Idea for atomiser cleaning (die-hard version)

[kinabaloo]

Jimbob - I would estimate the atomiser life at 1 year if it didnt clog up. Or if the cleaning was totally effective. I think we can clean the coil very well but not sure about the fibres inside the coil. Perhaps good cleaning can give us 6 months. It's better than throwing one away every day, as you said, though no worse than all the packaging for example that is also thrown out daily, not all recyclable.

In another thread Terraphon and myself have been investigating the possibility that even pure PG / VG can create deposits by being partially degraded/burned by the flash heating.

So, an easy automated atomiser cleaner would have its market. Especially when you consider that our current atomisers are probably built to a higher quality / spec than the throwaway ones.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Hi Sun,

If the coil is not shiny at first, you need to add some VG to it and use it (vape) for 5-10 minutes. That's when i found the deposits actually came off after being weakened by the vinegar.

Kinabaloo--drying now in oven on 150 degrees. Took out of Vinegar that I let boil for 30 minutes--and through into ice water--say a buch of gunk come out in thread like sizes--will report after dry and primed---Sun

 

[kinabaloo]

Jimbob - take a look at this micropump: TCS Micro Pumps

It looks ideal for cycling vinegar through the atomiser on a USB port. Keep the volume of liquid small. Heat with nichrome wire perhaps (maybe that in an old toaster can be tried for a prototype) or other ready-made heating element such as from a cheap usb coffee cup warmer. I'm liking the idea more and more

One of the ideas I'm working on (suitable for a larger vaporizer than the current 901 and pen type models) is to inject a tiny amount of fluid from behind the atomiser (battery side) on each draw. Benefits would be:
* sealed, though refillable juice container, so no or much less leaking
* the juice container could have a higher capacity
* the juice is kept away from the mouthpiece
* consistent juice flow
Just realised that a stepper motor would be ideal for this I was thinking about a motor to rotate the atomiser during cleaning - that's how i arrived at the stepper motor and it being a good choice for this other project.

Dispense with the size constraint and all kinds of things become possible. Another idea is a multi compartment juice container allowing one to switch flavours.

Another idea just came to me: for my injector project: the technology i need is to be found in inkjet printers - finely controlled and minute quantities. I'm having a productive evening

 

[Di]

I hope the threads you see are not the threads from the coil

I did some with coke and 2 died and 2 survived
and after pulling apart,
found the threads wrapped in the coil
were now at the side of the bowl, loose, coil still black / gunky
and other one threads floated out, no threads left wrapped in coil,
coil still black / gunky

2 others did survive and are vapin real well now.
cant see to the coil tho.

trying the boil in vinegar thing now,
just boiled for 4 minutes,
now soaking and cooling in the same vinegar,
will come back later with report.....

gonna get the big magnifing glass out with the big light
maybe I will see the coil down in there......
Di .....

 

[Sun Vaporer]

I hope the threads you see are not the threads from the coil

I did some with coke and 2 died and 2 survived
and after pulling apart,
found the threads wrapped in the coil
were now at the side of the bowl, loose, coil still black / gunky
and other one threads floated out, no threads left wrapped in coil,
coil still black / gunky

2 others did survive and are vapin real well now.
cant see to the coil tho.

trying the boil in vinegar thing now,
just boiled for 4 minutes,
now soaking and cooling in the same vinegar,
will come back later with report.....

gonna get the big magnifing glass out with the big light
maybe I will see the coil down in there......
Di .....

Di --Not to worry these were "dead" anyway.--gave then a 30 minute boil--Sun

 

[kinabaloo]

A quick google and i find that it's my old friend the piezo transducer that's employed in inkjet printers.

Seems I'm heading towards the original RuYan patent, from what I have heard of it !

Oh well, I'll try to invent a useful adjunct instead of a new wheel. A sat-nav of vaping ...

A sat-nav tells you where you are. It would be nice if a vaporizer could indicate battery state and (much harder) juice level. Nice but not a real must-have. Think again ...

Two facets to explore - technology based and style based.

 

[kinabaloo]

dikerry and sun - don't boil, just simmer; don't want the atomiser bouncing around or stressed by large bubbles passing through

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Kinabaloo,

I followed the procedures as follows:

1) detergent wash
2) hydrogen peroxide (heaated for 10 minutes)
3) vinegar (heated for 30 minutes)
4) Cold shock with water
5) alcohol (good wash)
6) rinse
7) Dryed
8) prime atomizer with VG
9) fired up with battery box

Was not able to get no heat with all 3.

Upon insection of the disassembled atomizer at all stages with a jewelers 10x magnification there was no change of the build up of the gunk at any stage. All contact points are still solid?????????? You can not even scrap the gunk off with a small jewelers srew driver--that gunk is not going anywhere with out a blowtorch!!!!!!!!!! --Sun

 

[kinabaloo]

Give it 5-10 mins as i said before. For some reason, the vaping with VG after the wash is the step that removes the gunk - that's what i found.

Ok, then if still no improvement, try the coke thing.

Either the coke thing is better, or these are just too far gone to be recovered by any method.

It really did work very well for me - but that atomiser i used was only 2 weeks old. And even for me the core of the coil remained lack (though it still vapes well). It was after the vaping for a while that the coil became shiny.

