I'm amazed...join CASAA

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I have never felt so passionate about a cause in my life, other than Race for the Cure. I have a story to tell and CASAA is my voice. I have my health to defend and CASAA is looking out for it, trying to protect my access to the product that literally is saving me from furthering the damage done from 20 plus years of smoking because no more damage from smoking will be done. I appreciate the hard work this association does ON OUR BEHALF. They are not asking for anything other than the strength gained by knowing we are on their side and knowing we support them and knowing we believe in them.
 
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Mowgli

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Today's official number of registered members: 7,412


CASAA benefits from simply having a large membership because it tells legislators, media, etc. that vocal vapers and THR supporters number in the thousands and aren't just a fringe group. So, while we need active members and donations, even just joining CASAA and doing nothing else is a "vote" for our cause and helps the fight. It shows that CASAA has a large backing and that impresses people. Just think if you heard of a group fighting for a cause how you would feel about that cause if the group had just 500 members or 100,000 members. Wouldn't a large membership in an advocacy group make you stop and think, "Hmmm...maybe there is something to what they are saying?"

"Just joining" also gets you on the CASAA email list so you are at least kept aware of what is going on around the country and in your area regarding legislation. Maybe you aren't in a position to do anything now, but who knows - you could be in the future.

well said for the bump
 

The Dingo

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Knowing Jman8 my first guess would be that he objects to pushing for bans against selling to minors.
He is also against anything that further demonizes smoking, but I think CASAA goes out of their way to avoid further demonization of smokers.

OK. Let's explore these then.
Smoking and vaping are intrinsically linked in the public eye...like it or not. I believe the vast majority of vapers are former smokers or are current smokers looking for an ALTERNATIVE to smoking. What does the acronym "CASAA" stand for? Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free ALTERNATIVES Association. It makes sense to me that they would promote *alternatives* to smoking. It's right there...in the name...and the word "alternative" is mentioned twice in their mission statement! With promoting these alternatives comes the need to differentiate vaping from smoking, which is not an easy task. I can see how some dual users might see this differentiation as "demonizing" smoking, but attempting differentiation <> demonization, IMO. I'm sure some ECF members look down their nose at smokers. Many of us have made a choice to quit smoking. I think many of us know that vaping <> smoking, but the public does not.

Banning use by minors is a double-edged sword. I can see that, on the one hand, banning use by minors does send a bit of a mixed message ("Vaping is okay for me or any 18 year old, but not a 17 year old"). On the other hand, imagine what would happen if CASAA condoned the use of ecigs by minors. Any legislator would run fast and far from an organization who appeared to approve of minors doing anything that essentially "looks like smoking" to the majority of his/her constituents. Besides, we don't *know* the long term effects of vaping on children...or adults, for that matter, whether 0mg or not. I believe it is better to err on the side of caution, and I think that shows that CASAA is being reasonable and responsible in its stance on use by minors. I *believe* vaping is safer based on the evidence, and that's why I continue to choose to do it. Notice I said "safER" not "safe." I think CASAA is very careful in making that distinction, as well.

Why should CASAA be opposed to banning use by minors, anyway? The ACS already opposes that ban! :)
 
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Jman8

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OK. Let's explore these then.
Smoking and vaping are intrinsically linked in the public eye...like it or not. I believe the vast majority of vapers are former smokers or are current smokers looking for an ALTERNATIVE to smoking. What does the acronym "CASAA" stand for? Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free ALTERNATIVES Association. It makes sense to me that they would promote *alternatives* to smoking. It's right there...in the name...and the word "alternative" is mentioned twice in their mission statement! With promoting these alternatives comes the need to differentiate vaping from smoking, which is not an easy task. I can see how some dual users might see this differentiation as "demonizing" smoking, but attempting differentiation <> demonization, IMO. I'm sure some ECF members look down their nose at smokers. Many of us have made a choice to quit smoking. I think many of us know that vaping <> smoking, but the public does not.


