Ill Advised E-liquid Packaging?
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Two threads on the topic right now on the front page of ECF. I've seen at least four in the CASAA Facebook group over the last couple months. Usually not a vendor that I'm familiar with at all. If I were more cynical I'd say someone has an agenda searching out these images and posting them everywhere.
Still trying to figure out how this is a Witch Hunt.
I don't think the Packaging that the OP post is Responsible. And I see it as Damaging to e-Cigarette Community as a Whole.
Maybe I'm Not as Cynical as Some, and I'm Pretty Cynical - You know that, but I don't see a Big Agenda going on.
If Anything, I think it is Health for anyone on the Outside Looking in to see that Many/Most Vapers have Concerns over how Packaging could be Perceived as being Targeted at Minors.
This OP isn't accusing the vendor of marketing to children. Some of the posters in this thread have. Some of the other posts on the topic have accused the same thing.
Remember the thread a while back when we discussed this, the image in the OP of that one was one that had not been used in months or more, and even the vendor couldn't figure out where the poster had gotten the image from.
I'm not sure how Anyone can Accuse someone as Marketing to Children.
But I can Definitely see how a Company can Market something that would be Perceived as being Marketed to Children by the Average Person.
And that is Irresponsible. And Doesn't Help the e-Cigarette Community.
What exactly do you mean? They post a pic and say look at this, they're targeting children. I may be confusing some posters from this thread with the other thread, but I know I've seen it today.
Then Call Them Out on it. I'm not Accusing Anyone of Targeting Children.
I'm the One saying that the Average Person is going to Perceive the Picture in the 1st Post of this Thread as Targeting Both Minors as well as Adult. And that those who are Pushing State Regulations and Tax Legislation will use things like this Against Us.
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I'm packing it in. Got that Reality TV Shouting Match, I mean Republican Debate, Tivo-ed.
I think it's odd that when this subject is brought up vapers become extremely defensive and point to other industries that employ the same strategy as if that somehow rationalizes it. I personally don't care what companies do with their product or how the market it and if putting silly cartoons makes business sense then go for it. Just don't whine when your product is used against us causing regulations and or restrictions. That all I'm saying.
Just started to Watch it.
Marco (Polo) looks like he has had a Few Drinks. And is Laying into Trump. LOL.
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And next time you say Marco I'll say Polo!
I'm not searching out problems - this one landed in my lap and if anyone believes this type of presentation won't be a problem is fooling themselves
and what the .... has tv got to do with any of this? That's another problematic issue in this country - failure to stay on point. forest for the trees - I'm not addressing what kids will do - I am addressing politicos with agendas and this in my opinion feeds into their agendas. I'm done - sorry I posted this and I now remember why I stopped posting here. Enjoy your tobacco and menthol only flavors in the future if you sit idly by.
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and to the whistledick who brought trump into this thread - please don't move so I can get a good lead on you - no bobbing or weaving please - pinhead
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wow, settle down there bub. I didn't accuse you of searching this out. You stated in your OP that this was emailed to you, and that you emailed them back voicing your opinion.
The only thing about all of this from you that I question, is why you felt the need to post it here? Did you also happen to post it on other social media?
I don't think you believe this company is actually targeting minors, and I understand that you feel this type of merchandising will be used against vaping as targeting minors. I actually agree with you there. I just wanted to point out that there's another option instead of just giving in to the ridiculous idea that they ARE targeting minors, the truth, that they're targeting the people who legally buy their products.
for the last time my point is the perception by those who will us ill. If i worded it incorrectly - oops. But you are welcome for the opportunity to pontificate. Again sorry - I will fade away back to a mere anniversary post - just as proof this all works.
There's only so far that I can read a thread like this before I'm compelled to chime in. (This time, I made it all the way to the end of p.4.)
The primary argument against such packaging that I think is actually warranted is that it could sway general non-vaping public opinion that the vaping industry (in part) is taking things too far in a direction that is hard to go along with (though perhaps better put as hard to relate to).
Now for the other side of the argument (which I favor):
- the general non-vaping public is not likely to care a lot about vaping (politics), nor likely to call for any harsher regulations than what has already been proposed
- ANTZ operatives and politicians that are (clearly) ANTZ leaning are likely to use this type of packaging as a call for harsher regulations
- But, and this is a very significant but, they will also use everything and anything. If you doubt this, then you are either not paying very close attention, are new to vaping politics, or are playing a game of denial that I'm eager to expose in a debate such as this.
- what does 'marketing to children' even mean? I ask that rhetorically because I'd like for some to spell that out, given that some (or a majority) on our side have already made the very huge concession of disallowing all forms of sales to minors. How can something that is illegal for minors to purchase also have the property of being marketed to children? Please explain that. If I were talking with a ANTZ leaning politician, I'd ask for that to be explained, either privately or publicly.
