WOW...
This guy needs to see a doctor himself; a proctologist, 'cause it's coming out the wrong end...
This guy needs to see a doctor himself; a proctologist, 'cause it's coming out the wrong end...
I'm not naming names
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I dismissed their claims weeks ago wading through the muck of the ASH website, finding no valid scientific data to back up their outlandish claims, and doing some research on Banzhaf himself.
Is it just me, or do I think this Banzhaf is just off his rocker now, so power driven that he's willing to go to such extremes?
Hey BigJim I think you are right about "bansman" he has become deluded by his own success. Unfortunately as a teacher he can infect the new young minds that will come after him. They do most of the work for him which he justly credits them kind of like a positive reinforcement project. Bansman can call on Stanton Glantz to come up with the necessary research and the "science" to back up his ridiculous claims. Stanton, is behind most of the research via his myriad of grants at UCSF. Both work in tandem to create societal problems in the guise of doing good things for the public.
But you're right, Ladyraj, about what a few lawsuits could do. How many sellers have deep pockets to defend themselves in court? Our ASH friend has VERY deep pockets to pull money from. Almost limitless amounts, I'd guess.
And the financial stakes are very high in this game. Those without the means will see the end if he follows through with more suits.
And the financial stakes are very high in this game. Those without the means will see the end if he follows through with more suits.
I have a mother in law that died from smoking. My father is a three pack a day smoker. Three of my friends at work have smoking related illnesses. I will smoke again if I have to quit vaping, and will die an early death, as is scientific FACT. If they test these to no end and they are proven to be as safe as we all think they are, then I will step up in my area as a representative. Right now I hope it is just cautious worry on our parts. I have a little girl who never met her grandmother, and may never remember her grandfather. My mother has inhaled second hand smoke for 30 years as well. I get upset when I see these "experts" make claims that are not fact. I for one will quit vaping if they are found to be as harmful as or more harmful than cigarettes. Like I said if they are as harmless as I think they are and are banned, I will be writing my congressman to see why he wants to kill my family and friends. I left a comment on the site that hosts that bogus "information". Lets see if they censor me or not.
If this guy was working on our side he would be lauded as a hero no matter what tactics he used. I find politics distasteful in every way, and I think it is because the cruel reality is that the ends almost always justify the means to policos. We can't be prudish and instead need a similar political animal working for our side.
I'm not a fan of liars no matter whose side they are on.
Besides, the truth is on our side.
"The complaint charges that Smoking Everywhere has engaged in the "deceptive sale and promotion of electronic cigarettes" which "causes immediate harm to public health, safety, and welfare." It says defendants made claims which were deceptive because "Defendants did not possess such evidence because such evidence does not exist." These claims included that e-cigarettes "are safer than traditional cigarettes."
The above is a quote from the link the OP posted. Mr. B says what is in red, and then later says what is in purple. OMFG. Why doesn't he need real PROOF to make statements, yet the rest of the world does???
This guy is really ticking me off and if we end up having to go back to analogs because of him I think a class action suit against him should be seriously considered.
The above is a quote from the link the OP posted. Mr. B says what is in red, and then later says what is in purple. OMFG. Why doesn't he need real PROOF to make statements, yet the rest of the world does???
This guy is really ticking me off and if we end up having to go back to analogs because of him I think a class action suit against him should be seriously considered.
Filing a class action lawsuit against old ASHhole wouldn't be as difficult as some might think. If 300 people put in 100 each, that's $30k starting out and I know a lot of people here have at least $100 on them to contribute and I know others have much more spare change than that. I'm one of them; if anyone's up to the challenge of helping organize such a thing, I'll back it 100%. It's finding the attorney with the guts to stand up to these people and who won't sell us out behind closed doors and then, we need someone like Dr. Siegel to stand behind us also if we want to get anywhere.
Putting something like that together would not be difficult, it would just take funding and a leader to start the process of gathering people, finding the right attorney, and the right scientific and/or medical representative to back us.
I think that's been pretty well established even before this article.
I think that was pretty well established even before this article. WTF is 3rd hand smoke? BS, thats what
I was curious about that, too. I think second-hand is the smoke exhaled by the smoker or from the lit cigarette and third-hand is the smoke residue left on furniture, walls, clothing, etc.
Correct. Dr. David Baron states that we need to recognize that there is risk associated with third-hand smoke. Not sure how much risk though.
YouTube - Electronic Cigarette - Dr. David Baron, M.D. - PART 2/2
I can't find any info on this alleged lawsuit. All I can find is the press release.
Does anyone have more info?
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Does anyone have more info?
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Smoking Everywhere did not settle with Oregon's threatened lawsuit:
Oregon Sues Electronic Cigarette Maker
Charges firm is targeting kids
Oregon Sues Electronic Cigarette Maker
Excerpts:
"Thus far, Oregon remains the only state that has taken legal action against e-cigarette importers and retailers. In addition to the recent settlement with retailers, the state reached agreement with Sottera, Inc.,distributor of NJOY, prohibiting it from doing business in Oregon until local and national standards are met."
"Kroger said he offered to settle with Smoking Everywhere, but the company rebuffed his offer. The result was the attorney general's lawsuit."
Regarding the 3rd hand smoke theory...as Penn and Teller would say...pure BS. The phrase was coined by the weakest type of evidence known to mankind...a telephone survey. Even worse the questions asked were "loaded" so that most respondants would agree. That violates the protocol of conducting a survey...one must ask a "value free" question so that your subject feels no pressure to respond a certain way to prevent bias.
Most people are unaware that absolutely no scientific tests were performed to assess this residue even though the the survey results were presented as if the were tests performed.
