IMO ONLY - Non-smokers that vape or are thinking of vaping ;/

[RosaJ]

When you make something "morally wrong" young adults who are predisposed to rebel are going to want to do it even more. If they have an interest in vaping, chances are they're considering smoking and we all know that even though smoking is illegal for minors, they still get them somewhere. So, I leave that judgment to the parents of under 18 or 21 year olds. They know their children better than I do. Personally if my child (not talking about 10 year olds) wants to vape and hasn't smoked, I would let them try my gear first. Believe me, the fiddling around with cartos, tanks, dripping, the expense, etc., will soon deter them.

I believe vape gear should not be sold freely to minors, I believe the responsibility rests on the parents and not on anyone else. If an adult (18 and over) who has never smoked wants to start vaping, well, there's really nothing any of us can do, is there?

 

[mostapha]

Not to disparage the OP, but I see no problem with non-smokers taking up vaping unless it eventually proves harmful……and even then, I think it's extremely unlikely that it's any more harmful than a lot of other activities people seem vaguely okay with.

 

[zuzette]

regarding "e cigs and not e lose weight..
"

regarding the technology as only viable for one purpose is short sighted.


assuming vaping really is less harmful than smoking and other substances noted elsewhere on the forum, why not "e lose weight"

on the insurance thread few want to see higher insurance rates for obesity, yet most agree obesity has huge health consequences.

imagine the boon an e fig would be if a doc prescribed 0 nic instead of surgery or medication that makes on sicker.

lets drop the smoking aspect. its contentious and too narrow.

 

[tnt56]

If they would have had "e cigs" 45 years ago, I wouldn't be in the condition I'm in now. Back when smoking was on every tv show, the Marlboro man was "cool". Back when tv was black and white and it was a great thing to show every one drinking and smoking during prime time, but a married couple still had to sleep in seperate beds. GEEEES I'm old.

 

[X P3 Flight Engineer]

When you make something "morally wrong" young adults who are predisposed to rebel are going to want to do it even more. If they have an interest in vaping, chances are they're considering smoking and we all know that even though smoking is illegal for minors, they still get them somewhere. So, I leave that judgment to the parents of under 18 or 21 year olds. They know their children better than I do. Personally if my child (not talking about 10 year olds) wants to vape and hasn't smoked, I would let them try my gear first. Believe me, the fiddling around with cartos, tanks, dripping, the expense, etc., will soon deter them.

I believe vape gear should not be sold freely to minors, I believe the responsibility rests on the parents and not on anyone else. If an adult (18 and over) who has never smoked wants to start vaping, well, there's really nothing any of us can do, is there?

Silghtly off topic, but...
It's odd how we assume these things like "smoking is illegal for minors" to be true. Smoking has never been illegal for minors. It is not illegal for minors to posses cigarettes. If you want to follow the logic though, it is illegal for a minor (or anyone) to posses cigarettes that the tax has not been paid on! That says a lot about the priorities of the people looking after our well being. Nobody is going to want vaping to be illegal. They will want it to be illegal to vape without paying outrageous taxes!

Back on topic...
I first thought it would be Great for non-smokers to vape and enjoy the flavors. Sober second thoughts made me realize that it would not be "harm reduction" for them, it would be increased harm because it would be going into their lungs. It's a hard call about vaping rather than starting to smoke, since it would be impossible to determine who would have started smoking. It is similar to trying to state how many accidents something has prevented. Since the accidents never happened, who knows if they would have?

I do know for certain that vaping has benefited me. I recommend it to other smokers, not because I believe it to be harmless, but because I know that smoking is definitely harming them. I make friends who are quitting smoking, by what ever method, promise me that if they have extreme cravings that they will use e-cigs rather than a cigarette.

 

[DC2]

If they could prove that vaping zero nicotine was truly harmless, then I wouldn't care who started doing it.
But if they could prove that, then nobody including the FDA would be trying to stop us either.

So as long as we don't know exactly how safe vaping is, these are issues that do concern all of us.

Personally, I think nearly all opinions on this subject are valid...
--This is definitely ammunition that electronic cigarette opponents would like to be able to use against us
--Truth and common sense often don't determine outcomes
--However it is not anyone else's business what legal activities an adult chooses to enjoy
--And the fact that children may use something is not a valid excuse to prevent access by adults
--And there are indeed a number of other valid uses for an electronic cigarette besides quitting smoking

Electronic cigarettes use by non-smokers is not a black and white issue at the present time.
And never will be unless they are proven to be relatively harmless.

