
Mods are NOT "mainstream" devices.
They are "advanced user items".
People should accept their own limitations and not try to keep up with crowd at the expense of common sense.
So how do we keep them away from people who aren't advanced users? Do we establish advanced user credentials? Who approves the advanced user? Should there be a test before we can buy mech mods? And so on & so forth.
As far as common sense goes search "Vaping at 400 watts" on You Tube. Also how much common sense did you have even at say 21? I know I was still pretty much 10ft tall & bullitproof until I was probably in my 30's.
If you must have your mech mods put safeties on them that only an "Advanced User" can disable or remove! If you won't do that then make sure the general public can't buy them. I have much respect for all of you "Advanced Users" that were the pioneers who made vaping what it is today. Just please don't get the whole industry shut down so you can vape your way. I realize that it's not fair to you but not being able to vape at all isn't fair to anyone including you "Advanced Users"
Accidents happen.
@zapped is a seven year veteran of vaping. He ran his own vape shop at one point. He accidentally put a flat top battery (Sony VTC) into his Provari the wrong way, and shorted out its processor.
I broke the unbreakable...
My point is we are all human, and vulnerable to make human mistakes when we are distracted or not paying 100% attention to the task at hand.
Apparently so , as for the "continues attention" part , a half second is asking a lot but it is possible if one really applies oneself and gets in "that zone" .
"WE" don't.
It's not your job to try and control what other adults do.
Know your own limits, if not, learn the hard way.
None of the exploding batteries will hurt the industry a bit. (though it might wake some people up).
Didn't slow MAC laptop sales either.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-macbook-battery-exploded/
Sin taxes and Big Tobacco are the only reason anyone cares about regulating ecigs.
The only credential for knowing iyou are advanced enough to use a mech is simple.
If someone wants to use a mech mod and has to ask what do I need or use, they are not ready yet.
There is no time frame or such that makes someone advanced. It is based on knowledge and knowledge alone. Most people know what to do and what not to do but then you have the crown jewels. These are the ones that ignore common sense, physics, ohms law and could care less about any type of testers.
Then we hear about some poor schmo who got blowed up. Accidents happen and some of these are, just lapse moment or honestly got bad info, probably from a crown jewel.
You want vaping to be safe I get it, spread the word about learning, researching, and safety. Just like hunters, you have to be a good steward.
I'm sure Karma will get me one day for that "insert battery"-rant. 
Some kind of advanced user certificate won't stop people from doing stupid things - any more than getting a drivers license stops kids from ramming daddies car into inanimate or animate objects. Besides, some kid will always find a way to tie two sticks of wood together and nunchuck their own noggin.
We can strive for safety standards - for mechs and regulated mods alike. Which is a good thing. But we should spread no delusion that anything powered by batteries is 100% safe without knowing anything about batteries. Mechs - when done right - are as safe as any vaping setup. The $1.900.000 lawsuit was not about mechanical mods. Nor is this a mechanical mod. Accidents happen, as they say. Even at manufacturing. I inspect my mechs for manufacturing defects and design flaws. How many users of regulated mods can say the same?
No regulation circuit will stop anyone from pulling 200 watts out of a couple unknown (possibly 2-4 amp ICR) batteries scavenged from an old laptop. Extreme example indeed, but so is this exploding mech mod scare. Extreme cases. Point is still: Some degree of knowledge should be expected when dealing with batteries. A safety warning and "don't-do's" on Duracell packs is sufficient to keep Duracells on the market. Why not on our gear? What more can we do? What more do we want done to us?
In my defense I can say I will never strive to chuck clouds, seek out the hardest hitting mod or seek acknowledgement from my peers by increasing the size of anything expelled from any orifice. I'm perfectly fine at around 20 watts.
Some kind of advanced user certificate won't stop people from doing stupid things - any more than getting a drivers license stops kids from ramming daddies car into inanimate or animate objects. Besides, some kid will always find a way to tie two sticks of wood together and nunchuck their own noggin.
We can strive for safety standards - for mechs and regulated mods alike. Which is a good thing. But we should spread no delusion that anything powered by batteries is 100% safe without knowing anything about batteries. Mechs - when done right - are as safe as any vaping setup. The $1.900.000 lawsuit was not about mechanical mods. Nor is this a mechanical mod. Accidents happen, as they say. Even at manufacturing. I inspect my mechs for manufacturing defects and design flaws. How many users of regulated mods can say the same?
