if you are wondering why Greece is always going down (Achilles)
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I think Ithaka is the best atomizer.... and you're on a thread that is filled with people who feel the same way.
Well here is the problem honestly. Speaking about a copy here in GG will leave you with the impression that Leo copied. Take this conversation over to Leo and he would tell you imeo copied. Who did it first? I honestly don't care. It won't change the fact that it's done regardless of what order it went. What I can say is Leo did have something similar back about 2 years ago. Now it would seem to me that natural evolution of a product would take it to where Sophia is today. But I don't think anyone but the modders really know. I don't mean any disrespect, but all we can do is speculate and research and draw our own conclusion.
An example would be where the ecig was invented. I've thought it was china. But a little more research by jojo showed that actually it was born in the US. Thought of by one, proto created by another, publicly shown in one year, copied by china the year after.
Sometimes a copy is a blatant copy. Other times it's another's interpretation. As in a previous comment about the Ford. Did all other car makers copy Ford? Or did other makers offer more options. Just because it has 4 wheels doesn't mean it's a copy.
I love my GG products. I do. But I also love other products as well. Point is if it keeps you from inhaling the toxic and smelling like toxic, then who is anyone to judge. Vape a GG. Vape a copy, vape a chi, vape a carto. I'm the end it's all about health and helping each other stay healthy. The rest of the mod slinging is pure nonsense.
An example would be where the ecig was invented. I've thought it was china. But a little more research by jojo showed that actually it was born in the US. Thought of by one, proto created by another, publicly shown in one year, copied by china the year after.
Sometimes a copy is a blatant copy. Other times it's another's interpretation. As in a previous comment about the Ford. Did all other car makers copy Ford? Or did other makers offer more options. Just because it has 4 wheels doesn't mean it's a copy.
I love my GG products. I do. But I also love other products as well. Point is if it keeps you from inhaling the toxic and smelling like toxic, then who is anyone to judge. Vape a GG. Vape a copy, vape a chi, vape a carto. I'm the end it's all about health and helping each other stay healthy. The rest of the mod slinging is pure nonsense.
I agree with every point you bring up. In this specific case, there is a clear accusation of copying outright from a prototype - not from a video, not from a released product, to the point where features added to newer prototypes were not in the alleged copy.
I give most of my business to Greek mod and atty makers, and I've gotten to know at least one of them personally, and can tell you there is a lot of integrity and honor there, to the point of being soul-wrenching. They may not all express it here on ECF, but I can assure you, it is there.
I may never know which is the egg and which is the chicken in this case, but I refuse to judge anyone based on the evidence currently available.
Yankee, the only that I want to tell you is that Achilles is a thin Ody. Ody's design allow us to make any size of atomizer. Ody was made before Leo and before everything else with a mouthpiece that open and close to control liquid and also it was the first atomizer with the coil under the liquid.
I dont care what Leo says, but it would be nice of him to admit that he inspired from Ody. The rest are useless.
But what am I talking about? Who ever admit that he inspired from GG? Who ever admit that telescope on his mod was a GG idea, or the plastic with a moving pin inside it to adjust path, or the locking mechanism on all buttons, or the extensions on the body, or the AD ring, or the mechanical design itself, or the engraving, or the use of brass, or the tanks with atomizer inside, or a removable button in 4 places, or 4 in 1 connector, or wall plug, or liquid collector or or or......
Anyway, I just like to give credits to where they belong and thats it.
I dont care what Leo says, but it would be nice of him to admit that he inspired from Ody. The rest are useless.
But what am I talking about? Who ever admit that he inspired from GG? Who ever admit that telescope on his mod was a GG idea, or the plastic with a moving pin inside it to adjust path, or the locking mechanism on all buttons, or the extensions on the body, or the AD ring, or the mechanical design itself, or the engraving, or the use of brass, or the tanks with atomizer inside, or a removable button in 4 places, or 4 in 1 connector, or wall plug, or liquid collector or or or......
Anyway, I just like to give credits to where they belong and thats it.
I cant let anyone say whatever he likes here Yaya. People like this come here to leave impressions and then they leave again. They dont have a serious purpose
no reason to be confused kata. We all know who is the chicken and who is the egg. Maybe we will not know that after 200 years but we do know now
Imeo. I think this world would be a better place if everyone gave credit where credit is due. That's for sure. 
No Imeo, you are wrong.
My issue is that you sold me ready wires at a premium price and passed them off as greek made ready wires when in fact you changed the quality of the ready wires without adjusting the price. That doesn't sit well with me.
My other issue is with your statement that the GG is not for those that don't have money. THAT doesn't coincide with your mission statement that "I will satisfy every vaper out there"...that is your mission statement, not mine.
My disappointment has been snowballing since the production of the Ithaka. (customers didn't want the plastic windows but you swore that they were impervious to ANY juice and didn't listen to the more experience customers, then we had to spend more money to replace the plastic with steel/customers claimed that the ithaka was leaking and you swore that it isn't leaking and there is no way that it leaks and yet it does/Now we find that the wrong size o-rings were used to join the 3 parts to the tank. The wrong size oring connecting the BF came on the ithakas and you disregarded it as "you don't need it anyway". We if it isn't needed, why did you put something not needed there and it doesn't fit so it when you screw it down it doesn't fit right giving more problems than it is worth. That isn't A#1 quality. I have 8 Ithakas and they all leak in different areas of the various parts of the tank/when ithaka was 1st being released, you were releasing it with the universal drip mouthpiece then that changed and I have 6 ithakas that have mouthpieces that are original to the gg design that are useless to me and had to spend yet more money on the universal/The metal of the ithaka is much thinner than the other GG products which makes me feel it is cheaply made. It is heavy in total because of all the threading from having so many parts to it. I have asked the grade of the SS in the past and have not received an answer on that.