And this is not even getting into someone purposely starting to use nicotine for certain health reasons.

 

[redddog]

I'm way less worried about the use of Nicotine (at the small level I use it at w/6mg juice) than I am about the effect that PG/VG and the flavorings have on my lungs when I vape.

I have parkinsons AND alzheimers in my family. If anything for me, the Nic is a benefit. I just don't want to be f'ing up my lungs with the other stuff.

 

[CommaHolly]

--And the fact that children may use something is not a valid excuse to prevent access by adults

(snipped for clarity)

isn't this the excuse they used to take away flavored cigarettes except menthol?

 

[izdalion]

Not to disparage the OP, but I see no problem with non-smokers taking up vaping unless it eventually proves harmful……and even then, I think it's extremely unlikely that it's any more harmful than a lot of other activities people seem vaguely okay with.

No problems here Everyone has a opinion and I am happy to hear each one of them. I will never say to someone your totally wrong or you should think this way and not that way. I don't want anyone to think I started this to force my views I just felt it needed to be said for me personally lol

 

[X P3 Flight Engineer]

--And the fact that children may use something is not a valid excuse to prevent access by adults

(snipped for clarity)

isn't this the excuse they used to take away flavored cigarettes except menthol?

"The State must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."

— Adolf Hitler, “Mein Kampf”

Just sayin..

 

[CommaHolly]

"The State must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."

— Adolf Hitler, “Mein Kampf”

Just sayin..

Oh, I agree,,,,,,totally,,,,,,,

 

[izdalion]

regarding "e cigs and not e lose weight..
"

regarding the technology as only viable for one purpose is short sighted.


assuming vaping really is less harmful than smoking and other substances noted elsewhere on the forum, why not "e lose weight"

on the insurance thread few want to see higher insurance rates for obesity, yet most agree obesity has huge health consequences.

imagine the boon an e fig would be if a doc prescribed 0 nic instead of surgery or medication that makes on sicker.

lets drop the smoking aspect. its contentious and too narrow.

I totally understand where your coming from and you have a valid point IMO ecigs will not help obesity and end up being one of them "slim fast diet" fads. Why do I say that because it hasn't worked for me hahahaha
Besides that I think if it's working for the intended purpose why complicate it and add more unsubstantial uses. We treat everything like there prescription drugs and try to find uses for it before it's approved for the intended purpose.

 

[mostapha]

If they could prove that vaping zero nicotine was truly harmless, then I wouldn't care who started doing it.
But if they could prove that, then nobody including the FDA would be trying to stop us either.

I wouldn't count on that. Start reading up on other controlled substances if you want to know why I think that.

it is not anyone else's business what legal activities an adult chooses to enjoy

Amen. Although, I'd go a bit further than that and say that there are a lot of other illegal activities that cause so much less harm to individuals and society than legal ones (alcohol and smoking come to mind) that I don't believe legality should be used to decide whether or not an activity is moral.

Where legality and morality happen to coincide, that's great. But there are a lot of realms where they don't.

isn't this the excuse they used to take away flavored cigarettes except menthol?

The funny thing about that legislation is that it didn't actually stop children from smoking. It stopped some sorrostitutes from smoking "only at parties", and it made cloves taste better since they had to actually use clove instead of flavoring syrup.

No problems here

Awesome. I mean……my belief that there's no problem with people starting vaping is also partly because of all the reasons I started smoking. It was a social thing. It was a nervous thing. It legitimizes your presence in places you might otherwise feel uncomfortable. It spawns conversations. It serves as an often necessary break from the drudgery of your day.

The thing is that it seems almost undeniable that vaping is–at the very least–no more harmful than smoking. And all of those "benefits" apply at least as well to vaping as they ever did to smoking. The only downside is that it's more complicated and fiddly……and, I guess, the startup cost (if you're only looking at the short term). And, I guess there's the minute possibility of a catastrophic battery failure……but then I look around at the dozen or so devices and appliances I can see in my apartment that will explode under the right circumstances and I stop caring.