No regulation circuit will stop anyone from pulling 200 watts out of a couple unknown (possibly 2-4 amp ICR) batteries scavenged from an old laptop. Extreme example indeed, but so is this exploding mech mod scare. Extreme cases. Point is still: Some degree of knowledge should be expected when dealing with batteries. A safety warning and "don't-do's" on Duracell packs is sufficient to keep Duracells on the market. Why not on our gear? What more can we do? What more do we want done to us?
In my defense I can say I will never strive to chuck clouds, seek out the hardest hitting mod or seek acknowledgement from my peers by increasing the size of anything expelled from any orifice. I'm perfectly fine at around 20 watts.
@WattWick I agree with and understand what you're saying. The problem I see for us in the future is the same problem the gun lobby has with a much smaller voice. Guns don't kill people people do. Mods, ecigs, batteries don't kill people either when used properly. Like the incedent that happened recently in Florida. There was only talk of the mod blowing up & shooting the atty down his throat where it also exploded(???????????????) nothing about what caused it to happen. The gun industry has come up with safety features that have saved many lives. Can't we?I'm sure Karma will get me one day for that "insert battery"-rant.
Some kind of advanced user certificate won't stop people from doing stupid things - any more than getting a drivers license stops kids from ramming daddies car into inanimate or animate objects. Besides, some kid will always find a way to tie two sticks of wood together and nunchuck their own noggin.
We can strive for safety standards - for mechs and regulated mods alike. Which is a good thing. But we should spread no delusion that anything powered by batteries is 100% safe without knowing anything about batteries. Mechs - when done right - are as safe as any vaping setup. The $1.900.000 lawsuit was not about mechanical mods. Nor is this a mechanical mod. Accidents happen, as they say. Even at manufacturing. I inspect my mechs for manufacturing defects and design flaws. How many users of regulated mods can say the same?
No regulation circuit will stop anyone from pulling 200 watts out of a couple unknown (possibly 2-4 amp ICR) batteries scavenged from an old laptop. Extreme example indeed, but so is this exploding mech mod scare. Extreme cases. Point is still: Some degree of knowledge should be expected when dealing with batteries. A safety warning and "don't-do's" on Duracell packs is sufficient to keep Duracells on the market. Why not on our gear? What more can we do? What more do we want done to us?
In my defense I can say I will never strive to chuck clouds, seek out the hardest hitting mod or seek acknowledgement from my peers by increasing the size of anything expelled from any orifice. I'm perfectly fine at around 20 watts.
Would it be that horrible to put reverse polarity & low ohm protection in a mech mod? Seriuosly that's a real question because I don't know. I'm always going to use devices that have some kind of protection against my own stupid mistakes. Reverse polarity protection has saved my a** and my gear a few times.
Gotta go! I have to much to say & I'm not sure I can put the words together in a way that would be understandable.
Live long & vape on!
The sole purpose of reverse polarity protection is to protect electronics from user error.
A low resistance shut-off will stop a battery from going past a certain limit. But it will not prevent the use of batteries incapable of reaching that limit.
Keep in mind laptop and cell phone batteries have all kinds of protections. Still - however rarely - occasionally some of them do actually explode.
I would just like to say thank you to @WattWick & @Bad Ninja for putting up with my newbie crap. I'm sure vaping is at least extending (if not saving) my life over the use of analogs and I just hope it is available so others can enjoy the benefits too. We all need to do our part!
Both mechanical and regulated mods can be designed to be "safer".
1) Ultimately, the most "dangerous" event that can happen to a vaper is to have their device explode during use. An incident like this is caused by a chain of design errors, user actions, and possibly a battery fault.
- Sealed metal tubes will probably explode if a battery vents violently
- Small vents at the bottom of the tube are useless, only very large gas vents near the top have a good chance of preventing an explosion
- Building coils lower than 0.2 ohm will raise the amp draw exponentially and this increases risk - the power graph shows a significant change at 0.2 ohms and starts to climb vertically as resistance is reduced further
- Using cheap batteries with ultra low res coils is a certain route to high risk - it needs 30 amp batteries of guaranteed high quality
2) Mods need to be designed to have adequate ventilation holes in the upper 1/3 of the mod (not in the bottom), where a battery is designed to vent its gas during thermal runaway. Bottom-firing mods are a riskier design than the more natural side-firing design; bottom-fire designs risk continuous pressing of the fire button when they are set down. Recessed fire buttons are less risky, too, for the same reason, so that they do not accidentally fire when in a pocket or purse. Fire buttons could be designed to vent gas, like the AltSmoke Silver Bullet's recessed side fire button.