Here is a summary article excerpt of how 3rd hand smoke came into existence:
"Winickoff's team found that this was the case. In a survey of more than 1,500 households, 95.4 percent of nonsmokers versus 84.1 percent of smokers agreed that second-hand smoke harms the health of children, and 65.2 percent of nonsmokers versus 43.3 percent of smokers believed that third-hand smoke harms children. Strict rules prohibiting smoke in the home were more prevalent among nonsmokers 88.4 percent versus 26.7 percent but among both smokers and non-smokers, participants who agreed that environmental smoke was harmful to children's health were more likely to have restrictions on smoking in their homes."
Third-hand Smoke: Another Reason To Quit Smoking
I can assure you that surveys or polls are not representative of the body of scientific research. Polls are opinions and may be interesting to understand how people perceive an given situation but should never be the foundation for the 3rd hand smoke theory. 8-o They are measuring beliefs not residue.
Sorry to rant but this type of BS really upsets me. People have been duped into thinking this was real science. To make matters worse...Now the 3rd hand smoke theory has been extended to vaping...8-o the world has gone crazy! end of rant...
Most people are unaware that absolutely no scientific tests were performed to assess this residue even though the the survey results were presented as if the were tests performed.
Here is a summary article excerpt of how 3rd hand smoke came into existence:
"Winickoff's team found that this was the case. In a survey of more than 1,500 households, 95.4 percent of nonsmokers versus 84.1 percent of smokers agreed that second-hand smoke harms the health of children, and 65.2 percent of nonsmokers versus 43.3 percent of smokers believed that third-hand smoke harms children. Strict rules prohibiting smoke in the home were more prevalent among nonsmokers 88.4 percent versus 26.7 percent but among both smokers and non-smokers, participants who agreed that environmental smoke was harmful to children's health were more likely to have restrictions on smoking in their homes."
Third-hand Smoke: Another Reason To Quit Smoking
I can assure you that surveys or polls are not representative of the body of scientific research. Polls are opinions and may be interesting to understand how people perceive an given situation but should never be the foundation for the 3rd hand smoke theory. 8-o They are measuring beliefs not residue.
Sorry to rant but this type of BS really upsets me. People have been duped into thinking this was real science. To make matters worse...Now the 3rd hand smoke theory has been extended to vaping...8-o the world has gone crazy! end of rant...
Ladyraj,,, this is getting under my skin, too. I'm a reasonable man and always try to listen to another persons point of view, accepting that there are certain choices that people will make that I wouldn't,,, yet allow them the freedom to make that choice. We've been pushed into corners as smokers for so long,,, now there's a safer alternative within our grasp, and this a$$hole has to deny it to us.
It's pretty clear that this guy has one ambition,,, to destroy smoking culture and he believes that Chantix is the holy grail to get people out of it. Nevermind that Chantix has actually killed some people and ecigs haven't. He needs to understand that nicotine, while not healthy in some ways, is a pleasure to the consumer,,, and that the burning leaf of the cigarette is the danger. He wants us to think that we're trading the burning leaf for plumes of antifreeze vapor,,,, That shi# isn't supposed to be there,,, how it got there,,, is a puzzling thing,,, but we're not inhaling antifreeze vapor!!
I'm not convinced that that one sample actually had DEG,,, but if it did, shame on those manufacture's. That can be regulated out, but to use this as a way to thwart the industry is murder, as surely as Mr Banzhaf wants us to believe the tobacco companies are doing to smokers.
I'm convinced in my heart that it's safer,,, and everyone I know can see the difference vaping has made in my life. I believe the claims these companies have made are more true than ASH's are.
If it's possible to make a safer alternative to smoking,,, it's a crime not to do it!!
It's pretty clear that this guy has one ambition,,, to destroy smoking culture and he believes that Chantix is the holy grail to get people out of it. Nevermind that Chantix has actually killed some people and ecigs haven't. He needs to understand that nicotine, while not healthy in some ways, is a pleasure to the consumer,,, and that the burning leaf of the cigarette is the danger. He wants us to think that we're trading the burning leaf for plumes of antifreeze vapor,,,, That shi# isn't supposed to be there,,, how it got there,,, is a puzzling thing,,, but we're not inhaling antifreeze vapor!!
I'm not convinced that that one sample actually had DEG,,, but if it did, shame on those manufacture's. That can be regulated out, but to use this as a way to thwart the industry is murder, as surely as Mr Banzhaf wants us to believe the tobacco companies are doing to smokers.
I'm convinced in my heart that it's safer,,, and everyone I know can see the difference vaping has made in my life. I believe the claims these companies have made are more true than ASH's are.
If it's possible to make a safer alternative to smoking,,, it's a crime not to do it!!
I agree with you Harmony. The shame is...once upon a time we were individuals who could make choices that others respected and after all, they were not their brother's keeper. I grew up in the era with concepts "of to each his own" and "existence of risk must be proved not alluded to". Science and human kindness/tolerance has been hijacked by a a construct called the "precautionary principle". This principle states that one must assume harm until harm is disproven. Rather backwards in logic, it's king of like saying someone's guilty until proven they are innocent. ASH and Public Health organizations use this principle to as a battering ram on the public. So many have bought into it. It's a shame, and I hope we can find a way to go back to rational principles once more.
Regarding the DEG, don't worry, it has been a filter adhesive in cigarettes for years and they are legal. Per Wiki:
"The U.S. Code of Federal Regulations allows no more than 0.2% of diethylene glycol in polyethylene glycol when the latter is used as a food additive.
Regarding the DEG, don't worry, it has been a filter adhesive in cigarettes for years and they are legal. Per Wiki:
"The U.S. Code of Federal Regulations allows no more than 0.2% of diethylene glycol in polyethylene glycol when the latter is used as a food additive.
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