The discovery that the ready wires are china sourced and were passed off as the original greek made wires was the icing on the cake. Paying $1 (US) per ready wire and having your customer addressing that these are not as good wires as the original ones only to have you say, there is really no difference when you outsourced to china and didn't acknowledge that makes me wonder what else is outsourced and or what other shortcuts are being taken.
Certain customers bring up valid concerns and criticism and they are disregarded because you know best but then you are proven wrong but it costs us.
Im sorry Imeo, maybe other customers don't have the GG experience that makes a difference in your eye but I have many many gg products and numerous of the same batch and I have the right to have an opinion on what is happening.
My issue is that you sold me ready wires at a premium price and passed them off as greek made ready wires when in fact you changed the quality of the ready wires without adjusting the price. That doesn't sit well with me.
My other issue is with your statement that the GG is not for those that don't have money. THAT doesn't coincide with your mission statement that "I will satisfy every vaper out there"...that is your mission statement, not mine.
My disappointment has been snowballing since the production of the Ithaka. (customers didn't want the plastic windows but you swore that they were impervious to ANY juice and didn't listen to the more experience customers, then we had to spend more money to replace the plastic with steel/customers claimed that the ithaka was leaking and you swore that it isn't leaking and there is no way that it leaks and yet it does/Now we find that the wrong size o-rings were used to join the 3 parts to the tank. The wrong size oring connecting the BF came on the ithakas and you disregarded it as "you don't need it anyway". We if it isn't needed, why did you put something not needed there and it doesn't fit so it when you screw it down it doesn't fit right giving more problems than it is worth. That isn't A#1 quality. I have 8 Ithakas and they all leak in different areas of the various parts of the tank/when ithaka was 1st being released, you were releasing it with the universal drip mouthpiece then that changed and I have 6 ithakas that have mouthpieces that are original to the gg design that are useless to me and had to spend yet more money on the universal/The metal of the ithaka is much thinner than the other GG products which makes me feel it is cheaply made. It is heavy in total because of all the threading from having so many parts to it. I have asked the grade of the SS in the past and have not received an answer on that.
The discovery that the ready wires are china sourced and were passed off as the original greek made wires was the icing on the cake. Paying $1 (US) per ready wire and having your customer addressing that these are not as good wires as the original ones only to have you say, there is really no difference when you outsourced to china and didn't acknowledge that makes me wonder what else is outsourced and or what other shortcuts are being taken.
Certain customers bring up valid concerns and criticism and they are disregarded because you know best but then you are proven wrong but it costs us.
Im sorry Imeo, maybe other customers don't have the GG experience that makes a difference in your eye but I have many many gg products and numerous of the same batch and I have the right to have an opinion on what is happening.
I see that your issues are about ready wires and about vapers that dont have enough money Jojo. The first issue can be easily solved by making wires in Greece as usual so you can have the opportunity to buy China or Greek wires if you like. The second issue, is not an issue and it never was because GG was never made for people that cant affort it. If I make a cheap GG then you will tell me again that I dont care for my customers because I make bad constructions. I really cant see why you are dissapointed here
Well since you just cant leave it alone and you need to always have the last word, lets take this one step at a time.
As you said there is room for improvement on the Ithaka when you think of something new to add.
Is it not conceivable to you that someone else might find something new to add before you do?
As you said there is room for improvement on the Ithaka when you think of something new to add.
Is it not conceivable to you that someone else might find something new to add before you do?
Steelseth I don't see the reason you posting Greek thread posts here where people cannot understand what is written.
Unfortunately yes Yankee. But I will try always to not stop saying exactly what is happening. People almost forgot Trog. Thats a pity
Imeo. I think this world would be a better place if everyone gave credit where credit is due. That's for sure.
My dear jojo, when I did what you said?
Asd for Ithaka windows. I never lied to you. I changed the material from plexiglass to polopropylene because many people were saying that it was way better and as you see I heard them. The fact that it was not a good choice doesnt mean that I didnt try very hard to find this silly material and pay for it 3 times more and import it from UK
But you always knew what I mean by this statement. I meant that I will make the best of the best as I really do. This isnt compatible with inexpensive devices. I think that you agree here
Quality arent the o-rings we put there my dear jojo. I always leave room for bigger o-rings in case we have a problem and you know that because I have mention it a lot of times on forums
Maybe you dont know that I pay for all the wasted metal jojo, so making thinner walls doesnt come cheaper to me. But it comes more expensive because the machine has to make better adjustments and because the man that shines GG has to be very careful when he shines thin walls. Smaller or thinner is always more expensive. Also I tried hard to make Ithaka short but with more capacity just to give you the best atomizer ever made but you see it the wrong way
Maybe I missed your question but I have said too many times that I use SS 303
Who told you that ready wires were made in China before I deside to make them there? Why do you think that I fooled you? Where did you read that?
You know how much I respect you as I respect Yankee and you know that I always defend you if you remember what I mean. But as I see, you have wrong impressions with out a valid reason!!
I am sure that this may happen steel but it isnt happening until today.
I thought that you said that you will leave if I am not mistaken. Also you where the one that agreed to leave if I ask you to do that. And I did that. But you are still here. Ok, maybe I have to do that twice. Can you please leave GG forum steel?
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