3) "Hot springs" could be used to break the electrical circuit from the battery to the atomizer. Vape Safe fuses could be used to break the electrical circuit, too.
These are relatively easy designs that could be incorporated to help protect vapers, but very few manufacturers are offering them because vapers are not demanding them.
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Excellent example.
See that "shelf" my laptop is resting on? You know why? Because laptops get HOT. Nobody told me to do this; I just decided that it would be a great thing to NOT set my desk on fire, so I asked my handy husband if he could fashion some way of creating airspace under the laptop. He has a bunch of those shelf units that were discarded at his work, so he cut a piece that just fit the dimensions of my laptop -- problem solved. The desk won't catch fire, and the battery in the laptop will last a great deal longer.
People who approach ANYTHING with this kind of foresight tend to have far less problems. People who just ASSUME that everything is safe... become the next exploding-battery headline. Not everyone is capable of this, and thus are doomed to be those headlines.
Andria
@WattWick ,@Bad Ninja these are the kind of things we should demand. Who is getting hurt anyway? we are! @Baditude will any of these things hurt performance of the mods?
There may be limitations on how low of a resistance you can build to if you use a Vape Safe. They are designed to break the electrical circuit if more than 4 - 7 amps current is used (depending upon the fuse model).
Large ventilation holes in the upper part of the mod, use of a "hot spring", "ventable fire buttons", using a recessed fire button, or using a "Kick" would not hurt performance. All features which add layers of safety.
Altsmoke Silver Bullet and Kick
The original Silver Bullet has a wired switch with an amp limit, but there is a fully mechanical Silver Bullet available.
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@haleysdadda
You may find this clip interesting. This is why we use the batteries we use;
And why we don't use batteries like these:
The latter is not suited for vaping in any mod, be it mechanical or regulated.
My personal pet peeve: Mods using LiPo batteries, "protected" by who-knows-what kind of electronics and who-knows-how built-in chargers. Do they even balance charge? I don't know. I can only assume 99% of the people using LiPo powered mods have never even heard of balance charging.
Not trying to convince you mechs are perfectly safe "no matter what". They're not. My agenda is telling people they should know what they're doing with any battery powered gizmo. At the very least; know which batteries to use and how not to abuse them.
You may find this clip interesting. This is why we use the batteries we use;
And why we don't use batteries like these:
The latter is not suited for vaping in any mod, be it mechanical or regulated.
My personal pet peeve: Mods using LiPo batteries, "protected" by who-knows-what kind of electronics and who-knows-how built-in chargers. Do they even balance charge? I don't know. I can only assume 99% of the people using LiPo powered mods have never even heard of balance charging.
Not trying to convince you mechs are perfectly safe "no matter what". They're not. My agenda is telling people they should know what they're doing with any battery powered gizmo. At the very least; know which batteries to use and how not to abuse them.
A thousand times this-Preach it Brother!
I must respectfully disagree. I for one do not think its sensible to rely on "safety" features legislated into existence when using any potentially hazardous system. I'll rely on my knowledge and respect for the system being used to keep me safe, not legislation. Guns still fire, in spite of safety features. So would batteries vent.
I hate to wear out old analogies, but how about knives? Cars? Baseball bats? It's through design or complacency that damage from these objects to persons and property occur from an action on the part of the person wielding the object. Wanna stop taking lives with guns? Stop pulling the trigger.
I would propose that lives saved from gunshot wounds are more a result of shooter and hunter education and familiarity with their equipment than they are from internal locks or biometric ID.
Education, familiarity, and the common sense to not use potentially dangerous equipment you don't understand are the only ways to reduce injuries from any potentially dangerous device, be it a mech mod, a shotgun, or a kitchen knife or a ball-peen hammer.
I'll address this with a story (or two, actually).