The washes weaken the gunk so that when restart vaping it comes off. I also saw no big change in the gunk till after vaping for a little while.

If no heat, maybe still wet deep in the core. This can happen.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Give it 5-10 mins as i said before. For some reason, the vaping with VG after the wash is the step that removes the gunk - that's what i found.

Ok, then if still no improvement, try the coke thing.

Either the coke thing is better, or these are just too far gone to be recovered by any method.

It really did work very well for me - but that atomiser i used was only 2 weeks old. And even for me the core of the coil remained lack (though it still vapes well). It was after the vaping for a while that the coil became shiny.

Kinabaloo--what I was looking for was even some resdiual build up to disapate---none was removed at all--so we need to try a different solvent-----Ideas? Sun

 

[kinabaloo]

I said from the beginning that the wash doesnt remove the deposits. On vaping after the wash the deposits came off. So I think the wash eats parts of the deposits making tiny holes. The heat of the vaporiser then heats the fluid in those tiny holes and THAT blasts off the deposits.

Did you use pure vinegar?

 

[kinabaloo]

Sun - There isn't i think another way, just stronger versions of what i proposed. But as this link shows, we'd be getting into dangerous terrotory: Re: Solvent for Carbon

and

http://www.usenet.com/newsgroups/sci.chem.organic.synthesis/msg00085.html

 

[Sun Vaporer]

I said from the beginning that the wash doesnt remove the deposits. On vaping after the wash the deposits came off. So I think the wash eats parts of the deposits making tiny holes. The heat of the vaporiser then heats the fluid in those tiny holes and THAT blasts off the deposits.

Did you use pure vinegar?

I used pure--absent the heat I agree that it will not move it--but I can not get heat as the coil will not heat. There has to be something that will remove this gunk. I can not even manually scape it off the coil. ---Give me another sovent to try that is safe and I will give it a go.---I have 10 more dead ones---Sun

 

[kinabaloo]

Have isopropyl alcohol ? It's safe and used to remove deposits from tape heads (tapes as in before dvds). Also called isopropanol.

Acetone (nail polish remover)

Sodium hydroxide -Oven cleaner; apply as a paste as would to an oven. This one most likely to do something. It's strong so careful

 

[kinabaloo]

Nothing dissolves carbon. At an early stage the deposits will be a mix or carbon and organic breakdown products not yet degraded all the way to carbon. At that stage a solvent can work by dissolving enough of the deposits such that the rest falls off.

The only thing you can do with carbon is react it with oxygen, which the hydrogen peroxide can do (but maybe only at a higher strength) which would be a bit dangerous. Liquid oxygen (very cold and very dangerous to work with).

Maybe your idea Sun is not too outrageous as you thought - blowtorch Burn it off. It will melt the solder too though.

If have disassembled the atomiser to blowtorch it, why not instead just wind a new one !

ps : molten iron will disolve carbon.

 

[dee5]

I'm wondering if the cleaner they sell for Oreck air cleaners would dissolve this stuff? It eats tar deposits off the blades of the air cleaner like magic and if you attached one of those extensions from a compressed air can I bet you could get it inside the atomizer....

 

[Sun Vaporer]

I'm wondering if the cleaner they sell for Oreck air cleaners would dissolve this stuff? It eats tar deposits off the blades of the air cleaner like magic and if you attached one of those extensions from a compressed air can I bet you could get it inside the atomizer....

Dee--Could you elaborate more --what is this stuff and where is it sold--Sun

 

[kinabaloo]

Sun, if you have an atomiser that does heat up that you could test, i suggest this:

it's kindof the blowtorch approach in a way - and like the self-clean cycle too - simply apply say 6v and hold it for 20 seconds. But again, this may work only if done before the deposits get too great. Once too great, the coil will be restricted from expanding and might break.

You could also try an ultrasonic bath.

If the 20second heat and ultrasonic bath also fail, we have found that atomisers not cleaned for a long time cannot be cleaned with any method or chemical suited to home use.

Also regarding mixed results with cleaning: the exact nature of the deposits will vary a bit according to the juice previously used, PG or VG, any sugars etc.

What's wrong with the new disposable atomisers (atomiser and cart combined)? Not so good, or just a waste? Can't drip with them?

We are left with is the following options:

* as now but with an emphasis on 'clean early'
* throwaway atomisers
* new atomiser technology (but for which deposits would still be a problem if heating involved)
* atomisers with easily replaceable coils (quite a tricky option in fact unless the whole thing not just the coil was replaced - it could slide out of the tube and the solded connectors would instead be contacts; there's really not much to be gained by this though unless it was a self-help method following a hardware ban)

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Sun, if you have an atomiser that does heat up that you could test, i suggest this:

it's kindof the blowtorch approach in a way - and like the self-clean cycle too - simply apply say 6v and hold it for 20 seconds

Kinabaloo--I have 210 of them--all new plus the one I am using now--which one do you want me to use--LOL--seriously--the other 10 just die out of the clear blue. --so you want me to use the one i am using now because I will but it is working great. They just stop out of the blue--and it is not a wiring issue or a contact issue????????--Sun

 

[kinabaloo]

For a heat up 6v test we need an underperforming one that heats up.