Do you have any idea how catastrophically water heaters can fail?

 

[redddog]

...The only downside is that it's more complicated and fiddly……and, I guess, the startup cost (if you're only looking at the short term). And, I guess there's the minute possibility of a catastrophic battery failure....

Or that long term exposure to PG/VG/flavorings through inhalation does something really f'ed up to your lungs.

I don't believe that's the case but no one really knows. That's the problem with this and what gives the anti-vaping community their ammo. No one yet knows anything about the long-term effects of vaping on the respiratory system. We can only guess and reduce probabilities by process of elimination.

I fully expect there to be scientific evidence in support of vaping that FULLY vindicates it's supposed dangers, but until then, we really don't totally know.

 

[mostapha]

My official opinion: meh.

AFAIK, you smell (and inhale) just about all of the flavorings in food and drinks. PG is completely harmless and is used in inhaled medications. VG is the unknown to me, but I'm just plain not worried. The exposure is obviously higher than most people get, but honestly……I think the chances of it having an effect are pretty damn small.

 

[Racehorse]

I'm way less worried about the use of Nicotine (at the small level I use it at w/6mg juice) than I am about the effect that PG/VG and the flavorings have on my lungs when I vape.

I'm not at all concerned about nicotine. Never really was. It's too bad that the "delivery system" available to us when I started, back in the dark ages of time, was combustible analogs.

Well actually, I had some major surgery and nicotine isn't good when you need a lot of staples and stitches. My surgeon wouldn't even let me wear a patch! I had to go cold turkey for 4-6 weeks. So I figureed, just quit. Which I did. For 5 years. Then went back to analogs. IF ONLY vaping had existed then, I would have just vaped.

I bet someday they will find something to suspend nic in that can produce clouds, that isn't in any way shape or form possibly harmful. Just can't imagine what that is.

For now, I look around my cabin and the amount of dust mites I'm breathing in will surely kill me. I better get back to work!

 

[DC2]

AFAIK, you smell (and inhale) just about all of the flavorings in food and drinks.

Well, yes, but we are inhaling them in far greater quantities.

An additional concern is that our flavorings are heated to higher temperatures.
That has the potential to change the chemical makeup, with results that are not known.

But then again, the effects of inhaling them at room temperature is not known either, really.

On the other hand, bakers use a fair amount of flavorings if I am not mistaken.
And they heat them and breathe the vapor, with no known ill effects.

I guess my point is, flavorings are one of the unknowns.

 

[mostapha]

Well, yes, but we are inhaling them in far greater quantities.

An additional concern is that our flavorings are heated to higher temperatures.
That has the potential to change the chemical makeup, with results that are not known.

But then again, the effects of inhaling them at room temperature is not known either, really.

On the other hand, bakers use a fair amount of flavorings if I am not mistaken.
And they heat them and breathe the vapor, with no known ill effects.

I guess my point is, flavorings are one of the unknowns.

You're right. I just don't care. I don't see how it can be worse than cigarettes. Other people have commented independently that I run, cycle, and climb stairs better than I did when I was smoking. I don't cough as much. My mild sleep apnea is gone. I smell better. And I have more fun on vaping forums and window shopping online than I ever did with anything related to smoking.

I really don't care if the flavorings are bad. If I eventually have to, I'll vape unflavored.

 

[eagarcia123]

for the most part, I would discourage non smokers from vaping. just like many others on ecf, I started vaping because it is a safer and inexpensive alternative to smoking tobacco related products. if you dont smoke at all, why start vaping? youre just adding an unnessary budget to a problem you dont have which is smoking

 

[username1970]

Even if vaping were proven to be 100% harmless as it becomes more popular there will be a backlash and some people will seek to put restrictions on it.

Some will just want clear laws keeping it away from minors, but this will give it a forbidden fruit quality which will make it more attractive to some minors.

As more minors are found to be circumventing the age limit some people will demand that flavors that "make it attractive to children" be eliminated just as they did with conventional cigarettes.

Some people are just against any type of non-life-sustaining substance use and will argue against spreading a more attractive means of ingesting nicotine "just when we were having some success at reducing smoking".

Aren't there places that already prohibit vaping?

Has anyone dared use an e-cig in a courtroom? I'd love to see someone with the audacity to attempt that and see what fury it unleashes from a judge.