I learned how to ride a motorcycle when I was young. Dirt bikes at first, then I learned my street bike skills from my dad, piloting his 1968 BMW R60 (which was a sweet bike, and I wish I still had it!).
I moved on to other bikes, mostly cruisers after that.
Fast forward to a handful of years later, an acquaintance of mine asked me for advice on buying a motorcycle (his first). After learning that the sum total of HIS experience was "about an hour" on his sister's Honda CB 350, I suggested something modest, light, and easy to learn on.
I drove him to the bike shop where he picked a GSXR 1100. And laid it down twice on the way home to the tune of about $1500 in cosmetic damage and some road rash.
The moral of the story? You don't need to be experienced to be safe, but you have to be willing to listen to advice and learn.
Properly designed mechs with the same exact atomizer build, the same exact battery at the same exact charge state, will all hit "hard".
A turd will always be a turd (of course) but any perceived differences in hit, I think, is 90% rationalization. I think my purchase was a good purchase, therefore this device will perform as I believe it can.
@entropy1049 you & I are on the same page about common sense, training, & familiarity with ANY equipment before using it. I've been a machinist for 30 years and still have all of my appendages in working order. Started a cnc section in a company that wasn't familiar with machining only fabrication. Was told by my boss that "anybody "could run a cnc "all you have to do is push the green button". So I trained a young "anybody" especially about the safe operation of the machine. Spent weeks training him about safety. Went on vacation & when I came back he wasn't there. Come to find out "anybody" had lost two fingers by putting them where they didn't belong after being trained "specifically" not to do so. So I understand about improper use causing injury. This happened on a properly guarded machine.
All we can do is put out the safest best performing devices possible. Is a hybrid mod safe or needed at all? As far as that goes is any mod without basic safety devices necessary at all? If you die hards have to have them then build them yourselves. Don't make them available to "anybody"! The media never blames the knuckelhead on the mod button, the psycho with their finger on the trigger, or the loose nut behind the wheel it's always the mod, the gun, or the car that is to blame anymore. Our industry is to new to be able to take "ANY" bad publicity.
I also don't want the gov't legislating ANYTHING else in my life. That's why I'm asking that we as responsible vapors to not let "anybody" get a hold of working devices that don't have basic safety built in. Make kits to build whatever kind of mod you want. That would probably help keep "anybody" from getting a hold of devices they shouldn't.
Your argument is thoughtful, logical, and well presented in a civil fashion. Your point about the media's tendency to blame inanimate objects for the misdeeds of persons is noted.
I certainly agree, every effort must be made for the vaping community to self-police, and for retailers of gear to be responsible enough to not peddle advanced user gear to those without the knowledge to use it safely.
I must however continue to resist any calls for prohibition or regulation of equipment. Any further facilitation of the dumbing down of the population in favor of relying on politicians to keep these idiots safe will eventually result in their overpopulation and thus, irreversible contamination of the gene pool
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@entropy1049 Thank you for the compliments. And once again I agree with you. But I'm realistic and I don't want to take the chance of loosing something that's saving my, and many others, life! I'm not for the prohibition of anything! That could even create more problems! I just don't want to give some idiot a loaded gun because it's kool. I want them to get a gun kit so they can learn about how the gun works & how to maintain it & eventually how to load it! As it stands now I could go and buy a quadruple paralell 18650 box mod (if such a thing exists) throw some batts in it throw copper coils and shredded rags in any old atty and try to vape away. There I go being an extreme "A" again. What I would like to see is a build kit with instructions (in proper English ) so you have to know about what you're doing or have the ability to learn about what you're doing. Simplistic? Nieve? Maybe? But what we're doing isn't getting things any safer for the casual (or stupid) vaper. Oh yea! I'm only civil because I don't want to loose the priveledge of being on this forum D****T!Your argument is thoughtful, logical, and well presented in a civil fashion. Your point about the media's tendency to blame inanimate objects for the misdeeds of persons is noted.
I certainly agree, every effort must be made for the vaping community to self-police, and for retailers of gear to be responsible enough to not peddle advanced user gear to those without the knowledge to use it safely.
I must however continue to resist any calls for prohibition or regulation of equipment. Any further facilitation of the dumbing down of the population in favor of relying on politicians to keep these idiots safe will eventually result in their overpopulation and thus, irreversible contamination of the gene pool
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