CASAA, God bless them, does not demonize smoking. An "alternative to smoking" is fine in my book. That we live in a world where many now vapers are ex-smokers is great in my book. That 'we' have an industry/community that often makes comparisons between the two and, at the very least, hints toward cessation through eCigs WHILE dealing with adversaries who question that and ARE anti-smoking, I think makes for a confusing stance and messages. Compare it to smoking when it works in our favor (for attracting new vapers) and draw every possible line of distinction when dealing with politicians/ANTZ. It is an alternative. Doesn't need to be sold (even figuratively) as a full substitute / cessation product, especially within political discourse. Trust me, newbies will find that out on their own. I believe Soterra ruling spoke clearly on this. From the 32 page opinion (Leon):

Because plaintiffs sell their electronic cigarette products for customary recreational use, those products Gust like traditional cigarettes) are properly excluded from the meaning of drug or device under the FDCA.

Bold emphasis mine.

Additional quote from same opinion piece:

Indeed, the overarching theme of the marketing campaign, from the pictures to the promotional claims, is that smoking electronic cigarettes is fun and exciting.

Another quote

The clear import of Smoking Everywhere's advertising is that it wants consumers to use its electronic cigarettes for the same recreational purposes and with the same frequency as traditional cigarettes.

Again, bold emphasis mine.

Could perhaps provide more quotes from the opinion to support my position, but feel this is enough. I see vaping as a recreation choice to increase, as may be desired, the frequency of nicotine into my system. Again, that we live in a world where that will likely, at times, be compared to traditional cigs, is probably a given, considering all the players/consumers involved. Some of CASAA's messages appear to dance on a line that is further away from the fun, recreational use of eCigs (vaping) and closer to message of smoking cessation.

And just to add, though perhaps not proper to attribute this to CASAA, I can't count the amount of times I've read on an eCig forum or petition comments that if eCigs are banned (which will never occur, IMO) that the eCig user will then be 'forced to go back to smoking.' That would be closer to 'demonize smoking' when in actuality it gives off the impression of demonizing the user(s) of nicotine.

Banning use by minors is a double-edged sword. I can see that, on the one hand, banning use by minors does send a bit of a mixed message ("Vaping is okay for me or any 18 year old, but not a 17 year old"). On the other hand, imagine what would happen if CASAA condoned the use of ecigs by minors. Any legislator would run fast and far from an organization who appeared to approve of minors doing anything that essentially "looks like smoking" to the majority of his/her constituents. Besides, we don't *know* the long term effects of vaping on children...or adults, for that matter, whether 0mg or not. I believe it is better to err on the side of caution, and I think that shows that CASAA is being reasonable and responsible in its stance on use by minors. I *believe* vaping is safer based on the evidence, and that's why I continue to choose to do it. Notice I said "safER" not "safe." I think CASAA is very careful in making that distinction, as well.

With where things stand right now, I think CASAA is wise to not encourage minors to vape. I do question the wisdom to not encourage 0 mg vaping, but as only vapers are the people in the room to understand 0 mg, then given the political fight, I think it would be ill considered, at this time, for CASAA or anyone that has a stake in eCig industry to encourage minors to vape 0 mg. But to then go ahead and actively discourage it, is carrying the torch for ANTZ. I see it as a political compromise, that likely does gain us favor with the ANTZ types, or at least reasonable ANTZ (oxymoron?).

But it sends a mixed message that once the current debate (with FDA) is more settled, wouldn't be too challenging to pick away at over time. Dangerous product in the hands of minors, but relatively harmless in the hands of adults. I'll be dumbfounded if CASAA or other vapers down the road are still trying to argue that vaping 0 mg by a minor is dangerous, for them. And I'll continue to question the strategy that insists minors must never be allowed to vape nicotine. But as that statement alone and a discussion around it is enough to close a thread on ECF, I'll just leave it at that for now.
 
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