- Was anyone in this thread ever a child? Also asked rhetorically, as I'm 100% certain of the answer to that inquiry. But would also wonder for those of us who did engage in things that were legal for adults but not for us (then) minors, were you and your peers always choosing the products that had cartoon like, colorful, sweet, fun-filled aspects? Cause from what I distinctly recall it was far more likely that my peers chose stuff that was more adult like. The more adult like the cooler. The more kiddie like the (far) less cooler. I feel acknowledging this reality among all humans that were at one time kids is a rather significant point in this ongoing debate we wish to wage.
- My understanding of all such products is to capture youth of users. The perception can always be framed superficially as if that means only people who are by age factor alone identified as youth. I honestly do not see that as what the people who market in this way are going for. They are going for capturing the youth in all people who wish to purchase/obtain/consume such products. At this level of awareness, I see overwhelming majority of products that advertise in this way. I see lots and lots of messages we tell ourselves as a society that are about maintaining or recapturing our youthful nature. I don't think this will ever change. I very much hope it doesn't.
- After just coming from cloning thread, this whole topic strikes me in similar vein to that. You (as a concerned vaper who can't or perhaps don't wish to refute any of the other points I've raised) aren't going to change this aspect of the industry. Regulations will impact it, but won't stop it. And the fact that non-deceptive counterfeiting is alive and well in the industry ought to tell you we have bigger fish to fry than pretty pictures on the label (the label for God's sake) of our products.
- Finally, though not of least importance, I'm always up for hearing what the big deal is about kids vaping. Kids are going to vape regardless of the label types. Even ANTZ know this. Thus, they just become a pawn in the vaping war that is clearly being waged. It's not that kids are actually being targeted, nor that this is the actual intent of why market in this way. It's that it serves the anti agenda to use kids as pawns and act as if it is a really big deal if kids take up vaping. And yet, I still haven't heard that solid argument against why kids shouldn't be vaping. Maybe one day I will.
The primary argument against such packaging that I think is actually warranted is that it could sway general non-vaping public opinion that the vaping industry (in part) is taking things too far in a direction that is hard to go along with (though perhaps better put as hard to relate to).
Now for the other side of the argument (which I favor):
- the general non-vaping public is not likely to care a lot about vaping (politics), nor likely to call for any harsher regulations than what has already been proposed
- ANTZ operatives and politicians that are (clearly) ANTZ leaning are likely to use this type of packaging as a call for harsher regulations
- But, and this is a very significant but, they will also use everything and anything. If you doubt this, then you are either not paying very close attention, are new to vaping politics, or are playing a game of denial that I'm eager to expose in a debate such as this.
- what does 'marketing to children' even mean? I ask that rhetorically because I'd like for some to spell that out, given that some (or a majority) on our side have already made the very huge concession of disallowing all forms of sales to minors. How can something that is illegal for minors to purchase also have the property of being marketed to children? Please explain that. If I were talking with a ANTZ leaning politician, I'd ask for that to be explained, either privately or publicly.
- Was anyone in this thread ever a child? Also asked rhetorically, as I'm 100% certain of the answer to that inquiry. But would also wonder for those of us who did engage in things that were legal for adults but not for us (then) minors, were you and your peers always choosing the products that had cartoon like, colorful, sweet, fun-filled aspects? Cause from what I distinctly recall it was far more likely that my peers chose stuff that was more adult like. The more adult like the cooler. The more kiddie like the (far) less cooler. I feel acknowledging this reality among all humans that were at one time kids is a rather significant point in this ongoing debate we wish to wage.
- My understanding of all such products is to capture youth of users. The perception can always be framed superficially as if that means only people who are by age factor alone identified as youth. I honestly do not see that as what the people who market in this way are going for. They are going for capturing the youth in all people who wish to purchase/obtain/consume such products. At this level of awareness, I see overwhelming majority of products that advertise in this way. I see lots and lots of messages we tell ourselves as a society that are about maintaining or recapturing our youthful nature. I don't think this will ever change. I very much hope it doesn't.
- After just coming from cloning thread, this whole topic strikes me in similar vein to that. You (as a concerned vaper who can't or perhaps don't wish to refute any of the other points I've raised) aren't going to change this aspect of the industry. Regulations will impact it, but won't stop it. And the fact that non-deceptive counterfeiting is alive and well in the industry ought to tell you we have bigger fish to fry than pretty pictures on the label (the label for God's sake) of our products.
- Finally, though not of least importance, I'm always up for hearing what the big deal is about kids vaping. Kids are going to vape regardless of the label types. Even ANTZ know this. Thus, they just become a pawn in the vaping war that is clearly being waged. It's not that kids are actually being targeted, nor that this is the actual intent of why market in this way. It's that it serves the anti agenda to use kids as pawns and act as if it is a really big deal if kids take up vaping. And yet, I still haven't heard that solid argument against why kids shouldn't be vaping. Maybe one day I will.
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